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I think, when meeting Minthara, I really miss the opportunity to honestly tell her what happened to us, that I really am not a True Soul, but at the same time say, "Don't rush to kill me, I really want to help you, because I liked you - and we'll figure all the rest later when you are convinced what can you trust me". I think her attitude towards us when she finds out that we are helping her of own free will and not by the will of the absolute should be better. And also she will obviously give us more information about the Absolute.
Perhaps she won't believe us if we say that she also has a tadpole. But he will remember this.

That is, I want to directly say "I liked you, so I will help you and I'll be honest with you, that's the only reason" - I will not be mistaken if I say that this is what most players who helped her would like to say.

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She will gladly kill us the next morning, I doubt the words "I like you" will convince her. This would be even more inconsistent than the whole evil path of this quest. Girls like her prefer actions, not mere words.

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Originally Posted by Verte
She will gladly kill us the next morning, I doubt the words "I like you" will convince her. This would be even more inconsistent than the whole evil path of this quest. Girls like her prefer actions, not mere words.

Yes it is. But I want the main character to answer what he really thinks, more realistic. She may be amused by this, but words can be backed up by action.

In order for Minthara not to try to kill us, I would suggest destroying the Druid Grove alone, using only the forces of our party.
After that, she will at least be afraid to betray us and will warn about the decision of the absolute in advance, immediately moving on to the conversation about the fact that she does not want this in the morning after the party (without trying to kill), and will offer help on the way to the Moonrise Tower.

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I don't see a situation that makes sense for either a good, neutral or evil chracter in telling Minthara something like you suggest.

People like Minthara would take any information you give her and then decide how she could use it to her benefit. "I like you" would make her think how it can be exploited.

She would consider if she can use your emotions to solidify her position and power.

Edit: Some bad endings might be cool to have though. The above about eliminating the Grove with the player's party for instance. I think it'd be great if things like Minthara using the PC emotions to eliminate the Grove, then poisoning and killing them at the celebration leading to a game over state would be awesome.



Last edited by Blade238; 16/11/20 06:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blade238
People like Minthara would take any information you give her and then decide how she could use it to her benefit. "I like you" would make her think how it can be exploited.

pretty sure this is exactly the relationship OneManArmy wants with Minthara, so what you've said is a positive, not a negative xD

Edit: And thus I am proven correct ^_^
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Why not? Let her use it, I don't mind

Last edited by mrfuji3; 16/11/20 06:51 PM. Reason: 2 posts below this one
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This is better idea than 'i like you'. She could assemble a squad after the battle and check the truth of our words (in case she's afraid of ambush).

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Originally Posted by Blade238
I don't see a situation that makes sense for either a good, neutral or evil chracter in telling Minthara something like you suggest.

People like Minthara would take any information you give her and then decide how she could use it to her benefit. "I like you" would make her think how it can be exploited.

She would consider if she can use your emotions to solidify her position and power.



Why not? Let him use it, I don't mind

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Blade238
I don't see a situation that makes sense for either a good, neutral or evil chracter in telling Minthara something like you suggest.

People like Minthara would take any information you give her and then decide how she could use it to her benefit. "I like you" would make her think how it can be exploited.

She would consider if she can use your emotions to solidify her position and power.



Why not? Let him use it, I don't mind


Hmm, but what is the reason for PC to even work for the absolute when it is pretty clear they want make us their puppet and maybe even turn us in mindflayer during invasion day. Minthara is a total stranger. Unless it is a blind love at first sight, PC would rather try avoid working for her or absolute at all cost.

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Originally Posted by Verte
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Blade238
I don't see a situation that makes sense for either a good, neutral or evil chracter in telling Minthara something like you suggest.

People like Minthara would take any information you give her and then decide how she could use it to her benefit. "I like you" would make her think how it can be exploited.

She would consider if she can use your emotions to solidify her position and power.



Why not? Let him use it, I don't mind


Hmm, but what is the reason for PC to even work for the absolute when it is pretty clear they want make us their puppet and maybe even turn us in mindflayer during invasion day. Minthara is a total stranger. Unless it is a blind love at first sight, PC would rather try avoid working for her or absolute at all cost.


