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Tuco Offline OP
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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Oh and the original question has been answered in the dataming thread.

Uh, no, I'd argue that it hasn't.
Just because a certain thing can happen, it doesn't mean it's going to retroactively deny everything else the game set up to that point.

Last edited by Tuco; 11/11/20 08:27 PM.

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Maybe they should Dead Rising it. You've a week to get the tadpole out or you die, if Gale dies and you don't revive him within two days he nukes the region, if you don't stop the Mind Flayer or Absolute plot within 2 weeks the world is destroyed/consumed/conquered.

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Point 1 = The arguement that it's Early Access is a valid arguement. Since the game itself isn't complete then many aspects of the game are incomplete. Including anything they have planned for Gale, and the other Origin Characters, the plot, the story etc is incomplete. By the fact that it's incomplete means the part of nukeGale 3.0 hasn't been implemented, or is yet to be implemented.

Point 2 = I agree with several of OP's points. Mostly about how most video games have dropped the ball when it comes to consequences for ones actions. Yet I can see it's do to the fact many would stop playing games that force you to confront the consequences of ones actions. Therefore hurting the sale of a companies games. This is a sad fact, that people get so butt hurt and seek to blame the gaming company for their own actions.

Point 3 = much of what is said though it is speculation on the part of OP will sadly probably come about. Larian won't implement consequences for actions, and if they do the consequences will be rather pathetic. Kill mob A and have a level 2 rabbit come after you. Oh the fear it will induce.

As a harcore gamer who plays every game with permadeath I want to actually be challenged, want to feel the impact of my choices. If I kill Lord Snotsley I expect to have his family send out capable assassins, bounty hunters, etc after me. This is one thing that Skyrim in ways did right, by having the Dark Brotherhood come after you. Yet on that note, even if you were stealthy, noone else around, and succeeded your thiefing you had people come after you.

It would be a far better game if Larian added consequences for such things as leaving Gale to die for several days, but also having those consequences make sense. If you weren't caught stealing don't send thugs out after you. If noone saw you kill Lord Snotsley don't send out assassins. If you leave Gale dead for several days, he explodes nuking the hell out of the area. Now you have to deal with the fallout. Welcome to New Fauroen. It would also be far smarter if his quest wasn't behind a friend wall, this makes no sense. If he believes he needs artifacts to sustain himself or his power then he wouldn't give 2 shits if you were his friend or not. He'd be like 'BTW if I don't get this and that. I'll explode and your in the radius.' So you now realize it's not a hp (his problem) but a yp (your problem).

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- Starting the main story with a few days time limit, then ignore it. It is not justified, it is just a "different" tadpole.
Fallout had 100 days time limit, which could be extended by 100 days with the water caravan, it made sense.

- Few days time limit is only enough for a side quest not for main stories.

- I think the time limit is okay, but if the game has no concept of time, that causes the inconsistency. Non of the areas are changing, all of them have the same light effect all of the areas are static, no clock.

- I think it would be okay if Gale would be a bomb, but a nuke... that is just not a fantasy story.. That is something else.



Last edited by Minsc1122; 11/11/20 11:52 PM.
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Honestly I don't care for time limits for most things, I was making the comment as an extreme solution. It made sense in Dead Rising and it could make sense for quests and can even improve them since it adds urgency. The main problem with Gale is that he's a walking fail state, if he dies and isn't revived he's suppose to, from his own description, go nuclear (scale of explosion is described as city sized) if they enforce that then you fail the game if you don't revive him, which can be annoying. I'd also add that his detonation looks like it would result in the land being soaking in some form of necrotic energy going off his death state. Another issue is that considering they were thinking of making your group permanent when you get to the tower that means you can have a walking bomb roaming about if he wasn't with you. That could make for an interesting quest in the later acts or it could be writing problem though we can't say anything on that. Consequences for doing something in a quest can add a great deal of value, however Gale is a fail state rather than a consequence, if Larian were to act on what we've been told so far.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Riandor

Not that that should mean that we shouldn’t criticise or publish our thoughts, but your negativity here is just as unfounded as my optimism. So where does that leave us?!

I guess it leaves us with a bet I'm going to win with zero effort?

