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Originally Posted by qwerrecd42
Originally Posted by Tuco
Circumstantial at best. The only reason patch 4 wasn’t released concurrently to the panel (as by their own admission it was supposed to) is that they noticed some annoying last minute bug and delayed it.

Did they ever tell us what that bug was?
Not really. Then again it's not like they ever told us anything about how the production is going, so there's that.


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HA. Very true.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Yea, and thats just icing on the cake on whats already there and to come...They could call it BG3 : Wrath of the righteous and people would be incredibly excited. It actually feels like a natural progression of the prior games.

What about sidequests, though? From what Hikari said, it's quite linear, so very dissimilar in structure to BG1&2, which thrived on sidequests and exploration. Still, I'm very excited to play Pathfinder (both Kingmaker and WotR) and whatever Owlcat cooks up next.

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
You can tell the developers are big fans of the original Black isle games smile.

BioWare, actually, Black Isle (proto-Obsidian)/Interplay just published it. They made Fallout 1&2, Dark Alliance II, Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale. Then went on to bankrupt and so the planned third instalments to BG, BG:DA and FO were not done by them. Sadly.

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
If Larian does not go FULL ON D^D 5th tactical depth + rated R gritty Baldurs gate atmosphere then they are screwed. DOS2 game system, pretty faces and cinematics, corny sex scenes, and <a few good unlikable companions> will not save BG3 in the long run. They are trying to market this to WAY TOO MANY people and systems before actually designing a great RPG PC game.

Yep. Though "gritty" isn't really how I'd describe BG; it was dark and serious and epic and funny in perfect proportions, but from I see BG3's "dark" and "funny" is different than BG1&2's in tone/execution. Larian-brand humour?

Originally Posted by Vallis
Was it not obvious from the start, I mean I already saw this when I was introduced to the ''totally not dorian pavus'', sassy vampire character of Astarion who seemed to be just created to bring over all of the Bioware/Inquisition fans desperate for another DAI type experience in Bioware's decline. And that worked as i've seen tons of articles from the bio fans making those comparisons, i've seen a lot of the artist making fanart for the character say things like ''I don't know what BG3 is but I love astarion'', ''I never played this game but I love vampire sass'' lmao. My fear is that, as someone else posted on the subreddit, they'll focus too much on catering to these ''new fans'' posting on their social medias, and forget to make the game they initially set out to make.

You're right and I wish I saw that and questioned things before getting incredibly hyped and happy about the game for almost a year. It does seem to primarily cater to "modern BioWare fans" in addition to D:OS fans.

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Originally Posted by Vallis
Was it not obvious from the start, I mean I already saw this when I was introduced to the ''totally not dorian pavus'', sassy vampire character of Astarion who seemed to be just created to bring over all of the Bioware/Inquisition fans desperate for another DAI type experience in Bioware's decline. And that worked as i've seen tons of articles from the bio fans making those comparisons, i've seen a lot of the artist making fanart for the character say things like ''I don't know what BG3 is but I love astarion'', ''I never played this game but I love vampire sass'' lmao. My fear is that, as someone else posted on the subreddit, they'll focus too much on catering to these ''new fans'' posting on their social medias, and forget to make the game they initially set out to make.

But they are not even close to each other... Except for arrogance, but Astarion is able to manipulate. Although I love the characters of this author (for example Fenris), but Dorian story was surprisingly boring. Although the most terrible thing that happened in DAI is Cole. Especially if you read a book about him before the game. Astarion is generally compared to many characters, but in fact, at this stage, he does not look like any of these.

Evil characters are rarely found ^ ^ in games. God Bless Tyranny

Astarion has a good design, but his writing is significantly different from Bioware characters. And as long as this is the case, I don't see anything wrong with the fact that some character visually attracts new people.


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Back then, i really enjoyed the DOS2 update videos, they were usually around 10-15 mins, on-point, included some silly but enjoyable humour, they were more humble than epic which i liked more personally, they gave interesting sneak peeks into development (they were usually recorded in one of the offices, which would be hard to do now due to covid) and provided an in-general overview of new additions/changes. They were also accompanied with patch notes in writing.

Im not against PFH-s but have to say so far i enjoyed them less then larian's old update videos (probably i would've enjoyed them better without the technical difficulties and if they are a little shorter overall). I prefer the type of update they did for patch3, tbh.

Anyhow, either via a new PFH or a community update, im really looking forward to what patch 5 contains as i was excited when swen said it will focus on features. It is a good game already but some of the core features definitely can use some improvement/overhaul so i will be happy either way if they can improve on gameplay. If they really address the feedback a lot of people on these forums and on reddit gave i can live with any type of presentation format they use.

