Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#733575 13/11/20 10:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2020
H
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
H
Joined: Oct 2020
Advantage & Disadvantage
Tell me when these apply by rolling two dice on skill checks and highlighting the one used! It would also be nice to see the modifiers to the target number in the final result.

Animal Companions & Familiars for Pact of the Chain
I’m assuming that this one is still under development.
• There are still issues with animal companions and familiars being summoned that the party is hostile towards and forces you into combat with. Also, it is annoying to position my imp only to have it immediately fly back to me when combat starts!
• The way it works now is cool and easy, but I suggest you make the player bind with one particular animal. This companion gains levels when the player does, but if killed can only be revived during a rest (short or long) with a ritual (possibly costing gold).
• Animal companions also are in desperate need of balancing!
• I don’t think the familiar should be able to gain levels (unlike an animal companion) unless the warlock permanently bonds to one in a manner similar to the one described above. Find familiar RAW is pretty much a random member of its kind.
• Casting find familiar costs gold and I think you should enforce this (it is not supposed to be a regenerating hp fountain, and definitely not a leveling regenerating hp fountain)!

Climbing
Climbing counts as difficult terrain. If caught halfway while climbing, an easy fix is to give disadvantage to attacks and advantage on incoming attacks. Creatures or characters with climbing speeds or special abilities can climb at full speed.

Initiative
When I end my turn for a character and multiple characters are going on the same initiative, the game sometimes skips the second character’s turn. Have also seen problems with joining a melee already in progress, such as restarting from the first creature’s initiative when a new combatant joins in.

Lighting

Lots of confusion on this. I have stood next to a goblin by a fire with a light spell on my weapon and had disadvantage because my target is in shadows. Darkvision seems to work sporadically, and Devil’s Sight seems to have problems as well.

Pathing Through Hazardous Terrain Out of Combat
While the character I am controlling usually does pretty well, the other PCs following the character often blunder through vines with thorns, fire that burns, pools of acid and poison, and webs/ice. I know it’s a difficult problem, but with how you do your party chaining/un-chaining, it is imperative you get this right.

Pathing Through Hazardous Terrain In Combat
Require a double-click to complete a path that runs through hazardous terrain or by opponents threatened squares, as well as highlighting the potential problems. It is easy to be threatened and yet not be in range for an opportunity attack, and I can’t tell when this is the case. Would also solve the jump problem (I occasionally aim a jump landing a little bit outside the circle – my character moves, provokes an OA, and then jumps).

Reactions
Reactions are a big part of 5E. Counterspell, parry, shield, etc. are all needed. I hope you are putting them in, and in some way that they can be turned off and on (much like the Great Weapon Fighting feat) and then bringing up a query pop-up on whether or not to use them. I know they are a pain, but it’s part of the game!
Note that with some characters, this could get complex, especially if you allow multi-classing. I say fine. Give the player a warning and then let them have 3 questions about abilities they might like to use each time an opponent targets them.

Targeting
While its cool that goblins act intelligent and target the weakest looking character, not all monsters should do this. Ogres and giants would challenge the toughest looking-warrior, undead and fiends target clerics and paladins, beasts tend to look for whoever is tastiest, and fey the most charismatic. I suggest you institute this and not make combat a mere chess game between the player and computer.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Hexblade

Initiative
When I end my turn for a character and multiple characters are going on the same initiative, the game sometimes skips the second character’s turn. Have also seen problems with joining a melee already in progress, such as restarting from the first creature’s initiative when a new combatant joins in.

Lighting

Lots of confusion on this. I have stood next to a goblin by a fire with a light spell on my weapon and had disadvantage because my target is in shadows. Darkvision seems to work sporadically, and Devil’s Sight seems to have problems as well.



Both of these really need to be fixed. But I think they will be.

Joined: Sep 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Hexblade


Lighting

Lots of confusion on this. I have stood next to a goblin by a fire with a light spell on my weapon and had disadvantage because my target is in shadows. Darkvision seems to work sporadically, and Devil’s Sight seems to have problems as well.

Pathing Through Hazardous Terrain Out of Combat
While the character I am controlling usually does pretty well, the other PCs following the character often blunder through vines with thorns, fire that burns, pools of acid and poison, and webs/ice. I know it’s a difficult problem, but with how you do your party chaining/un-chaining, it is imperative you get this right.