Also, I wish people could stop being unnecessarily over-defensive.
Not all criticism is an attempt to shit on the game and the studio working on it, and you guys aren't doing to the production ANY favor by blindly shielding it from critics.

The entire point on giving feedback in EA is pointing NOW the things we don't like or we find unconvincing so that they could (eventually) be fixed.

I could say I wish people would stop being so over critical and you would argue you’re not, nor am I defensive.

All I’m saying is you believe it won’t get sorted and will stay as is, I’m saying we can’t know, but yeah, it could well do.

We both agree it can’t stay as is, we’re only arguing here as to whether it will and how it should change. Suggestions have been given, up to Larian to respond. I think we both hope I’m more right than you! Lol.

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Okay, I've figured it out.

The tadpole is supposed be changing us, it's not. The druids are supposed to finish their ritual any time now, they never finish it. The goblins are supposed to come attack, they never do (on their own, without your assistance). Gale is supposed to become a nuke, he doesn't.

And yet, we are resting again and again, presumably spending many hours doing so. Yet none of these events advance.

Why?

TIME IS NOT PASSING.

Yeah, the only logical conclusion is that time spent in the camp is not actually passing any time in the world. Maybe it IS an extradimensional space, a pocket plane, or the like. Maybe it's in a time distortion field of some kind. I mean, we get there through some weird teleporter runes, and it is clearly not IN the actual game world that we can explore.

So that's the canon I'm going with. When I rest, no time is actually passing. Makes everything else make sense.

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Tuco Offline OP
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Except you CAN miss events because time is passing when you rest. I even posted a list on this thread.


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Maybe just a little bit of time is passing. Like 1/10th the normal time flow.

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Originally Posted by clavis
Point 1 = The arguement that it's Early Access is a valid arguement. Since the game itself isn't complete then many aspects of the game are incomplete. Including anything they have planned for Gale, and the other Origin Characters, the plot, the story etc is incomplete. By the fact that it's incomplete means the part of nukeGale 3.0 hasn't been implemented, or is yet to be implemented.


The reason it's not a valid argument is because it's because the game is in EA and not yet complete that we should bring things up now before it is finished, during development. This is what EA is for. This is the point of feedback.

If Galenuke has been planned and just not yet implemented then there's no issue. If Galenuke hasn't been planned to ever be implemented then now is the time we're supposed to give feedback and say "Not having Galenuke is unfun, be consistent with your own narrative" so that we do what we can to make them add Galenuke before the game goes gold.


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Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by clavis
Point 1 = The arguement that it's Early Access is a valid arguement. Since the game itself isn't complete then many aspects of the game are incomplete. Including anything they have planned for Gale, and the other Origin Characters, the plot, the story etc is incomplete. By the fact that it's incomplete means the part of nukeGale 3.0 hasn't been implemented, or is yet to be implemented.

The reason it's not a valid argument is because it's because the game is in EA and not yet complete that we should bring things up now before it is finished, during development. This is what EA is for. This is the point of feedback.

If Galenuke has been planned and just not yet implemented then there's no issue. If Galenuke hasn't been planned to ever be implemented then now is the time we're supposed to give feedback and say "Not having Galenuke is unfun, be consistent with your own narrative" so that we do what we can to make them add Galenuke before the game goes gold.
"A man after my own heart".
not sure how did I lost track of this thread and of this perfectly reasonable last post.

Still, this is not why I'm here now.
Two months later I crossed a guy on the Steam forums that implied that this has been fixed and that now letting Gale die and resting for few days without saving him leads to a game over.
I'm not sure if he put the theory to the test or if he just took the game's narration for granted.

I'm here to ask confirmation, since I haven't completed a new playthrough since Patch 3 released: did anyone test if they actually fix this?


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Originally Posted by Tuco
Except you CAN miss events because time is passing when you rest. I even posted a list on this thread.

Or time stands still when you camp, yet you can still miss events because time does NOT stand still when you are out and about doing things outside of camp.

And of course, while you are intrepid adventurers ready to face the worst, you are scared of the dark and run to your timeless camp every day before dark, and don't come back out until morning.

Now we just need to figure out why being in the dark of the underdark doesn't scare you.