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I hate to be a buzzkill but I think wrath of the righteous is seriously lacking in the story department. From the little discussion I had with other people about it, it seems like it is because of a weak source material, which honestly is not a good excuse. The companion cast of this game is probably the best I've seen in years, but still, a weak story seriously drag this game down


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Originally Posted by Vallis
Was it not obvious from the start, I mean I already saw this when I was introduced to the ''totally not dorian pavus'', sassy vampire character of Astarion who seemed to be just created to bring over all of the Bioware/Inquisition fans desperate for another DAI type experience in Bioware's decline. And that worked as i've seen tons of articles from the bio fans making those comparisons, i've seen a lot of the artist making fanart for the character say things like ''I don't know what BG3 is but I love astarion'', ''I never played this game but I love vampire sass'' lmao. My fear is that, as someone else posted on the subreddit, they'll focus too much on catering to these ''new fans'' posting on their social medias, and forget to make the game they initially set out to make.

Ok so having just re-played DA:I - aside from the sassy irreverent attitude, Astarion is not that similar to Dorian at all... I agree with Nyloth here. He is not the same sort of character.
(Although I don't quite understand the people who claim to love Astarion and write fanfic etc about him without ever having played BG3, but whatever floats their boat I suppose!)

Also, weren't the original BG games created by Bioware? So what's wrong with having Bioware/Dragon Age fans become Larian/BG3 fans, exactly?

There is no One True Pathway to this game...
Some people arrive here with a DnD background, some have played Larian games before, some have played the original BG games, some just enjoy RPGs in general, such as Dragon Age series, etc, and some people are trying this sort of game for the first time ever.

Larian are still "making the game they initially set out to make". We don't even know what is in the rest of the game yet! We can only judge by what we've seen so far, and on the verge of a big patch that's likely going to change things.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by qwerrecd42
Originally Posted by Tuco
Circumstantial at best. The only reason patch 4 wasn’t released concurrently to the panel (as by their own admission it was supposed to) is that they noticed some annoying last minute bug and delayed it.

Did they ever tell us what that bug was?
Not really. Then again it's not like they ever told us anything about how the production is going, so there's that.

Do they need to? Larian communication issues aside, software bugs tend to be frustrating, annoying and difficult to pin down 99% of the time - but probably only interesting to the game's programmers.

Unless it's some very entertaining bug, like this one:
https://twitter.com/_taylorswope/status/1205252714680045568

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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by qwerrecd42
Originally Posted by Tuco
Circumstantial at best. The only reason patch 4 wasn’t released concurrently to the panel (as by their own admission it was supposed to) is that they noticed some annoying last minute bug and delayed it.

Did they ever tell us what that bug was?
Not really. Then again it's not like they ever told us anything about how the production is going, so there's that.

Do they need to? Larian communication issues aside, software bugs tend to be frustrating, annoying and difficult to pin down 99% of the time - but probably only interesting to the game's programmers.

Unless it's some very entertaining bug, like this one:
https://twitter.com/_taylorswope/status/1205252714680045568

That's true. Underestimating the amount of manpower needed to fix a single but important bug can be insane sometimes.

About the bug you linked -> Holy shit. Reminds me of a certain terminal we tried to fix. I had 15 people from 2 different countries investigating the mysterious case of a vending machine not being able to sell coca-cola. Like everything else worked but if a cola can was placed it wouldn't work most of the time( sometimes it would).

We checked the software code endless times, the hardware was replaced and...nothing. No coca cola in that particular building in UK for whatever reason. 1 month of 15 people working a few hours per day only on that issue to try to locate the bug.

Until we eventually figured out the country was the issue. We had to pretend that vending machine is in France and all of a sudden it worked. Why? Considering exactly the same machine worked if placed anywhere else but in that building? God help me I don't know.

The level of complexity of software/ hardware interactions reach abysmal level sometimes. Even in games.

Last edited by virion; 01/07/21 12:30 PM.

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Originally Posted by Vallis
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by Ixal
This is imo how to promote new features
(big video)



omg i want to play this so bad -.-*

Yea, and thats just icing on the cake on whats already there and to come...They could call it BG3 : Wrath of the righteous and people would be incredibly excited. It actually feels like a natural progression of the prior games. You can tell the developers are big fans of the original Black isle games smile.
If Larian does not go FULL ON D^D 5th tactical depth + rated R gritty Baldurs gate atmosphere then they are screwed. DOS2 game system, pretty faces and cinematics, corny sex scenes, and <a few good unlikable companions> will not save BG3 in the long run. They are trying to market this to WAY TOO MANY people and systems before actually designing a great RPG PC game.

