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Originally Posted by Maerd
It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game.

yeah for normie randos, but I used bold and words in all caps to go along with my angry gamer attitude, surely that at least means that larian has got a small dedicated team working on implementing my suggestions

Last edited by alice_ashpool; 17/11/20 06:28 PM.
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@uncle Lester you can check out one of the many "evil route sucks" threads on the forum if you want a detailed analysis. In short, the writing in the evil route simply isn't as good as the good route.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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They generally did not give the opportunity to play the evil hero, they need a special evil writer if Larian has any problems in order to realize this to its full potential.

What are the shades of evil? Kagha and Shadow Druids? Dead end, they attack even if we helped them. Minthara? She is beautiful, but she did not even go with us to the party as a companion and she is a puppet of the Absolute and does not act of her own free will. Helping her as a "leap of faith" in the first playthrough, there was no hint of a sequel. If my intuition had been less strong, perhaps I would not have helped her because it was not very obvious that this could be done at all.
In addition, at the end it is again not clear what will happen next, when we see her and get into the party with the continuation of the romance. If this does not happen, then it will greatly disappoint me.

Goblins? They are stupid, and helping them looks like the most illogical action, no answers or hints that it might make sense. Helping the fake Paladins of Tyr? Idiocy, you can't tell them that we know their secret and want to enlist in the service of the demons. Show us at least one normal evil variation in EA that would seduce us, motivate us, and look like an interesting solution.


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Hey guys it's only been a month since Early Access came out. We can't expect the full release for a year or so; let us keep hope that they are keeping tabs despite the radio silence and are working on things smile

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Originally Posted by Abits
@uncle Lester you can check out one of the many "evil route sucks" threads on the forum if you want a detailed analysis. In short, the writing in the evil route simply isn't as good as the good route.


I'm willing to believe people there's a problem with the evil route. I specifically didn't read the thread, as I'm trying to avoid spoilers. wink

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, the only thing that can be said is that there is no confirmation that they are accepting the feeback.

Except for one of several times like "We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there."

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by Maerd
It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game.

yeah for normie randos, but I used bold and words in all caps to go along with my angry gamer attitude, surely that at least means that larian has got a small dedicated team working on implementing my suggestions

As if I wasn't mad enough at you already, if you make me spew my coffee all over my keyboard I will really be pissed! (And tell you so in bold and all caps).

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
I'm willing to believe people there's a problem with the evil route. I specifically didn't read the thread, as I'm trying to avoid spoilers. wink

Any luck with that ?

I avoid threads that seem dedicated to talking about plot points or quests, but there's a significant amount of spoil going on in other threads. I played until the celebration only, trying to do as little as possible aside of it. Which is already a big chunk, it seems. For the rest, either I hear about some aspects of quests I found and ignored, but had an idea of how they would turn out, or I hear about possible encounters against monsters I haven't met. So, I hear a bit more than I'd wish.


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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[b][/b]
Originally Posted by RumRunner151

Originally Posted by drimaxus
I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.


So since Vometia thinks my response was inflammatory, I will provide facts that directly dispute the OPs claims and hope that is not inflammatory.

Larian responding to a feedback thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94360&Number=731263#Post731263
Larian commenting that they are working on fixing a problem: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87598&Number=731133#Post731133
Larian thanking us for the feedback we have been providing and giving us a hotfix: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93920&Number=723217#Post723217
Larian thanking us for our feedback and asking us to continue. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87468&Number=677655#Post677655
And that's just here in these forums.

What about a quote from the man himself a week ago where he says they are listening to people's complaints and considering ways to address them: “We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there. We'll experiment with that throughout early access, and see what we should make the default option. That's one of the things that will be driven by the analytics.” https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian

Sorry if my earlier post was inflammatory, but I feel this thread is inflammatory since it is contradicted by factual evidence that is not hard to find if you look for it.



I would like to kindly remind you that you are forgetting what my original post was about, I said all they care is about stability and bug reports, and the links you provided (except one) are about BUG FIXING
And all those comments are from the same account Jess Larian that has only 67 posts since 2018, what an active community manager!


Last edited by drimaxus; 17/11/20 07:44 PM.
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Just to sum up this thread....
"They aren't listening...."
**Evidence they are here listening posted with links**
"Thats not good enough"

May I ask, exactly what are people expecting in terms of feed back? Genuine question.

