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Idk, I like both the DA franchise and the BG one, but I think they're fundamentally different games, and the comparison isn't necessarily fair to either. I've played Bioware games for years, and I prefer to compartmentalize them as their own thing. To me (imho), they're based on different overarching narrative concepts. DA wants you to get really elbow deep in the various social power dynamics of the DA-verse. The origin stories in DAO were, in many ways, all about that: about socializing the player into those specific subject positions within the DA universe and then adding to it something like (a not always well executed) grey morality. BG3 is D&D based, so with a sprawling world and a long history of players creating their custom characters both via video-game mediation and via tabletop, and it's got an alignment system which DA purports not to have. So I don't know that one is better than the other, I like both approaches, but it seems to me they set out to accomplish different things. I think it's neat to be able to play a preexisting character alongside being able to create a completely custom one, that to me adds replayability to the game. But I frankly don't need a ton of handholding to invest into a character by having their Terribly Special Traumas spelled out to me in an origin prologue DA-style (much as I love the games, don't get me wrong)—I can invest just fine without it, or come up with my own backstory for RP purposes.

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Gotta say I'm not a fan of playing as an origin character as my PC. For me it takes the focus away from me being me in an open RPG mindset. Like I like the idea of having companions with me, and I help shape their lives and stories with my actions and choices. But when I have to roleplay as them, its gets weird with how I enjoy the game.

I feel that the big difference when it comes into the adventure/rpg game world. When you play as a character such as Lara Croft or Geralt. You specially role play as them in "their" adventure. But when you have a abstract rpg with companions and morality. Having to role play as "someone" is like capping half of the player's full potential.

There are good things to role playing an origins. But I overall think its better to just have them as a story building companion, and then as a treat, we could role play them in specific instances. So that they just aren't a living book that adventures with us, but how we role them, they shape themselves and us too.

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I love the origin system, in fact I fell in love with it when I was doing my first playthrough of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
I could have made a character, sure, but there were several premade characters with interesting backgrounds whose life I could totally reshapse through playing them.
I still remember my run with Merik Luggerton, who was originally a pit fighter who escaped poverty and ended up on the zeppelin in hopes of a better future.
And damn it, I gave it to him, I even changed his life's entire trajectory, swearing off physical violence and turning him into a great healer and wizard.

I loved roleplaying as that guy, and if Larian wants to give me the pleasure of something similar I will gladly take it, in fact the game would be poorer without this feature.

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I am 100% against origin characters in their current form, it feels completely against what BG is and they are without a doubt made to be superior to the custom character that we can create as they have access to everything custom characters do plus their own origin character stuff, it feels incredibly on its head, basically forcing people to play as origin characters to experience all the game has to offer, making custom characters feel inferior. I would also love to see them just being scrapped as playable, instead give the resources to the PC character or even more towards them as companions.

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Originally Posted by mademan2
I am 100% against origin characters in their current form, it feels completely against what BG is and they are without a doubt made to be superior to the custom character that we can create as they have access to everything custom characters do plus their own origin character stuff, it feels incredibly on its head, basically forcing people to play as origin characters to experience all the game has to offer, making custom characters feel inferior. I would also love to see them just being scrapped as playable, instead give the resources to the PC character or even more towards them as companions.

Many companions in BG1 and 2 were similar by having special stuff only they have. Ignoring EE edition with Dorn and Hexxat, Eldoth produces infinite poisoned arrows, Tiax can summon a ghast for free and believed himself ready to ascend, Alora had a lucky rabbits foot, Viconia was a drow who worshiped Shar, so on and so forth. Many companions had strange stuff. The issue right now is the scale of it and how soon we are privvy to it. It is very possible everyone was abducted BECAUSE of how special they were, but essentially by level 4 the warlock is the most normal party member.

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Originally Posted by mademan2
I am 100% against origin characters in their current form, it feels completely against what BG is and they are without a doubt made to be superior to the custom character that we can create as they have access to everything custom characters do plus their own origin character stuff, it feels incredibly on its head, basically forcing people to play as origin characters to experience all the game has to offer, making custom characters feel inferior. I would also love to see them just being scrapped as playable, instead give the resources to the PC character or even more towards them as companions.

I also think origin characters were a mistake as D&D usually means building your own character, not using someone elses. The biggest mistake was Larian using huge amounts of resources and time on developing these unlikeable characters while neglecting other aspects of the game like the UI and combat mechanics.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by mademan2
I am 100% against origin characters in their current form, it feels completely against what BG is and they are without a doubt made to be superior to the custom character that we can create as they have access to everything custom characters do plus their own origin character stuff, it feels incredibly on its head, basically forcing people to play as origin characters to experience all the game has to offer, making custom characters feel inferior. I would also love to see them just being scrapped as playable, instead give the resources to the PC character or even more towards them as companions.

I also think origin characters were a mistake as D&D usually means building your own character, not using someone elses. The biggest mistake was Larian using huge amounts of resources and time on developing these unlikeable characters while neglecting other aspects of the game like the UI and combat mechanics.