On the one hand, you are right, but now there really is no reason to go through the evil root except "I liked Minthara", there is no ... yes, nothing at all except her in this root. Helping the absolute looks so illogical that to tell Minthara directly why the main character is doing this looks adequate. Then it will make at least some sense.

By the way, Minthara most likely does not know about the tadpole in her head, and an honest conversation can make her think about the fact that she is also being deceived and manipulated in the second act. After that we will be the only ones who can somehow help protect her from both the Absolute and the clerics of Lolth .. in general, there are many things that Larian can think about

Last edited by OneManArmy; 16/11/20 07:01 PM.
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There should be a way to show her our tadpole's powers and 'wake' her worm, let her feel she has something else than the absolute in her head. Or take her to Omeluum and let him convince her,

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As William Turner Jr. would say: "It's only a matter of leverage". There should be a way to put so much pressure on her that she would eventually listen to the main character and could be turned into their cause just like it is possible with Khaga. She deserves at least the same treatment.

I would welcome more possibilities with a character who has good potential and a very good voice acting on top of that.

Last edited by Nyanko; 16/11/20 07:18 PM.
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Originally Posted by Nyanko
As William Turner Jr. would say: "It's only a matter of leverage". There should be a way to put so much pressure on her that she would eventually listen to the main character and could be turned into their cause just like it is possible with Khaga. She deserves at least the same treatment.

I would welcome more possibilities with a character who has good potential and a very good voice acting on top of that.


Yes, she has the same problem as our party, she just doesn't know yet. When he finds out, he will be the perfect evil companion and a good friend, and we will learn more about her. I love the fact that she is evil but not absolute evil and she has a deep personal drama in her backstory. Most likely, she can be really good with us if she will trust and respect us over time, and we will show that we will not betray her for profit as is customary in drow Lolth society

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What bores me is that we are obviously unable to truly make out what the "Absolute" is.

Naturally of course since this is only " Act I - of Diablo's Gate 3 ". wink

But I am a little disappointed in the fact that everyone we meet either knows nothing
or has apparently successfully brainwashed into thinking the Absolute is a real god.
And boi do I not believe it.

I suspect either some Eldritch/Aberration.
Maybe something Nesserin aka a Shadowfel being.
Or a cult with very dark evil Magic or psionic powers.

If the Absolute is a real god, I guess we might as well worship Boooaaal too. >snort

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I love the fact that she is evil but not absolute evil and she has a deep personal drama in her backstory. Most likely, she can be really good with us if she will trust and respect us over time, and we will show that we will not betray her for profit as is customary in drow Lolth society


This as far from truth as it can be. She is psychotic sociopath that fits a serial killer profile. She kills for pleasure and without any reason. If you don't think this is absolute evil then I don't know what to say. There is no drama in her backstory, she's a typical drow, who is paranoid to be backstabbed. Characters with no empathy just cannot learn to trust and respect anyone because it's like for a blind person to learn to figure out colors. Sociopaths can never be friends (they can pretend though), they just cannot feel friendship on a biological level due to lack of empathy. If you want believable behavior, the only way for her to behave respectfully is if you will gain a total and overwhelming control over her, if you can end her life at any moment and know her intentions at any time (using tadpole). Then she'll obey due to fear, switch to boot licking behavior and backstab you if she'll find reasonable opportunity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for adding evil choices and fun evil roleplaying but I want it to be well made and believable.

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Originally Posted by Maerd
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I love the fact that she is evil but not absolute evil and she has a deep personal drama in her backstory. Most likely, she can be really good with us if she will trust and respect us over time, and we will show that we will not betray her for profit as is customary in drow Lolth society


This as far from truth as it can be. She is psychotic sociopath that fits a serial killer profile. She kills for pleasure and without any reason. If you don't think this is absolute evil then I don't know what to say. There is no drama in her backstory, she's a typical drow, who is paranoid to be backstabbed. Characters with no empathy just cannot learn to trust and respect anyone because it's like for a blind person to learn to figure out colors. Sociopaths can never be friends (they can pretend though), they just cannot feel friendship on a biological level due to lack of empathy. If you want believable behavior, the only way for her to behave respectfully is if you will gain a total and overwhelming control over her, if you can end her life at any moment and know her intentions at any time (using tadpole). Then she'll obey due to fear, switch to boot licking behavior and backstab you if she'll find reasonable opportunity.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for adding evil choices and fun evil roleplaying but I want it to be well made and believable.

