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Killing Cazador may end up with our blond elf biting us, even in Skyrim I was rather #team_werewolves than filthy vamps. He has done something similar to slave trading so a no-no for me. Even Minthara looks less drastic.

Last edited by Verte; 17/11/20 08:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Killing for fun in a computer RPG is so-so sin, considering that most of the game we fight someone, and even a good hero can enjoy the sophisticated killing of some asshole. Think of Dragon Age Origin and Arl Rendon Howe, even the kindest heroes would like to torture him slowly and enjoy.

Killing humanoids for fun in PRGs by players happen mostly due to desensitization to violence towards humans in computer games. How many of those people kill the doggy for fun?
"Killing some asshole" is not the same as killing for pleasure because it is caused by empathy for the victims of the aforementioned asshole. Sociopaths, on the contrary, are not motivated by empathy but will understand motives of normal people as if they are motivated by pleasure because this is the only frame of reference for them.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy

It is normal for drow and people like Astarion to take pleasure in violence. What she did to Sazza is pretty good, goblins are dumb evil minions and it was a fun scene.

First of all, not all drow are like that. Most are but not all. Secondly, no matter how dumb is the minion, Sazza was ready to serve unquestionably and in that demonstrated a useful behavior, which characterize Minthara not only as a sociopath but also as a mentally inadequate.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy

The subject of determining whether she is absolute evil or not is her relationship with her compeer who are trying to be friends with her.

Again, sociopaths cannot have friend on the biological level. I don't like the "absolute evil" as a term in principle. Just let's say that she's a chaotic evil character with psychotic behavior.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy

My attention was drawn more to the scene with her fears, as well as the fact that she say words of regret, apologizes, and offers help after checking her beliefs. In my understanding, evil from absolute evil is distinguished by the fact that absolute evil would simply attack us of its own free will and there would be no unnecessary words and scenes. Like Kagha, by the way, but I hope it's just a bad writing job at EA.

Fear is a component of a survival instinct and has nothing to do with redeemable qualities. Regarding what she says, I wouldn't trust her even a second. Sociopaths are very skillful manipulators. At that point she's saving her skin and will tell anything necessary to sway you mind. And what's the point of attacking if you know you'll die right away?


Originally Posted by OneManArmy

She also must have had reasons to leave Lolth for the Absolute, when she talked about the drider it seemed to me that she disapproves of Lolth and is glad that nothing else is with her. She might have failed Lolth's test, or something like that. There is a reason we need to find out.

The reason is a tadpole, which makes her think a certain way.

Originally Posted by Ari
I hear superficial charm is a prominent trait of the sociopath. My applause for the writers, judging from player reaction, Minthara and Asterion have that in the bag.

Indeed!

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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
In order for Minthara not to try to kill us, I would suggest destroying the Druid Grove alone, using only the forces of our party.
After that, she will at least be afraid to betray us and will warn about the decision of the absolute in advance, immediately moving on to the conversation about the fact that she does not want this in the morning after the party (without trying to kill), and will offer help on the way to the Moonrise Tower.

Why should she be affraid?
She have whole goblin army at her disposal, she believes that she have goddess on her side, and she is also quite self confident ... also, if she dont participate on fight, how should she guess your power based on that?

Nah ... this whole scenario dont seem fiting her personality ...
Yes, you should be able to be honest with her ... but in that case you should be striked down as abomination ... after all, Minthara sended her agents to kill everyone who survived that Nautiloid crash ... so why should she be friendly on you, since you "honestly" confess that you are one of her targets? O_o
I like the idea of killing whole groove for her all by yourself (or your party w/e) ... but concidering her personality (and all other mentioned abowe) ... she should more like say something like "then i dont need you anymore" and attack you anyway.

You seem to forgeting that this massacre is the only thing that takes you two close enough so she is even able to think about joining your little journey.

Originally Posted by Verte
Hmm, but what is the reason for PC to even work for the absolute when it is pretty clear they want make us their puppet and maybe even turn us in mindflayer during invasion day. Minthara is a total stranger. Unless it is a blind love at first sight, PC would rather try avoid working for her or absolute at all cost.

