Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Jan 2021
F
stranger
Offline
stranger
F
Joined: Jan 2021
It seems, like the Combat-System really is an issue here.
Myself, I only found the "Backstabbing" a bit to easy to achieve.
But couldn't this be simply fixed by adding "Attack binding" like in PoE1+2?
This way, a non-thief could only perform an attack from behind, when another companion already engaged the enemy (and this one only has 1 Attack Bind).

Larian should learn more from other TBG like PoE, XCOM or DOS *budumm!* wink

Joined: Jan 2021
Location: Missouri, USA
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Jan 2021
Location: Missouri, USA
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
3. How are the various miss animations going to make a difference? No matter how good the animations are, you end up missing 5 times in a row.
It's not that it's boring to miss,
but rather that when you repeatedly fail to hit an enemy or die worse for it, it becomes frustrating quickly.
In this case, AC reduction is 100% justified and the fact that some opponents have a little more HP does not have that much impact.
Besides, someone recently put in the calculations that increasing HP and lowering AC does not have a great impact on the speed of the fight
and the only thing that improves the player's better experience by allowing him to hit more often.

Also, if something is in the D&D rules, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it in-game.




Again, just because I don’t think you understood completely that this game is not just about martial classes, but casters as well. The calculation of the ac was built over a martial class. Sharing fallacious information just to make your argument stronger is counter productive and dishonest. Actually Maximuuus saved a lot of effort by posting the list of the nerfed spells. I’d suggest to read it again. Google it > read them > understand them. Quite simple recipe.

Players don’t like to miss is also an argument that I can’t simply understand. Where have you found this academic paper that people don’t like to miss?
I do think that missing is charming and clever and I’m not brave enough to state in this very forum that “people like to miss”. The way WE feel about certain aspects of the game it’s very personal. I’d advise you to not speak for the others, unless you have statistical evidence.

Now, regarding your last phrase: yes you are right. Some features cannot be translated to a video game. Yet, judging by your counter arguments it’s clear that you are not very interested in understanding the mechanics that are being challenged by the community. I can only see someone trying not to hurt Larians feelings

You could stop being toxic to anyone who disagrees with you.
If the opinions of veterans like Josh Sawyer (if you don't trust Swen) are not enough for you (if you want, I'll look for it later), I don't know what you expect.
I can always reverse the argument and ask you how do you know players like to miss? However, this type of discussion does not make sense.
Due to the changes in the rest system, the casters are much stronger than normal even after the AC change, and this will get deeper with each level.
In a computer game, rest will never be as limited as in PnP, provided you don't give a hard limit, which no one will do.
Even in BG2, you could rest after almost every fight (which D&D game had a limited rest?).

Not being toxic. Being rational for once.

I’ve said that even though I like to miss I don’t speak for the others like you do. Instead of justifying why missing is bad with arguments you simply throw in the air that people don’t like to miss without a good argument. We all do know what are the side effects of the mechanics that Larian built to the game so you can hit more. Have you tried to understand the arguments of the ones who dislike it? I guess not. That’s what I call being toxic

Why you didn’t addressed my counter arguments? I guess you can’t


I have to agree, I see alot of complaints about Misses during combat...I don't understand the complaint. Is it our ADHD with immediate satisfaction in this modern era? Is it being bombarded with hack&slash "RPG" games?

I haven't found Misses slowing me down, or causing undo stress. Only exception was my warlock seemed to miss alot with his eldritch blast. Not sure if the attack roll is DEX or CHA for that. Otherwise I would say the party usually has a 60%+ hit percentage on average, and battles flow and seem challenging...as they should.

People miss in fights, in tabletop especially. Your character starts at level 1, and we only have level 4 or 5 right now? How expert and badass do you expect to be at those levels? Lol I think if you want to constantly hit and feel like a god from the get-go, you probably shouldn't be playing a D&D based RPG. Just my opinion

Joined: Jan 2021
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2021
It's not even just D&D you will have misses in Fire Emblem and the player base doesn't have an issue with it. I don't see misses as a combat issue, more of a UI/Presentation/Animation issue.

[EDIT] I'm always surprised we see complaints about misses but not rolling for 1 damage. [/EDIT]

I can understand seeing the word miss be a little mundane, on tabletop the players describe the combat in varying ways.