Was it not obvious from the start, I mean I already saw this when I was introduced to the ''totally not dorian pavus'', sassy vampire character of Astarion who seemed to be just created to bring over all of the Bioware/Inquisition fans desperate for another DAI type experience in Bioware's decline. And that worked as i've seen tons of articles from the bio fans making those comparisons, i've seen a lot of the artist making fanart for the character say things like ''I don't know what BG3 is but I love astarion'', ''I never played this game but I love vampire sass'' lmao. My fear is that, as someone else posted on the subreddit, they'll focus too much on catering to these ''new fans'' posting on their social medias, and forget to make the game they initially set out to make.

it's called - I don't know what it is. but. first, it's a vampire. secondly, you can build your advertising on this. because vampires are popular in certain communities. as a result, advertising works both for the artist and for the original product smile

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Originally Posted by virion
<snip> Reminds me of a certain terminal we tried to fix. I had 15 people from 2 different countries investigating the mysterious case of a vending machine not being able to sell coca-cola. Like everything else worked but if a cola can was placed it wouldn't work most of the time( sometimes it would).

We checked the software code endless times, the hardware was replaced and...nothing. No coca cola in that particular building in UK for whatever reason. 1 month of 15 people working a few hours per day only on that issue to try to locate the bug.

Until we eventually figured out the country was the issue. We had to pretend that vending machine is in France and all of a sudden it worked. Why? Considering exactly the same machine worked if placed anywhere else but in that building? God help me I don't know.

As someone who studied IT, I am not sure whenever I am supposed to laugh or cry at that. But oh god, is the moral of the story relatable. Software and coding in general can be REALLY messy to work with... :'] It is like when you're setting up a computer from scratch - SOMETHING is not going to work and one will have to troubleshoot for hours before the computer works as intended.

And then we have the legendary example - something is acting up with your computer and you troubleshoot the issues. No software resets or system reset works, so you pin it down to a hardware issue. Every single symptom points at one particular hardware component, so you have that particular component replaced. The computer is still acting up so you troubleshoot again, and find some overlapping symptoms for another component and replace it. :'D And so it goes until you've replaced each and every component in your entire hardware setup because the issue is ALWAYS due to the very last component that is replaced. :']

Last edited by Dez; 01/07/21 01:43 PM.

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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Do they need to?
What? Publicly explain what bugs they were experiencing? I wouldn't really expect them to.
Communicate better about what they are doing in general? It wouldn't hurt a bit, frankly.


Originally Posted by virion
That's true. Underestimating the amount of manpower needed to fix a single but important bug can be insane sometimes. .
No one is underestimating anything. I made no complaint about how long it took them to fix the bug.
Especially because most of the times the hardest part of fixing one is understanding WHAT is actually causing it.

EDIT- Well, that twitter chain proves the point wonderfully, I'd say.

Last edited by Tuco; 01/07/21 01:53 PM.

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Originally Posted by Dez
Originally Posted by virion
<snip> Reminds me of a certain terminal we tried to fix. I had 15 people from 2 different countries investigating the mysterious case of a vending machine not being able to sell coca-cola. Like everything else worked but if a cola can was placed it wouldn't work most of the time( sometimes it would).

We checked the software code endless times, the hardware was replaced and...nothing. No coca cola in that particular building in UK for whatever reason. 1 month of 15 people working a few hours per day only on that issue to try to locate the bug.

Until we eventually figured out the country was the issue. We had to pretend that vending machine is in France and all of a sudden it worked. Why? Considering exactly the same machine worked if placed anywhere else but in that building? God help me I don't know.

As someone who studied IT, I am not sure whenever I am supposed to laugh or cry at that. But oh god, is the moral of the story relatable. Software and coding in general can be REALLY messy to work with... :'] It is like when you're setting up a computer from scratch - SOMETHING is not going to work and one will have to troubleshoot for hours before the computer works as intended.

And then we have the legendary example - something is acting up with your computer and you troubleshoot the issues. No software resets or system reset works, so you pin it down to a hardware issue. Every single symptom points at one particular hardware component, so you have that particular component replaced. The computer is still acting up so you troubleshoot again, and find some overlapping symptoms for another component and replace it. :'D And so it goes until you've replaced each and every component in your entire hardware setup because the issue is ALWAYS due to the very last component that is replaced. :']

Jesus. As they say the biggest problem is not when something doesn't work. The problem is when it works and it shouln't.