That is ofcourse up to PC to decide ...

Im sorry, i just cant help it ... i find this question incredibly funny ... you are basicly asking us why your character (aka you) should do something ... as if we should know better than you. laugh
Right now i can think about at least 5 reasons for joining the absolute for one of my characters ... none of them is relevant for another one. laugh

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
By the way, Minthara most likely does not know about the tadpole in her head, and an honest conversation can make her think about the fact that she is also being deceived and manipulated in the second act. After that we will be the only ones who can somehow help protect her from both the Absolute and the clerics of Lolth .. in general, there are many things that Larian can think about

On one hand we have whole cult, powers given her by goddess that she allready uses (so she know that there is some powerful entity), and strong believe in her goddess, maybe almost a little fanatic ...

On the other hand we have complete strainger, that comes here and declare that our goddess and everything around it is one huge scam ... also telling us that we have discuisting tadpole in our brain ... and admiting that s/he have one too ... and also admiting that s/he is surviver from crash, that Minthara was ordered to kill ...

And she should believe you, bcs you say that you "like her"? laugh

Originally Posted by Nyanko
As William Turner Jr. would say: "It's only a matter of leverage". There should be a way to put so much pressure on her that she would eventually listen to the main character and could be turned into their cause just like it is possible with Khaga. She deserves at least the same treatment.

I would welcome more possibilities with a character who has good potential and a very good voice acting on top of that.

That is completely different situation ... with Kagha whole groove stand with you ... with Minthara its you vs. everyone else in radius of few dozen meters. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Maerd
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
It is normal for drow and people like Astarion to take pleasure in violence. What she did to Sazza is pretty good, goblins are dumb evil minions and it was a fun scene.

First of all, not all drow are like that. Most are but not all. Secondly, no matter how dumb is the minion, Sazza was ready to serve unquestionably and in that demonstrated a useful behavior, which characterize Minthara not only as a sociopath but also as a mentally inadequate.

I disagree here ... yes, Sazza was ready to serve unquestionably ... but she did had her job, and she failed.
Its classic "you failed me for last time" Vader scene ...
Minthara cant afford to allow failure, she comands goblins through fear, and it could be seen as weakness ... they all are loayal to her, mostly bcs they are affraid not to be. laugh Therefore loayality is not so precious value here ... but if they are affraid to fail, affraid more of Minthara, than death ... she gets much more usefull minions.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Yes, Ragnarok, you are saying the right things - her reaction will be strong surprise and not understanding. But most likely, she will think that it can be used and that we will still die in the attack on the druid grove, so that we can be used and solve two problems at once. After the attack then it will be about the same as now in the game, but with additional dialogues which will make the immersion more realistic. Few will argue that Minthara is the only reason for many to go through the evil root, because besides her, there is nothing else interesting there.

Regarding Sazza, one could reflect on this topic if not for one "but". Sazza tried to trick us and asked Minthara to execute us first, so I enjoyed the scene later. I would even suggest executing her personally if there was such a dialogue.

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I see ... well, that seem reasonable ...
Maybe i would like to also see some persuation check there, so she can either keep her believes and attack you, for being heretic ... or believe you, and continue in trying to use you ...
There would be nice detail, if choosing this path, would shaken her believes in the Absolute, and make easier (meaning dif. 13 instead of 15 for example) to persuate her "after battle in your camp" to abandon the Absolute, and join you instead.

If that is what you had in mind, then i get it wrong.
This is really interesting idea!


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I see ... well, that seem reasonable ...
Maybe i would like to also see some persuation check there, so she can either keep her believes and attack you, for being heretic ... or believe you, and continue in trying to use you ...
There would be nice detail, if choosing this path, would shaken her believes in the Absolute, and make easier (meaning dif. 13 instead of 15 for example) to persuate her "after battle in your camp" to abandon the Absolute, and join you instead.

If that is what you had in mind, then i get it wrong.
This is really interesting idea!

I think that would be a great idea, but it will happen in the Moonrise Tower or in the second act.

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