I've started a new playthrough to collect data on dice rolls to see if anything is out of the ordinary and so far I'm not. (so far mostly d20, d10, and d6). I just got through 100 rolls in combat and had around 12 misses (the AC on some of these enemies are so low). I'm going to do a more thorough review after 500 combat rolls. (hopefully before patch 4 comes out).

***

I popped in here to add some Youtube videos I found as reference for issues in combat. I debated if I should make videos myself, but I'm grateful most of the issues in combat are shown in these "guides".

High Ground, Jump, Backstab
Dip > Spells

For me the main issue with combat is these general mechanics all characters can use outshine anything a single class can do (Higher Ground, Backstab, Jump, and Dip).
Reactions don't work like we would expect in DnD 5e and saving throw spells are underwhelming after lowering AC and buffing HP for enemies.

Last edited by DragonSnooz; 29/01/21 06:45 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Why does a game with a combat based on dice rolls still have a PERCENTAGE of hitting chance? And who balanced it? Why 6 attack rolls at 65-80% are SIX LOSSES?

Last edited by Modrawd; 01/02/21 05:56 PM.
Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
Originally Posted by Modrawd
Why does a game with a combat based on dice rolls still have a PERCENTAGE of hitting chance?

Well I agree. They could even not give any indication in terms of number to reach.
And if they had to do so, it could be at least a figure on a d20 (adding the mention DIS or ADV if applicable), with the option to actually roll a dice, as with TTD&D.

Last edited by Lunar Dante; 01/02/21 05:46 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
I understand that they want to reach some kind of compromise, but why not use the experience of other projects, such as nwn\2 and bg2

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Modrawd
Why does a game with a combat based on dice rolls still have a PERCENTAGE of hitting chance? And who balanced it? Why 6 attack rolls at 65-80% are SIX LOSSES?
You do realize those percentages come from the actual dice rolls, right? Not all of the rules/mechanics are implemented correctly according to 5e, but those percentages of hitting chance represent the probabilities/statistics of those underlying dice rolls. This part of Larian's 5e rules/mechanics implementation I actually like - better than using https://anydice.com/ or trying to estimate those probabilities... smile

You can see the actual dice rolls in the combat log.

Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
Originally Posted by DiDiDi
Originally Posted by Modrawd
Why does a game with a combat based on dice rolls still have a PERCENTAGE of hitting chance? And who balanced it? Why 6 attack rolls at 65-80% are SIX LOSSES?
You do realize those percentages come from the actual dice rolls, right? Not all of the rules/mechanics are implemented correctly according to 5e, but those percentages of hitting chance represent the probabilities/statistics of those underlying dice rolls. This part of Larian's 5e rules/mechanics implementation I actually like - better than using https://anydice.com/ or trying to estimate those probabilities... smile

You can see the actual dice rolls in the combat log.


When you play TTRPG (which is the proclaimed intention of Larian), you do not say "you have 35% percent chances to hit"
IF you say a figure (because you do not have to say it), you say : "You have to roll a 14" (on a d20), (and if you want to do the math, then you precise if you roll is with advantage, disadvantage, or normal)

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
Originally Posted by DiDiDi
Originally Posted by Modrawd
Why does a game with a combat based on dice rolls still have a PERCENTAGE of hitting chance? And who balanced it? Why 6 attack rolls at 65-80% are SIX LOSSES?
You do realize those percentages come from the actual dice rolls, right? Not all of the rules/mechanics are implemented correctly according to 5e, but those percentages of hitting chance represent the probabilities/statistics of those underlying dice rolls. This part of Larian's 5e rules/mechanics implementation I actually like - better than using https://anydice.com/ or trying to estimate those probabilities... smile

You can see the actual dice rolls in the combat log.


When you play TTRPG (which is the proclaimed intention of Larian), you do not say "you have 35% percent chances to hit"
IF you say a figure (because you do not have to say it), you say : "You have to roll a 14" (on a d20), (and if you want to do the math, then you precise if you roll is with advantage, disadvantage, or normal)
OK, as much as I wish the game was closer to D&D in many ways, this does not bother me at all. Though it shouldn't be hard to implement some sort of toggle (none/dice/%/both) in options - to each his own. While at it, they might as well add another toggle for the dialogue rolls. They exclude/ignore/modify big chunk of the ruleset, but include obnoxious dice rolling in dialogues as a cheap and low-effort way to remind you this is (supposed to be) a D&D game.

Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
I’d prefer to see rolls instead of percentages but there may be players who are not familiar with dice. I’d like to see an option for both.

Joined: Jan 2021
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2021
For showing rolls honestly I'd like both percentage and dice roll. When we crit a 20 flashes before us with a camera change. For non-criticals, It would be nice if we could see the dice roll without a camera change.

Examples
As Astarion swings a d20 shows up showing the roll (15)
When Tav fires and Eldritch Blast at advantage, show both d20s (18) (8)
When Gale tosses a spell at disadvantage, show both d20s (19) (2)
When an enemy rolls a spell save DC, please show the dice (14).
etc.

Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
+ 1d20

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
I don't know if someone asked or not, but:
Will artifacts have full functionality (for example, the Iron Flask)? I understand that they are disbalanced in places, but that's why they are artifacts

Last edited by Modrawd; 03/02/21 10:28 AM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
I'd also like to see the rolls but I like the %.
It's easier and faster to read so I'm for both.

Showing the dice allow us to understand why we missed without looking at the log. This help to understand the rules + what happen.
Again, Solasta did it well even if if this "visual" wouldn't suit a game like BG3... But the "concept" is very good and could inspire something.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 03/02/21 09:37 AM.

French Speaking Youtube Channel with a lot of BG3 videos : https://www.youtube.com/c/maximuuus
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
Couldn't help but notice Hunter's Mark doesn't stack with Colossus Slayer even though Eldritch Blast stacks with Agonizing Blast and Hex. Is this how it's supposed to be per 5e? It makes the Warlock an OP glass cannon: he's always targeted the most because he deals the most damage. Having a formidable Ranger on the field is always great. Also, addition of all basic Ranger favored races and terrain would be great, along with the DN cycle, hunger, and fatigue.

Joined: Oct 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
Recently wrote that the percentage does not reflect reality
:[img]https://ibb.co/tzZTffS[/img]
[img]https://ibb.co/5kmhvvW[/img]

Joined: Apr 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Apr 2020
LOL, good one !

Joined: Feb 2021
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Feb 2021
Hello)
here are some thoughts and kind of suggestions which were born while i have been playing divinity 2

1) as the plot of the game progresses, the story would be recorded in a coherent story that can be read at any time, for a better understanding of what is happening;

2) a glossary of names and descriptions of the characters you meet and who are somehow mentioned in the quest or plot;

3) active combat log - when you click on a spell that was used by the enemy on me, the icon of this spell and its description will appear;

4) the ability to choose an opponent during a battle and read a description of the effects that affect him, and not just their names of this effects;

5) thievery is like a mini-game with a timer, that is, the character cannot always hang around in other people's pockets and choose a loot, you must act quickly. Timer time would depend on Sneaking ability level.


I will be glad if the developers like some of the proposals.

Joined: Sep 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Modrawd
Recently wrote that the percentage does not reflect reality
:[img]https://ibb.co/tzZTffS[/img]
[img]https://ibb.co/5kmhvvW[/img]
It somewhat does. They just forgot to exclude critical miss from %. By D&D rules If you roll 1, you miss, doesn't matter what.

Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
Quote
Not being toxic. Being rational for once.

I’ve said that even though I like to miss I don’t speak for the others like you do. Instead of justifying why missing is bad with arguments you simply throw in the air that people don’t like to miss without a good argument. We all do know what are the side effects of the mechanics that Larian built to the game so you can hit more. Have you tried to understand the arguments of the ones who dislike it? I guess not. That’s what I call being toxic

Why you didn’t addressed my counter arguments? I guess you can’t

Quote
I have to agree, I see alot of complaints about Misses during combat...I don't understand the complaint. Is it our ADHD with immediate satisfaction in this modern era? Is it being bombarded with hack&slash "RPG" games?

I haven't found Misses slowing me down, or causing undo stress. Only exception was my warlock seemed to miss alot with his eldritch blast. Not sure if the attack roll is DEX or CHA for that. Otherwise I would say the party usually has a 60%+ hit percentage on average, and battles flow and seem challenging...as they should.

People miss in fights, in tabletop especially. Your character starts at level 1, and we only have level 4 or 5 right now? How expert and badass do you expect to be at those levels? Lol I think if you want to constantly hit and feel like a god from the get-go, you probably shouldn't be playing a D&D based RPG. Just my opinion

Hard agree.

Last edited by Roethen; 05/02/21 05:04 PM.
Page 4 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5