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Originally Posted by drimaxus
I would like to kindly remind you that you are forgetting what my original post was about, I said all they care is about stability and bug reports, and the links you provided (except one) are about BUG FIXING
And all those comments are from the same account Jess Larian that has only 67 posts since 2018, what an active community manager!


Has it occurred to you that post count means nothing? Especially when they are working hard on the game itself? Also, Jess_Larian isn't a community manager, he's working for Larian itself and clearly he cares enough about his job to sometimes check forums and answer here and there if he can spare the time?

Also, has it occurred to you that maybe there are people who work at Larian and check the forums from their private accounts nobody knows anything about? You know, incognito style? To not draw too much attention to themselves?

Can you please stop acting like a child whose toy was broken and parents are taking too long to repair/replace it? Take a damn chill pill.

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Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
I'm willing to believe people there's a problem with the evil route. I specifically didn't read the thread, as I'm trying to avoid spoilers. wink

Any luck with that ?

I avoid threads that seem dedicated to talking about plot points or quests, but there's a significant amount of spoil going on in other threads. I played until the celebration only, trying to do as little as possible aside of it. Which is already a big chunk, it seems. For the rest, either I hear about some aspects of quests I found and ignored, but had an idea of how they would turn out, or I hear about possible encounters against monsters I haven't met. So, I hear a bit more than I'd wish.


*sigh* No... not much luck. People just don't give a shit and spoil left and right even if specific forums have clearly written spoiler policies... I wish there was heavier moderation spoiler-wise.

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Most games have a problem with an evil route. There is generally the assumption that evil means going around slaughtering everyone for no particular reason for one thing, and that is very difficult to write well (because it is stupid). In playing an evil character, I want a reason and payoff better than getting to loot a bunch of bodies.

Why would I side with Minthara who seems to be nothing but a psychopath or the puppet of a psychopathic being? Why would I side with Kagha who is again a puppet? Neither makes sense to me.

Edited to add: I agree that they possibly need to find a writer who is comfortable writing an evil path, preferably one that makes some logical sense. Is Larian paying attention? I suspect they are. That is kind of the point of Early Release after all. That doesn't mean they will accept all orl even most suggestions/criticisms or make instantaneous changes.

Last edited by Albannach; 17/11/20 08:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Dinvan
Just to sum up this thread....
"They aren't listening...."
**Evidence they are here listening posted with links**
"Thats not good enough"

May I ask, exactly what are people expecting in terms of feed back? Genuine question.


See the post directly above yours. A total of 4 posts by Jess Larian, 3 of which are in response to bugs and the other is a generic "thank you for this feedback", does not "response to feedback" make.

I would like an official Community Update by Larian where they specifically mention a few of the big forum discussion topics, noting that these issues seem important to the players and at least saying that Larian is "looking into them to see if changes should be made."
Even better would be Larian indicating their likelihood of changing any of these topics and/or their reasons for doing or not doing so.
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by drimaxus
I would like to kindly remind you that you are forgetting what my original post was about, I said all they care is about stability and bug reports, and the links you provided (except one) are about BUG FIXING
And all those comments are from the same account Jess Larian that has only 67 posts since 2018, what an active community manager!

Has it occurred to you that post count means nothing? Especially when they are working hard on the game itself? Also, Jess_Larian isn't a community manager, he's working for Larian itself and clearly he cares enough about his job to sometimes check forums and answer here and there if he can spare the time?

Also, has it occurred to you that maybe there are people who work at Larian and check the forums from their private accounts nobody knows anything about? You know, incognito style? To not draw too much attention to themselves?

Can you please stop acting like a child whose toy was broken and parents are taking too long to repair/replace it? Take a damn chill pill.

How on earth does post count mean nothing? We are specifically talking about how responsive/acknowledging Larian has been to our feedback. Post count and post content mean everything.

There very well might be people at Larian using private accounts. But, by definition, we don't know about these accounts. Thus we're still in the situation of being in the dark, where to us, Larian has not acknowledged most of our feedback and we are unsure of the extent to which they will actually listen to it.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I would like an official Community Update by Larian where they specifically mention a few of the big forum discussion topics, noting that these issues seem important to the players and at least saying that Larian is "looking into them to see if changes should be made."

[deleted inflammatory comment]

Did you see the interview I posted where they noted several issues that seem important and say they are looking into them and that they will be testing changes?



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People keep saying "why would anyone choose the evil path?"

One of the main reasons to be evil, in fiction or in real life, is the pursuit of power.

