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Originally Posted by Tuco
Dataminers pointed that the game has already in place a system that makes a distinction even between "Actual member of race X" and "Just messing with you with an illusion", which is already impressive.


That's great to hear, I was wondering about that. It is indeed impressive. I wonder if a "pretender" run will be in any way viable.

Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
I think fully covered body should be without checks (no matter how smart you are, you won't see black drow skin through the armor/full helmet), but if it's spells and kits, there should be checks. And I think there are RAW?

Not sure on that exactly but I was thinking more like body language and possibly accent. An observant person would be able to pick up on someone not seeming quite right and ask them to remove the helmet.


Fair point. Though I'd probably limit it to dialogue, as it's where the PCs are given more attention. Maybe "guard when you're trying to pass a guarded entrance". Random citizen passerby making a lucky check and raising alarm might be annoying.

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Agreed. Random people wouldn't be trained for this, guards (hopefully) and higher ranking types would be. Thinking something similar to FO:NV with faction disguises.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
[quote=OreGiri]
I don't care about romances personally but companion(s) would be nice and Vhaeraun should have been in from the start.



But hopefully independent Vhaeraun, not the Lolth's lackey WotC tried/tries to push on us.

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Originally Posted by Soulcatcher30

But hopefully independent Vhaeraun, not the Lolth's lackey WotC tried/tries to push on us.

We can dream I suppose. smile

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Tuco
Dataminers pointed that the game has already in place a system that makes a distinction even between "Actual member of race X" and "Just messing with you with an illusion", which is already impressive.


That's great to hear, I was wondering about that. It is indeed impressive. I wonder if a "pretender" run will be in any way viable.

You can get few more details here in this video:



There are not story-related spoilers, if you are worried about that. It's just about races and racial tags not yet included in EA (which is also somewhat pertinent with this thread).


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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The first tieflings you meet as Drow do attack you unless you pass an intimidation check, there should be something similar for the burning tavern though.

But there is a reason why the tieflings and druids at the grove are not hostile, you introduce yourself to them by helping them defend their base.

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Originally Posted by Gathord
The first tieflings you meet as Drow do attack you unless you pass an intimidation check, there should be something similar for the burning tavern though.

But there is a reason why the tieflings and druids at the grove are not hostile, you introduce yourself to them by helping them defend their base.

The last part is definitely a valid point. The current map is somewhat sparsely populated, so there's a limited amount of NPCs you can run into. In fact most of the NPCs on the map are of goblins, many of which will assume you're on their side because you're a drow. This is already a good example of racial reactivity done well in my opinion.
If the story takes us to more populated areas later on in the game I think there are going to be a lot more opportunities for NPCs to react to you based on your race.

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Originally Posted by Gathord
The first tieflings you meet as Drow do attack you unless you pass an intimidation check, there should be something similar for the burning tavern though.

+1 That whole area/bit feels half baked.

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Honestly, that’s a very uninteresting way of doing it - punishment is far too severe, and it’s far to easy to avoid it. Outside novelty, being undead meant nothing once you put first bucket on your head.

I would rather have individual NPCs refuse to deal with us, have negative interactions modifier, or unique dialogue choices, rather then this systemic hostility.

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Tieflings have never had the bad reaction that orcs, goblins, and drow do. All three of which have regularly raided other cultures for slaves, plunder, or conquest. Something tieflings haven't been dealing with.

Tieflings have never been considered inherently driven to evil, even at 2nd ed when they were introduced their evil alignment was put toward mostly upbringing/living with suspicion.

The way that the druids are already treating the tieflings in game is appropriate for them. And the optional dialogue options for tieflings goes along with that. My expectation is we'll see more of that in Baldur's Gate...because that city doesn't have a reputation for being intolerant, but it also doesn't have the cosmopolitan reputation of either Waterdeep or Neverwinter....it certainly doesn't have the fair-minded reputation of Silverymoon.

I'll have to check out the Drow dialogue some more, but there's a couple of considerations I have in mind for this.

One is that Dialogue is explicitly something that Larian has said they are still expanding. Another is that that's somewhat bigger ask than most people seem to think it is.

