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I saw a couple of threads here, where ppl asking for "special" attitude, of npc you encounter, on drow playble characters, that is more close to dnd lore. So why larian can't modify and add system that worked preaty good in DOS2 for undead playable characters... in most cases hide who you are or there will be problems.

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So a little show with a marginal following called Community was accused of perpetrating Black Face stereotyping as a result of an episode in which a character dressed up as a Drow. In this political climate, Larian would be asking for controversy if they were to institute any sort of racial prejudice against non European looking races in their game. Agree or disagree it is the prudent course of action.

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Originally Posted by DistantStranger
So a little show with a marginal following called Community was accused of perpetrating Black Face stereotyping as a result of an episode in which a character dressed up as a Drow. In this political climate, Larian would be asking for controversy if they were to institute any sort of racial prejudice against non European looking races in their game. Agree or disagree it is the prudent course of action.


In a sane world, people would just laugh at those who complained about that and then tell them to fuck off.

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Yeah well discrimination has been overlooked since the dawn of time, who knows, maybe a little over reaction is warranted. It might even do some good, though I am rather more skeptical about that. I tend to think civility is important though and am willing to overlook the more simple minded shit.

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Originally Posted by DistantStranger
So a little show with a marginal following called Community was accused of perpetrating Black Face stereotyping as a result of an episode in which a character dressed up as a Drow. In this political climate, Larian would be asking for controversy if they were to institute any sort of racial prejudice against non European looking races in their game. Agree or disagree it is the prudent course of action.


GTFO.

op: There are specific drow reactions and dialog choices.

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Even in DOS2, this system looked comical for most time. The game believed you were masked even though everyone could see your face.
In BG3, such mechanics would look even more stupid because of the cinematic dialogues. Besides, there is not even a helmet covering the entire face in the game.
I would prefer to avoid a situation where the guard cannot recognize that you are a drow, even though anyone who is not blind should notice it.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Even in DOS2, this system looked comical for most time. The game believed you were masked even though everyone could see your face.
In BG3, such mechanics would look even more stupid because of the cinematic dialogues. Besides, there is not even a helmet covering the entire face in the game.
I would prefer to avoid a situation where the guard cannot recognize that you are a drow, even though anyone who is not blind should notice it.


That would be trivial to fix, though? Just introduce full helmets/masks (and full-cover attire) and tag them as such. Wearing those would block race-specific reactions.

For something more involved, some guards could require you to show your face if you want to pass.

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Originally Posted by DistantStranger
Yeah well discrimination has been overlooked since the dawn of time, who knows, maybe a little over reaction is warranted. It might even do some good, though I am rather more skeptical about that. I tend to think civility is important though and am willing to overlook the more simple minded shit.


Lol, dangerous stoking the fire.

Originally Posted by OreGiri
I saw a couple of threads here, where ppl asking for "special" attitude, of npc you encounter, on drow playble characters, that is more close to dnd lore. So why larian can't modify and add system that worked preaty good in DOS2 for undead playable characters... in most cases hide who you are or there will be problems.


There are specific drow dialogues, as mentioned in this thread, sadly these dialogues will only be to your advantage thus far. There could be something in the future, but for some reason I doubt that.

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Among other things, in the 100 years since the lore progressed from where it stood in 3rd edition the population of surface dwelling drow went from scattered populations of small to medium size that kept generally out of sight to populations of about the same size that are rather more public than they used to be.

It sounds like Eilistraee was gone for some decades and during that time her worshippers were supported by various Seldarine and human gods and Corellon undid the curse that declared the descendants of Ilythir and Miyeritar (the tribes of Dark Elves that became Drow in Faerun) who followed Eilistraee as purified. When Eilistraee reappeared she was once again Seldarine instead of Dark Seldarine, which honestly, personal thought, Sounds like Lloth kicked her out of the small realm she had in the Demonweb to make it harder for her to reach out to and free drow from Lloth.