I would say that since they are still developing it, most probably a lot of people like this system.
Even if you think it is a waste of resources, it doesn't mean that everyone thinks it is. For each person a different aspect of the game will be more important.

Last edited by Rhobar121; 01/05/21 05:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I would say that since they are still developing it, most probably a lot of people like this system.
Even if you think it is a waste of resources, it doesn't mean that everyone thinks it is. For each person a different aspect of the game will be more important.

What I meant was, it's pretty clear where Larian spent a huge chunk of their resources on. It's like Larian has no concept of balance and how to manage it. They went all in on origin characters and then some. In the process, they neglected other parts of the game. The game itself took the DOS core system and tacked on 5e. It shows in the product. And it's almost insulting to the customer base by explaining they tried to implement the 5e ruleset when it shows they didn't.

I honestly think BG3 didn't need so many origin characters. It used a lot of their time to refine and polish that aspect of the game. But you can see it in the game how much Larian puts effort into them. They are well done, even if I personally don't like the characters personalities or backstory.

I'm sure for people who like origin characters, if they were implemented half-heartedly, they'd complain especially if they saw how other aspects of the game were far better polished and constructed.

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I am personally not a fan, and most of the "characters" they have thrust upon us I just as soon would kill off or throw away. To me an RPG is about creating your own story within the worlds limitations, not about playing someone else's idea of a story. Mind you having interactions such as these are not bad as temporary alliances, or side interests, but the current character "origin" selection is horrible at best for any long term campaign. Hopefully they introduce some decent options later on, or I will end up soloing this story line.

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I'm honestly confused and annoyed by the concept of these Origin Companions and I personally LOVE good(as in well made) companions in my games.

Wyll and Lazeal are actually ok imo overall nothing OP/off about them. They are basically equal to a custom toon though maybe not min/maxed. Personally I don't care for Wyll he is a bit to fake and try hard for me. Lazeal I'm overall fine with and seems to offer an interesting experience with a race not generally seen a lot.

Shadowheart & Gale I'm just not understanding how playing as one of these makes any sense. How do you define how often I have to eat items as Gale or blow up, especially without a fully implemented time system? Do we get a page or 2 write up about SH and the mission we are currently running involving the artifact & our being a "Maybe" cleric of Shar? Even just as companions, Gale I actively avoid meeting or getting close to his Waypoint. There are only 1 or 2 items so far in act 1 that I'd consider letting Gale eat and even if I do let him eat something he'll still potentially run off and make his own deal ticked off at me cause I took to long. SH is potentially an interesting character as a companion but omg Light cleric is soooo much better than Trickster for having a cleric in your party. Admittedly to me cleric = Blessbot(especially with Arcane Blessing staff) so SH can function but not remotely to the lvl Light does.

Astarion I personally find cliche and cheesy sorry to all the fans. He isn't bad as a standard companion and possibly BiS for anyone who wants to be a Rogue due to self heal/buff.

At release I'll likely be running a 5 toon custom party(modded if not default optional). I was thinking 3 custom and 2 companions for story but I'll admit there is 1 currently datamined Origin Companion I may MC with 2 customs and 2 other companions. I'm hoping though that the current custom party mechanics are fleshed out more.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I would say that since they are still developing it, most probably a lot of people like this system.
Even if you think it is a waste of resources, it doesn't mean that everyone thinks it is. For each person a different aspect of the game will be more important.

What I meant was, it's pretty clear where Larian spent a huge chunk of their resources on. It's like Larian has no concept of balance and how to manage it. They went all in on origin characters and then some. In the process, they neglected other parts of the game. The game itself took the DOS core system and tacked on 5e. It shows in the product. And it's almost insulting to the customer base by explaining they tried to implement the 5e ruleset when it shows they didn't.

I honestly think BG3 didn't need so many origin characters. It used a lot of their time to refine and polish that aspect of the game. But you can see it in the game how much Larian puts effort into them. They are well done, even if I personally don't like the characters personalities or backstory.

I'm sure for people who like origin characters, if they were implemented half-heartedly, they'd complain especially if they saw how other aspects of the game were far better polished and constructed.

The problem I have with this is, of course, that while we couldn't play as the characters, BG and BG 2 both had a lot of characters added in, that could join the party or be rejected. All one needs to do is roll their own character, and they're already well on their way to building their own character. You see, you point to DOS games for this, and while the system to play as one of them was certainly there, the concept of party members, which is what all of the un-played Origin characters become, goes back far longer than that. From where I'm sitting the same amount of time would have gone into their development, even if we couldn't play as them. Just as dev time was spent on Gorion, Sarevok, Khalid and Jaheira, etc. We can jump some franchises if you like? What about the dev time spent on Leleina, or Morrigan in DA? Ashley and Kaiden in ME? Garrus? How much time do you think went into creating those characters, even though we don't play as them?

I get that "but it's DOS 3" is in vogue, but claiming "It's DOS 3 because they developed potential companions" sort of rings hollow.

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Honestly, it's hard to say whether or not I like the origin system, as we've not got a chance to play origin characters. At this point, aren't they all just companions like in any other game?