Separate dialogue for Sun Elves and Moon Elves is on my wishlist and extra dialogue for drow would also be great, but I am well aware that that would be an expensive endeavor. Even if they cut corners on what they pay their writers and voice actors, which is common in the industry, that's going to be a fair amount of time and money. There's also the extra time coding them into the conversation and making sure everything triggers and trees appropriately.

You also have to be write the dialogue in question to both capture the distrust and yet NOT cut off quest options or derail the main story line. The NPCs have to work with the main PC or the game doesn't work. There's no live GM to take the story in a new direction. As such they risk having a bit of dialogue of "You are a terrible monster that must be destroyed, now please do this favor for me." And to be fair, it's possible to thread that needle, but the sheer quantity of dialogue in most of these games tends to mean that the overall quality is a bit middle-ground. There's been a lot of cases where video games talk about how amazing a particular story is and it turns out to be a relatively common trope that turns up in novels. (Bioshock Infinity's ending is one of these that strikes me as a very well-executed version of a common time-travel story.)

As to the press to stop using "evil" races. I'm someone who has hated "Always Chaotic Evil" since I first started playing in the late 80s with 1st edition AD&D and Champions. I have not yet seen someone push for changing the Lore, only the mechanics of the PC races. In a lot of cases, those are people that would be very happy exploring the problems that face a goblin or hobgoblin who has turned against Maglubiyet. Actually, one story I want to play is that of a Yuan-ti Celestial Warlock pacted with a lillend, couatl, guardian naga or something similar trying to establish a way to draw other yuan-ti from the evil of their culture and find a safe place to settle in hiding. That would deal with both the issue of common races distrusting yuan-ti and the hunting parties of yuan-ti seeking the heretic. But....it's not the sort of storyline that works well in a video game.

If I had tons of money, I'd try to get a game developed that had radical differences in storyline based on the character's species, creed, and background. Because it is something I really wish existed. Like the model I have in mind is a starter area with issues going on, maybe some opened based on stuff the character is, and instead of the model where you do all the quests at every level, instead when you focus on story Y, then you can't go back to story X and Z because that situation advances to a different level situation at the next story point and the eventual big bad could be very different based on which line of quests you take care of. Like in playthrough one you have X BBEG but in playthrough two you shut him down in the low levels and the BBEG is something else.

But to be perfectly honest, that's like asking for dozens of different games wrapped up into one place. It would be prohibitively expensive in terms of development and would only really happen if someone with enough disposable income just decided "this is something I want to make and don't care about profit." That's an irresponsible stance to take with somebody else's money...and it's even a bit irresponsible with your own money, to be honest. But there it is.

Most RPGs you have Act I with the same set of missions regardless of character. There may be some different prologues (Dragon Age: Origins, for example) or occasional dialogue nods to a character species/background (NWN2), and occasional minor class/species specific side-quests. But that main quest-line is the same regardless of what character you make. And that requires most of the NPCs to have minor if any variation in how they react to different characters.

Last edited by Thrythlind; 14/11/20 05:58 PM.
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I like how Drow are treated in the game. They do have special consideration, but it is very different. Rightly so. Drow culture has very specific ranks and hierachy. If you are not a drow, you are pretty much at the bottom.
Notice how the goblins act when you enter the goblin camp as a drow, as opposed to non drow.... not using the tadpole special dialogue, and not using sazza.

He wants you to smear worg shit on your face as a non drow.

But as a drow? "shove over. drow coming through. This way, your highness."

And others tend to be... leave the drow alone, and they leave you alone.

Gith actually have fairly hostile reactions.... as should be! they hail from the astral plane, so being on the prime material in the first place is very strange. and they are straight up aggressive dicks. so anyone that knows a gith, tends to have a immediate "gtfo" attitude.

About right.

Just saying, there is a large amount of npc reaction added for race at the moment.

It would be interesting, if warforged were added, to have some people adopt a attitude of indifference, as towards robots, or a attitude of wanting to attack the warforged and scrap it for parts.

Other than that. this is not DoS. it won't be either. But I do like the thoughts personally.

Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by guy
I like how Drow are treated in the game. They do have special consideration, but it is very different. Rightly so. Drow culture has very specific ranks and hierachy. If you are not a drow, you are pretty much at the bottom.
Notice how the goblins act when you enter the goblin camp as a drow, as opposed to non drow.... not using the tadpole special dialogue, and not using sazza.