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Originally Posted by Anfindel
Originally Posted by Tuco
Except you CAN miss events because time is passing when you rest. I even posted a list on this thread.

Or time stands still when you camp, yet you can still miss events because time does NOT stand still when you are out and about doing things outside of camp.

And of course, while you are intrepid adventurers ready to face the worst, you are scared of the dark and run to your timeless camp every day before dark, and don't come back out until morning.

Now we just need to figure out why being in the dark of the underdark doesn't scare you.

Was this from goosebumps or something?

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Interesting thread. I'd tend to agree with the OP's points; narratively there are a lot of issues with the storyline in general at present.

My overriding concern is that it is symptomatic of having these exceptional and at times convoluted companion backstories which seem at times to overshadow the main protagonist's own story. I always felt the companions in BG2 had stories which for the most part were interesting enough and embellished the main storyline without taking over but some of these Origins companions behave like a bunch of social media influencers utterly desperate for attention and urgency.

What I loved about that miserable dwarf Korgan in BG2 was that he just upped sticks if your choices didn't align with his and that could happen fairly promptly and inconveniently, leaving you a party member down. Annoying as it was the first time he left my party, I respected that because it felt real and he made his intentions clear; he didn't hang around waiting to see if the main PC would follow his cause. There were consequences is what I am trying to say. All the inferred consequences in BG3 are yet to come to bear fruit, or at least the last few times I played.

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Well the same thing happens with the whole Tadpol scenario.
There is no real ultimatum we must escape from.
Kinda downputting yet relieving at the same time.


I was never a great "D&D" player in that sense.

° Played Baldurs Gate 2 decades ago or something like this.
° Then I played first(?) Neverwinter Nights
and that's about it.

I'm an introverted videogamer so I do not go irl to D&D meetings.
My experience with the whole franchise is relatively fresh.


But there is one thing I always took serious after hearing from it.
° Beholders
and
° Mindflayers, especially being infected by them

They are supposed to be extreme Monsters. But the Beholders in the game feel kinda weak in comparisation to their Hype.
And the whole Mindflayer ordeal is, feeling pretty underwhelming too. Allthough that has to be the case since we are special wink ( of course ).
In which videogame are we not somehow "special"?
I know more in which the protagonist is, instead of being a completely mere normie.

But in no game I regretted it more than Baldurs Gate 3. :|
We are so special it feels like plotarmor to me.
Yeah its just my personal opinion of course.

And many new players would be really f°cked if they could just rest two times and it is GAME OVER. grin

The overall solution feels lacking still to me.
It is not the worst and it won't make Baldurs Gate 3 not fun for me of course. [Linked Image]
Just my ever briefly appearing struggle with my sense of immersion.


The finished product would not surprise me if we see it in 2023 at first, looking at the pace the patches progress.
And an alternate hardcore game mode;
In which we are just not protected by this mysterious power and have to find another way to survive, it would interest me greatly.

Our maincharacter group has it pretty easy at this point - I feel.

° Mystra's Ex
° A very previliged Warlock
° One Vampirespawn
° A Half-Elf Asurmar (most probably)
and
° a GIthyanki Armor with a breathing corpse attached to it

Feels like we got very good gear and general potential for overpower. ^_^

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
But the Beholders in the game feel kinda weak in comparisation to their Hype.
Where did you found Beholder?
I fighted just two Spectators. frown

Those are waker versions ... kinda like you wanted to fight elder drake, and fight dragon youngling instead. smile


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
° A Half-Elf Asurmar (most probably)
Huh?

Otherwise agreed, I hope the remaining companions aren't such "very special snowflakes" - being able to create interesting characters without BS such as this is what separates good writers from the mediocre and bad ones.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Two months later I crossed a guy on the Steam forums that implied that this has been fixed and that now letting Gale die and resting for few days without saving him leads to a game over.
I'm not sure if he put the theory to the test or if he just took the game's narration for granted.

I'm here to ask confirmation, since I haven't completed a new playthrough since Patch 3 released: did anyone test if they actually fix this?
Yup, the cinematic itself is not done yet ("Cinematic pending"), but you die after sleeping 3 times after Gale's death.

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Gonna have to try it. Good job, Larian wink


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