What's it going to amount to in the full release? I haven't played through DOS 2, so idk. Is it more than just extra dialogue options from time to time? If not, I can't see it taking up too many extra resources.

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Personally I have no interest in it at all...I do not understand the appeal of playing as someone else's concept for a character in a BG game, which have always been about creating and roleplaying your own characters. In my opinion this mechanic is another import from DOS that BG3 could frankly do without.


Originally Posted by robertthebard
Just as dev time was spent on Gorion, Sarevok, Khalid and Jaheira, etc. We can jump some franchises if you like? What about the dev time spent on Leleina, or Morrigan in DA? Ashley and Kaiden in ME? Garrus? How much time do you think went into creating those characters, even though we don't play as them?

I get that "but it's DOS 3" is in vogue, but claiming "It's DOS 3 because they developed potential companions" sort of rings hollow.

Whilst it's true that development time clearly went into the realisation of companions in previous games of this ilk, we never got to play as them and control their responses in dialogue, etc. By implementing the Origins system, Larian have enabled the player to play as one of several characters, not just the main protagonist. So all of a sudden you are having to create dialogue options for several playable characters, not just one. I assume, admittedly in ignorance, that this would take up more development time than for a simple recruitable companion?

Last edited by Etruscan; 02/05/21 07:58 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bruh
I love the origin system, in fact I fell in love with it when I was doing my first playthrough of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
I could have made a character, sure, but there were several premade characters with interesting backgrounds whose life I could totally reshapse through playing them.
I never used pre-made character myself, but that’s not an Origin system, right? - it’s a superb, reactive blank-slate RPG, with some pre-made characters to choose from if you want. It wasn’t a character with set story-arch, unique content, set personality and who would also double down as a companion, if not picked.

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
So all of a sudden you are having to create dialogue options for several playable characters, not just one. I assume, admittedly in ignorance, that this would take up more development time than for a simple recruitable companion?
Sure, but it is difficult to know how to even count it. Afterall, playable origin isn’t just a companion any more, but a PC. Does it take more time to impliment unique lines for couple pre-made origins, then create a robust set of unique choices based on our character build and story choices to characterise our blank-slate as game goes on? No clue. I do find the latter more interesting though.

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I wonder how many people truly enjoyed playing as origin characters in DOS 2 and are eager to try it out in Baldur's Gate 3.

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It seems that a lot of players liked playing origin characters in DoS2, especially in MP.

But from what I heard it's not because players wanted to play an origin pre-made character : it's because custom were less interresting (no specific quest, no specific reactions to events,...)

Last edited by Maximuuus; 02/05/21 09:46 AM.
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Depends on how the back story is. In Dos 2 my first run was with a custom char, now I'm playing with Sebille and I found it engaging because I like her story line, in a future I'll play as Lhose.

In BG3 for now I would be interested in Shadowheart's and Astarion's story lines, I wait to see if they'll add more companions/origin characters, I'm somehow intrigued by the high druid.

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Personally I have no interest in it at all...I do not understand the appeal of playing as someone else's concept for a character in a BG game, which have always been about creating and roleplaying your own characters. In my opinion this mechanic is another import from DOS that BG3 could frankly do without.


Originally Posted by robertthebard
Just as dev time was spent on Gorion, Sarevok, Khalid and Jaheira, etc. We can jump some franchises if you like? What about the dev time spent on Leleina, or Morrigan in DA? Ashley and Kaiden in ME? Garrus? How much time do you think went into creating those characters, even though we don't play as them?

I get that "but it's DOS 3" is in vogue, but claiming "It's DOS 3 because they developed potential companions" sort of rings hollow.

Whilst it's true that development time clearly went into the realisation of companions in previous games of this ilk, we never got to play as them and control their responses in dialogue, etc. By implementing the Origins system, Larian have enabled the player to play as one of several characters, not just the main protagonist. So all of a sudden you are having to create dialogue options for several playable characters, not just one. I assume, admittedly in ignorance, that this would take up more development time than for a simple recruitable companion?

It's a touch beyond ironic that I actually commented on this, but you snipped it out to comment on it? They can all be companions, if one takes the option to roll their own character. I have yet to choose one of the Origin characters to play as, because I do like my blank slate better than someone else's concept. Fortunately for me, it was an option from the time I installed EA up until now, yes? It's almost as if they anticipated this desire to have that clean slate when they implemented the system.

As an interesting aside, while not voiced, IWD 2 had the option to do this, and just run a full party of pre-rolled characters, or to create your own party.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
It seems that a lot of players liked playing origin characters in DoS2, especially in MP.

But from what I heard it's not because players wanted to play an origin pre-made character : it's because custom were less interresting (no specific quest, no specific reactions to events,...)

Yea, it's a bit misleading to say people loved the origin system when it's obvious that the origin characters are so much more interesting than any character that can be made by the player. It's like giving someone the choice between a day old hotdog and a freshly cooked steak and saying "90% of people enjoy steak therefore we're only going to serve steak from now on".

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