The druids aren't gonna give you any power. The tieflings aren't gonna give you any power. But the Absolute, if it is indeed some new god on the rise, might give you lots of power. Getting in on the ground floor with the Absolute cult could lead to big rewards down the line.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
People keep saying "why would anyone choose the evil path?"

One of the main reasons to be evil, in fiction or in real life, is the pursuit of power.

The druids aren't gonna give you any power. The tieflings aren't gonna give you any power. But the Absolute, if it is indeed some new god on the rise, might give you lots of power. Getting in on the ground floor with the Absolute cult could lead to big rewards down the line.



"Might" is the key word here. Except it doesn't. Nor is there any reason to assume it ever will. And some chars you meet make it clear that the Absolute wants you dead. That's before you even get to the goblins. There might also drop a pink rabbit from the sky turning you into a god at some point. Or not.
Btw this stuff is all spoiler territory.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I would like an official Community Update by Larian where they specifically mention a few of the big forum discussion topics, noting that these issues seem important to the players and at least saying that Larian is "looking into them to see if changes should be made."

[deleted inflammatory comment]

Did you see the interview I posted where they noted several issues that seem important and say they are looking into them and that they will be testing changes?


https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian This interview?

I've gone through this article and pulled all relevant quotes
-"players are horny, so we've put a lot of effort into making sure the parts are there" (data metrics, not feedback)
-"Vincke notes that ...encounter to save some children has experienced heavy save scumming" (data metrics, not feedback)
-"We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So we're going to...loaded die" (Feedback, but biased because Larian was already of this opinion. Also most people arguing against the RNG are claiming that it is unfair and have been proven wrong. But sure I'll give Larian half a point for this.)
-"Giving players things to do at the beginning...add a few things...to the fighter" is something Larian wants (Swen's personal opinion. Not based on any significant amount of forum posts)
-"There's been a group of people complaining about the fact that companions are snarky...we haven't put any of the 'good' characters in yet, so I think that will balance that" (Completely ignores feedback by saying that it's only because these companions are evil, not because they're unlikeable. I wouldn't categorize this as really 'listening' to our complaints.)
-Specific mention of evil options put in by the writers, but no mention of the players' response to this "evil" path (almost universally disliked/thought to be lacking depth/incentives)
-Specific mention of "surprised at how many betrayed the tieflings" even though Swen explicitly told us to test this path
-"The game will be moddable eventually" (implying that they won't listen to our feedback)
-"All of the things that people are suggesting were already on the list of things that we had to do...so they fit our roadmap. But there are things we hadn't thought of" (This is the closest we get to actual listening and responding to feedback, but note that nothing specific is mentioned)

This article? I count 3 explicit mentions of problems, 2 of which (snarky companions and evil path) are dismissed without really listening to the actual complaints. The other problem is about players not understanding RNG and is something Larian was already focusing on. Prior to this article, Larian said multiple times their opinion that "missing isn't fun." and had been considering loaded dice.

Edit: The takeaway I got from this article is that Larian has not as of yet considered doing any specific thing they weren't already planning on doing.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
People keep saying "why would anyone choose the evil path?"

One of the main reasons to be evil, in fiction or in real life, is the pursuit of power.

The druids aren't gonna give you any power. The tieflings aren't gonna give you any power. But the Absolute, if it is indeed some new god on the rise, might give you lots of power. Getting in on the ground floor with the Absolute cult could lead to big rewards down the line.


The problem with the absolute path is they ditch it when you get attacked by goblins after you help Minthara kill everyone in the grove. Besides, she also tries to kill you and the fact she doesn't is locked behind a high score dice roll, which clearly indicates it's a very marginal option in their minds.

I am concerned by this to be honest. Maybe the writers on the game are too teddybear friendly to properly give the evil path the chance it deserves. They should have hired people working on mature content like warhammer 40k or the such, who are not afraid to explore very grey areas.

Evil should be seductive, corruptive and offer great power indeed. It's not like it hasn't been explored in detail by big licenses like Star Wars, The lord of the rings, and so forth. It should not require much thinking to put together an interesting plot evolving around playing a vile character.

Last edited by Nyanko; 17/11/20 10:35 PM.
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I don't find fun playing as evil, not even for testing, but how about accepting the help of

Raphael, the demon lord (or something), that should be the best evil path, the other keeping the tadpole powers and joining the Absolute willingly, if the tadpole can be kept long term without problems, though these can't be tested much since EA ends


so far these are the real big evil paths that I think of, the rest of decisions either doesn't work for long or just gray areas.

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