Targeting
While its cool that goblins act intelligent and target the weakest looking character, not all monsters should do this. Ogres and giants would challenge the toughest looking-warrior, undead and fiends target clerics and paladins, beasts tend to look for whoever is tastiest, and fey the most charismatic. I suggest you institute this and not make combat a mere chess game between the player and computer.


Lighting: This would be correct I think. If you are standing near any light source and someone is sneaking around in the shadows you would have a hard time seeing them. If you are in the shadows and you create a light source near your target then you should have advantage (or they have disadvantage.) Unless you meant they were next to the fire? If they weren't in any sort of shadow then this sounds like a bug. Devil's Sight isn't working yet I believe

Pathing: This is really irritating, there should be an option to have them walk where you walk and stop running around like idiots as well.

Targeting: This would actually make sense and would make the player have to use the brain more. I like it. smile

Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by Hexblade

Targeting
While its cool that goblins act intelligent and target the weakest looking character, not all monsters should do this. Ogres and giants would challenge the toughest looking-warrior, undead and fiends target clerics and paladins, beasts tend to look for whoever is tastiest, and fey the most charismatic. I suggest you institute this and not make combat a mere chess game between the player and computer.

I really, really like this. Would be great if something like this was added.
I've seen some complaints about enemies during everything they can just to attack the party member with the lowest AC, even if it'd cause them to get AoO'd in the process.
If the AI has some sort of priority system for targets then surely it'd be possible to change the said priorities based on the enemy type.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Savage North
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Savage North
I agree with pretty much all the points you lists.

* Climbing is part of these things I gather under the label of "verticality doesn't work (yet)". Currently, many parts of the game still behave like in a 2D game.

* I'm somewhat glad to see I'm not the only struggling with the initiative track, characters out of combat joining the fight, not having a full go, not playing during first round, and overall feeling like I have turns stolen from me. It kind of confirms to me that I'm not completely stupid and that the system is not working properly yet.
Given that they initially unveiled a system where the whole party would play followed by the enemy party, and only changed the system to the individual initiatives a bit before EA (with the nice idea of having consecutive character being freely playable), I think they're still in the early stage of the initiative and combat system. I hope much work goes on this.

* They have publicly stated before EA that they were still thinking about how to implement reactions. The problem is that, much like playing spells out of your turn in Magic : The Gathering, reactions are a thing that might work well in TT, but will be a pain in the flow in a video game. I hope they can greatly streamline the rules around this. I don't want to have prompts asking whether I want to spend my reaction now. I think they could
- say that you can have at most one reaction type active at any given time, or even better (because it contains the first option as a particular case),
- say that you may activate several reaction abilities, but the first time one condition is met for a reaction, your character will spend their reaction doing that and thus won't be able to trigger the others.

* And yes, hopefully they will add variety in the enemy AIs.


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
I agree with pretty much all the points you lists.

* Climbing is part of these things I gather under the label of "verticality doesn't work (yet)". Currently, many parts of the game still behave like in a 2D game.

* I'm somewhat glad to see I'm not the only struggling with the initiative track, characters out of combat joining the fight, not having a full go, not playing during first round, and overall feeling like I have turns stolen from me. It kind of confirms to me that I'm not completely stupid and that the system is not working properly yet.
Given that they initially unveiled a system where the whole party would play followed by the enemy party, and only changed the system to the individual initiatives a bit before EA (with the nice idea of having consecutive character being freely playable), I think they're still in the early stage of the initiative and combat system. I hope much work goes on this.

* They have publicly stated before EA that they were still thinking about how to implement reactions. The problem is that, much like playing spells out of your turn in Magic : The Gathering, reactions are a thing that might work well in TT, but will be a pain in the flow in a video game. I hope they can greatly streamline the rules around this. I don't want to have prompts asking whether I want to spend my reaction now. I think they could
- say that you can have at most one reaction type active at any given time, or even better (because it contains the first option as a particular case),
- say that you may activate several reaction abilities, but the first time one condition is met for a reaction, your character will spend their reaction doing that and thus won't be able to trigger the others.

* And yes, hopefully they will add variety in the enemy AIs.

I also used to be understanding of Larian's concerns that reactions would end up slowing down the flow of combat. However after playing the Solasta demo I've changed my mind and I now fully believe that the prompts can be implemented without feeling disruptive at all.
Currently BG3 either outright omits reactions or implements them as toggleable actions before you end your turn. Once classes such as Paladins get added I'm afraid this system simply won't be sufficient since this means you're bound to end up wasting class abilities like Divine Smite in situations where it's completely out of your control.
Think of it like this: You lose nothing by adding reactions, but you stand to lose one of the core elements of 5e combat by chosing not to include them.

Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Reactions would totally increase the flow of combat and not slow it.
Because (re)action is one more action player's can often do.

Being able to avoid a few damages means you'll be able to use your next action not to drink a healing potion... And dealing extra damages would lead to faster kill, sometimes.

It would add a lots of depths and intensity to combats.
As Bukke said, just try solasta to understand how reactions could be VERY more interresting than they are in BG3.

Great Post OP.
This thread and your suggestions will definitely be a part of the "big thread to improve combats" and the "mega list of feedback and suggestions made by the community" I'm working on.



Last edited by Maximuuus; 13/11/20 03:12 PM.
Joined: Mar 2020
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Mar 2020
Really good points OP.

Playing both, i also feel Solasta managed to make reactions more exciting and interesting so far (at least to me) without slowing down the combat significantly, as others said they add a whole another tactical layer which in their current form i just dont feel they do in BG3.
Though i need to say, not all reactions are added to BG3 yet and in many interviews Larian said they are still experimenting with this system so im confident the current method is not set in stone and they will tweak it according to feedback

Joined: Nov 2020
B
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
B
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Reactions would totally increase the flow of combat and not slow it.
Because (re)action is one more action player's can often do.

Being able to avoid a few damages means you'll be able to use your next action not to drink a healing potion... And dealing extra damages would lead to faster kill, sometimes.

It would add a lots of depths and intensity to combats.
As Bukke said, just try solasta to understand how reactions could be VERY more interresting than they are in BG3.

Great Post OP.
This thread and your suggestions will definitely be a part of the "big thread to improve combats" and the "mega list of feedback and suggestions made by the community" I'm working on.




Exactly, I spent far too much time in my playthroughs sitting back and waiting, classes with reactions that are dynamic will need a little system overhaul from this for sure but I think they just don't want to interrupt the flow of the turns as it is already tenuous and causes crashes/hang ups as is. This freezing during enemy turns seems to have been a problem since DOS. Must be the engine.

Joined: Nov 2020
M
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
M
Joined: Nov 2020
In addition to what was said about them, proper reactions (like in Solasta) would actually speed up the game for one more reason: on each of your turns you don't have to think what might happen and which reactions to "turn on".
Simple example: Wizard with Shield and Counterspell and next in initiative:
1) spellcaster followed by Big melee creature that is running your way
2) little green goblin followed by spellcaster

In 1: you are afraid of being downed or immediately killed so on your turn you spend time to disable Counterspell that would eat your reaction on some minor spell
In 2: you absolutely don't care that gobbo is going to hit you for 6 dmg, so you disable Shield and enable Counterspell.

Once again: on every turn you have to stop and think which reactions might be useful to you and you will likely be wrong.
Proper reactions on the other hand are quick. Big hit I can Shield from? Click and done. Fireball coming in the direction of the entire party? Click and done.

Here is what they wrote several months ago:
Originally Posted by Swen
While it’s not going to be in EA immediately, the features and mechanics that allow a character to perform an action as a reaction will trigger automatically. The players will be able to control which reactions they want to enable in anticipation of enemy actions. E.g. a wizard would disable their Attack of Opportunity but enable their Shield spell, which will be cast automatically whenever the wizard is targeted by an attack or Magic Missile spell.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fhk1u3/im_swen_vincke_creative_director_at_larian/

Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2016
Location: Denmark
Ugh, I really really hope they don't end up sticking to their initial draft for reactions.
There is nothing strategic about toggling them on/off and hoping the enemies end up taking the actions you were hoping. If the AI decides to do something else then at best you didn't use up any of your limited resources and at worst you end up dying because you outright aren't able to perform the reaction that'd save you.

Just ask the player what they want to do instead of having them pre-emptively toggle them on or off. It works in tabletop and it works in Solasta which, like BG3, also is a video game adaptation of 5E. There's no reason why it wouldn't also work in BG3.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
stranger
Offline
stranger
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Do you think there should be more than just 1 short rest between long rests? it seems weard that you can only have 1 short rest. When I play paper and pencil D&D we can have a couple shoet rests during the "day" (24 hours/between long rests), I do understand that there is a human DM that uses best jujments to alow the players a short rest, but can we have something more than just 1 short rest? maby 2 short rests, or some more complex system that can detect when to alow you to short rest? 1 shoet rest seems a bit off though.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5