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Originally Posted by Abits
I hate to be a buzzkill but I think wrath of the righteous is seriously lacking in the story department. From the little discussion I had with other people about it, it seems like it is because of a weak source material, which honestly is not a good excuse. The companion cast of this game is probably the best I've seen in years, but still, a weak story seriously drag this game down

To many people, a great companion cast will elevate the story beyond how it’d be normally received. Like DAO and DAI would be pretty generic saving the world stories if it weren’t for the twists the companions in both games brought to the table, for instance. That’s all.

On the topic of Dorian and Astarion, WotR’s Daeran is much closer to Dorian in that he has actual political ability/connections to the nobility, primary difference being he isn’t afraid to use it to encourage you to ignore and snub the useless nobles. And he has little concept of personal decency either. He’s not in this to please other people.

Wenduag would be closer to an Astarion type, and though I’ve never played with her since I usually go for Lann, she supposedly has a lot more depth than she appears at first glance.

Like I see people describe her as someone that worships people and beings of great power in the hopes of attaining it herself, but she is actually doing it to try to elevate her cursed mongrelmen in a super roundabout way. She will also support anyone seeking the same thing alongside her, and the evil part is mostly about quickly deciding to kill anyone who she perceives as getting in her way, including former friends. She can be ruthlessly intelligent, but only measures people based on how much of a threat they can be.

(Mild spoiler interaction with another party member below.)

Some have said she outright warns you about how dangerous Ember is if she’s present at the time Ember joins the party. And she is apparently the ONLY party member that elicits that kind of response from Wenduag upon potentially joining. The rest of the cast just see her as a little girl that doesn’t belong on the battlefield otherwise, questioning you about taking her into the party.

Wenduag is probably correct, Ember is probably the most dangerous Neutral Good character I’ve ever seen in a really unusual way from a writing standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Vallis
Was it not obvious from the start, I mean I already saw this when I was introduced to the ''totally not dorian pavus'', sassy vampire character of Astarion who seemed to be just created to bring over all of the Bioware/Inquisition fans desperate for another DAI type experience in Bioware's decline. And that worked as i've seen tons of articles from the bio fans making those comparisons, i've seen a lot of the artist making fanart for the character say things like ''I don't know what BG3 is but I love astarion'', ''I never played this game but I love vampire sass'' lmao. My fear is that, as someone else posted on the subreddit, they'll focus too much on catering to these ''new fans'' posting on their social medias, and forget to make the game they initially set out to make.

First BG3 will outsell WoTR - probably by a significant margin. If we were allowed to bet on that I would. Nothing against WoTR - I WILL be playing it myself. I love the work of Owlcat games but they are catering to a more niche audience.

Bg3 catering to a broader audience is not a detriment. There is too much of this player-ownership mentality that demands the exclusion of anything that doesn't specifically cater to ourselves. I would invite you to revisit those instincts as they don't bring you anything but frustration.

Is Astarion written for me? Nope, I am more a Shadowheart type- but we can hang. A smart company will cast a wide net to create something for everyone. WoTC did that with 5e, and it has resulted in massive sales - with 5e outselling every other RPG game out there and bringing in a highly inclusive and diverse audience. The Livestream D&D groups out there are the model of diversity - and it really takes so little except saying "Hey, you have a place here too!"

And this isn't about being "woke" or "SJW" whatever those terms mean. Its about wanting to hang around interesting groups of people that are not like me and realize we have common ground.


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I don’t feel the diversity argument really works with BG3’s cast as they are currently designed or written, but maybe the writing might surprise me later. The more cynical side of me is inclined to think the current party members are the way they are not actually because of any evil/neutral alignment testing, but because they are remarkably close in personality to the DOS2 companions, just with way more to say. But it does make sense, it’s a lot easier to do something you already have extensive experience in.

And like you, I’m more of a Shadowheart person, but maybe because she’s the only party member right now who doesn’t appear to worship her personal ego. There’s a reason why the clamoring for other characters to join the party like Alfira (non-edgy good aligned tiefling) and Halsin (buff male elf druid) are far louder than anything similar I’ve ever seen from any other game.

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PFH3 in one week... (Larian's Discord)
Patch in ..?

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Whoever said the interactivity for the panel will be "twitch plays" called it right according to the image in the tweet.

More power to whoever enjoys watching a twitch plays stream.

Edit:

Would be cool if they entirely separated the entertainment and information aspects completely, rather than mashing them together in panels, just have the panels as pure entertainment and the patch notes as pure info, less memes.

I don't think the current approach does either one well as it stands.

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Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
Whoever said the interactivity for the panel will be "twitch plays" called it right according to the image in the tweet.

More power to whoever enjoys watching a twitch plays stream.

Maybe this can work out in a positive, only have them Shove and Throw...

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