The progression of surface-drow being more known started in 2nd edition in 1991 with the Drow of the Underdark release,

Also, Vhaerun's worship has been growing...he was also gone for a brief time, apparently after a conflict with Eilistraee though when they both came back they had a new found respect for each other....and I'm not sure what happened with his followers while he was gone...

Anyway, Vhaerun worshippers are often shady merchants and mercenaries but they work with everybody...and they hate Lloth.

Stand out public drow personalities that are not Lloth servants include:

Qilue Veladorn, one of the Seven Sisters, Chosen of Mystra and Eilistraee
Liriel Baenre, priestess of Mystra. Witch of Rashemen
Drizzt Do'Urden, ranger of Mielikki
Jarlaxle Baenre, mercenary, captain of Bregan D'aerth mercenary captain
Zhai, rogue, father was a wood elf, raised among wood elves, one of three playable protagonist in Demon Stone

Qilue and Jarlaxle are both leaders of large groups of non-Lloth drow that frequently interact with non-drow in a peaceful way. They're also representative of Eilistraee adn Vhaerun respectively. (Though QIlue is currently dead, though apparently Eilistraee hasn't given up on Qilue returning to mortal life yet)

Liriel has integrated herself into a human culture. Zhai is shown being welcomed warmly by the wood elves of her home village toward the end of the game. Drizzt sort of does the lone wanderer thing but has strong ties to Silverymoon and Mithril Hall.

If you play drow in NWN2 you get a lot of initial terrified responses but it is relatively easy for the PC to convince people they're not a monster.

Reaction-wise, surface drow in Faerun get somewhat more raised eyebrows than tieflings and half-orcs. In heavily cosmopolitan settings like Waterdeep or open-hearted like Silverymoon they're likely to get less social static than other places. Baldur's Gate has a lot of shady areas, so there's probably a good market of Vhaerun worshipers and mercenaries there.

That said, some level of concern would feel appropriate to a drow PC.

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This is a really good idea <3.

It would add so much to the lore, and it should be harder to persuade the companions to join you too imo(still persuadable, but just make you need to persuade them instead of them accepting your leadership so easily like it is for a High Elf or Human).

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Originally Posted by FatePeddler
This is a really good idea <3.

It would add so much to the lore, and it should be harder to persuade the companions to join you too imo(still persuadable, but just make you need to persuade them instead of them accepting your leadership so easily like it is for a High Elf or Human).


At least with the present companions, it wouldn't make much sense.
Lae'zel doesn't like everyone except Githyanki
Shadowheart has nothing against the Drows (but she hates Githyanki).
Astarion is Astarion
Wyll hasn't reason not to join us at the moment we saved the people at the gate.
Maybe Gale might have a problem, although he's desperate enough not to be picky about his allies.

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I want more drow romance/companion options and Vhaeraun drow first.

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I feel like that's missing specifically for drow, tieflings and githyanki (and eventually half-orcs, and possibly dragonborns). They are all stereotypically evil and also feared and/or discriminated against.

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Originally Posted by frequentic
I feel like that's missing specifically for drow, tieflings and githyanki (and eventually half-orcs, and possibly dragonborns). They are all stereotypically evil and also feared and/or discriminated against.

Unfortunately WOTC is trying to move away from the concept of 'evil races' and since they are the owners of the IP they might try to veto any implementations like these.

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Originally Posted by Bukke
Originally Posted by frequentic
I feel like that's missing specifically for drow, tieflings and githyanki (and eventually half-orcs, and possibly dragonborns). They are all stereotypically evil and also feared and/or discriminated against.

Unfortunately WOTC is trying to move away from the concept of 'evil races' and since they are the owners of the IP they might try to veto any implementations like these.

And all of it is so silly... You already had non Lolth non evil drow before.... It's like people who complained about muh drow or muh orcs evil = racism don't even know the lore or cases where not all of them are evil. Hell, just look at Eberron drow or orcs.

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Originally Posted by Soulcatcher30
Originally Posted by Bukke
Originally Posted by frequentic
I feel like that's missing specifically for drow, tieflings and githyanki (and eventually half-orcs, and possibly dragonborns). They are all stereotypically evil and also feared and/or discriminated against.