He wants you to smear worg shit on your face as a non drow.

But as a drow? "shove over. drow coming through. This way, your highness."

And others tend to be... leave the drow alone, and they leave you alone.

Gith actually have fairly hostile reactions.... as should be! they hail from the astral plane, so being on the prime material in the first place is very strange. and they are straight up aggressive dicks. so anyone that knows a gith, tends to have a immediate "gtfo" attitude.

About right.

Just saying, there is a large amount of npc reaction added for race at the moment.

It would be interesting, if warforged were added, to have some people adopt a attitude of indifference, as towards robots, or a attitude of wanting to attack the warforged and scrap it for parts.

Other than that. this is not DoS. it won't be either. But I do like the thoughts personally.

Just my two cents.


As for warforged
There are information about playable warforged in the game files.

Given that warforged is usually limited to Eberron, most people would probably wonder what the hell it is.




Last edited by Rhobar121; 14/11/20 06:25 PM.
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yeah. It is a little exciting. Maybe they will allow water exploration with warforged too

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Tuco
Dataminers pointed that the game has already in place a system that makes a distinction even between "Actual member of race X" and "Just messing with you with an illusion", which is already impressive.


That's great to hear, I was wondering about that. It is indeed impressive. I wonder if a "pretender" run will be in any way viable.

Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
I think fully covered body should be without checks (no matter how smart you are, you won't see black drow skin through the armor/full helmet), but if it's spells and kits, there should be checks. And I think there are RAW?

Not sure on that exactly but I was thinking more like body language and possibly accent. An observant person would be able to pick up on someone not seeming quite right and ask them to remove the helmet.


Fair point. Though I'd probably limit it to dialogue, as it's where the PCs are given more attention. Maybe "guard when you're trying to pass a guarded entrance". Random citizen passerby making a lucky check and raising alarm might be annoying.


Currently, you can use it in the game by disguising yourself as a drow to get to the goblin camp (although I didn't try it myself))


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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by guy
I like how Drow are treated in the game. They do have special consideration, but it is very different. Rightly so. Drow culture has very specific ranks and hierachy. If you are not a drow, you are pretty much at the bottom.
Notice how the goblins act when you enter the goblin camp as a drow, as opposed to non drow.... not using the tadpole special dialogue, and not using sazza.

He wants you to smear worg shit on your face as a non drow.

But as a drow? "shove over. drow coming through. This way, your highness."

And others tend to be... leave the drow alone, and they leave you alone.

Gith actually have fairly hostile reactions.... as should be! they hail from the astral plane, so being on the prime material in the first place is very strange. and they are straight up aggressive dicks. so anyone that knows a gith, tends to have a immediate "gtfo" attitude.

About right.

Just saying, there is a large amount of npc reaction added for race at the moment.

It would be interesting, if warforged were added, to have some people adopt a attitude of indifference, as towards robots, or a attitude of wanting to attack the warforged and scrap it for parts.

Other than that. this is not DoS. it won't be either. But I do like the thoughts personally.

Just my two cents.


As for warforged
There are information about playable warforged in the game files.

Given that warforged is usually limited to Eberron, most people would probably wonder what the hell it is.





I thought the datamines made a very obvious distinction between a race just appearing, as either a mention or as a race, or both.
And a race appearing as a playable race.

It may be wrong, but I faintly remember Warforged not having the 'playable' tag that would hint to it being a playable race.

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Not really a fan of fighting. I'm more of a diplomat and I'm thankful we have dice rolls options to avoid further bloodshed.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Tuco
Dataminers pointed that the game has already in place a system that makes a distinction even between "Actual member of race X" and "Just messing with you with an illusion", which is already impressive.


That's great to hear, I was wondering about that. It is indeed impressive. I wonder if a "pretender" run will be in any way viable.

You can get few more details here in this video:

*video link edited out*

There are not story-related spoilers, if you are worried about that. It's just about races and racial tags not yet included in EA (which is also somewhat pertinent with this thread).


I generally try to avoid the datamining for better or worse. Too many major spoilers. Thanks for sharing this spoiler-free answer!

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Please. I am having so much fun with those few conversation where my drow has to wave her arms and cry out that, no, she has no intentions of enslaving anyone.

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