Pretty much this.

I've seen a few of these types IRL too and they're just scary. I'm sure most in the medical field could say the same. It's sad when you see them with families and relationships because you know they're using and manipulating, but legally and professionally you can't say diddly.

A lot of personality disorders are like that too.

I'm just glad for OneManArmy it's a game character! Haha

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Originally Posted by Maerd
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I love the fact that she is evil but not absolute evil and she has a deep personal drama in her backstory. Most likely, she can be really good with us if she will trust and respect us over time, and we will show that we will not betray her for profit as is customary in drow Lolth society


This as far from truth as it can be. She is psychotic sociopath that fits a serial killer profile. She kills for pleasure and without any reason. If you don't think this is absolute evil then I don't know what to say. There is no drama in her backstory, she's a typical drow, who is paranoid to be backstabbed.


Killing for fun in a computer RPG is so-so sin, considering that most of the game we fight someone, and even a good hero can enjoy the sophisticated killing of some asshole. Think of Dragon Age Origin and Arl Rendon Howe, even the kindest heroes would like to torture him slowly and enjoy.

It's just that in this case we kill tieflings and not bandits in the chapel. And we kill tieflings and merchants not in a boring way just for the sake of loot, but on a quest in a more interesting way.

It is normal for drow and people like Astarion to take pleasure in violence. What she did to Sazza is pretty good, goblins are dumb evil minions and it was a fun scene.

The subject of determining whether she is absolute evil or not is her relationship with her compeer who are trying to be friends with her.

My attention was drawn more to the scene with her fears, as well as the fact that she say words of regret, apologizes, and offers help after checking her beliefs. In my understanding, evil from absolute evil is distinguished by the fact that absolute evil would simply attack us of its own free will and there would be no unnecessary words and scenes. Like Kagha, by the way, but I hope it's just a bad writing job at EA.

She also must have had reasons to leave Lolth for the Absolute, when she talked about the drider it seemed to me that she disapproves of Lolth and is glad that nothing else is with her. She might have failed Lolth's test, or something like that. There is a reason we need to find out. Lolth is also absolute evil. Compared to which the actions of Minthara are not so evil, it would be ideal for her to act in her own interests that would coincide with the interests of the protagonist in the first place, and not in the interests of the cult of the Absolute. But still stick to the same style

Last edited by OneManArmy; 17/11/20 09:02 AM.
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I hear superficial charm is a prominent trait of the sociopath. My applause for the writers, judging from player reaction, Minthara and Asterion have that in the bag.

Last edited by Ari; 17/11/20 05:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Ari
I hear superficial charm is a prominent trait of the sociopath. My applause for the writers, judging from player reaction, Minthara and Asterion have that in the bag.


Yes, Astarion is like that. And he has a lot of female fans who love him just like that. But we do not say that he is an absolute evil, because he can be friends with us. Minthara is the same for male players, but a little bigger and more difficult

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I actually found asterion more interesting after it became apparent he did not really have a hidden soft side. That he is a through and through sociopath who, if one uses detect thoughts, is trying to appear as if he has standards and banking hard on the victim angle to manipulate the pc. Adds a bit of unpredictability to the party, teaches me I cannot take everything the companions say at face value.

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Originally Posted by Ari
I actually found asterion more interesting after it became apparent he did not really have a hidden soft side. That he is a through and through sociopath who, if one uses detect thoughts, is trying to appear as if he has standards and banking hard on the victim angle to manipulate the pc. Adds a bit of unpredictability to the party, teaches me I cannot take everything the companions say at face value.

Same here.
I realise it might not necessarily be a common opinion, but I find it quite refreshing. In an age where far too many villains need to be morally grey and relatable it's refreshing to just have a companion who is (or at least appears to be) irredeemably evil.

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