Unfortunately WOTC is trying to move away from the concept of 'evil races' and since they are the owners of the IP they might try to veto any implementations like these.

And all of it is so silly... You already had non Lolth non evil drow before.... It's like people who complained about muh drow or muh orcs evil = racism don't even know the lore or cases where not all of them are evil. Hell, just look at Eberron drow or orcs.

Complaints and accusations of that nature are often from people with little to no actual knowledge of the material they're complaining about, but that's an entirely different can of worms that we probably shouldn't open here.

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Originally Posted by OreGiri
I saw a couple of threads here, where ppl asking for "special" attitude, of npc you encounter, on drow playble characters, that is more close to dnd lore. So why larian can't modify and add system that worked preaty good in DOS2 for undead playable characters... in most cases hide who you are or there will be problems.

There is already some special dialogue but it would be nice to see more hostile reactions.

Originally Posted by Uncle Lester

That would be trivial to fix, though? Just introduce full helmets/masks (and full-cover attire) and tag them as such. Wearing those would block race-specific reactions.

For something more involved, some guards could require you to show your face if you want to pass.

There should still be a risk of an intelligent person seeing through this when you are close to them. Maybe make it some sort of deception check and you get advantage while wearing disguise?

Originally Posted by TheOtter

There are specific drow dialogues, as mentioned in this thread, sadly these dialogues will only be to your advantage thus far. There could be something in the future, but for some reason I doubt that.

It does seem that Drow is easy mode so far. Definitely hoping for this to change in other locations.

Originally Posted by Soulcatcher30
I want more drow romance/companion options and Vhaeraun drow first.

I don't care about romances personally but companion(s) would be nice and Vhaeraun should have been in from the start.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by OreGiri
I saw a couple of threads here, where ppl asking for "special" attitude, of npc you encounter, on drow playble characters, that is more close to dnd lore. So why larian can't modify and add system that worked preaty good in DOS2 for undead playable characters... in most cases hide who you are or there will be problems.

There is already some special dialogue but it would be nice to see more hostile reactions.

Originally Posted by TheOtter

There are specific drow dialogues, as mentioned in this thread, sadly these dialogues will only be to your advantage thus far. There could be something in the future, but for some reason I doubt that.

It does seem that Drow is easy mode so far. Definitely hoping for this to change in other locations.

Originally Posted by Soulcatcher30
I want more drow romance/companion options and Vhaeraun drow first.

I don't care about romances personally but companion(s) would be nice and Vhaeraun should have been in from the start.


+1 to all of this.

Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester

That would be trivial to fix, though? Just introduce full helmets/masks (and full-cover attire) and tag them as such. Wearing those would block race-specific reactions.

For something more involved, some guards could require you to show your face if you want to pass.

There should still be a risk of an intelligent person seeing through this when you are close to them. Maybe make it some sort of deception check and you get advantage while wearing disguise?


I think fully covered body should be without checks (no matter how smart you are, you won't see black drow skin through the armor/full helmet), but if it's spells and kits, there should be checks. And I think there are RAW?

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Dataminers pointed that the game has already in place a system that makes a distinction even between "Actual member of race X" and "Just messing with you with an illusion", which is already impressive.
While in general every additional custom reaction is a good custom reaction, I think at some point people need to come to terms with reality and understand that you have to draw a line somewhere.
You can't have million of permutations and specific cases and expect the game to acknowledge every single one of them.

If anything, I was already fairly impressed with the amount of unique reactions I got when I tried a third playthrough as a drow, even if I would agree that they were more often than not on the "convenient" side of things and very rarely a hindrance.


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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester

I think fully covered body should be without checks (no matter how smart you are, you won't see black drow skin through the armor/full helmet), but if it's spells and kits, there should be checks. And I think there are RAW?

Not sure on that exactly but I was thinking more like body language and possibly accent. An observant person would be able to pick up on someone not seeming quite right and ask them to remove the helmet.

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