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Originally Posted by LoneSky
I don't find fun playing as evil, not even for testing, but how about accepting the help of

Raphael, the demon lord (or something), that should be the best evil path, the other keeping the tadpole powers and joining the Absolute willingly, if the tadpole can be kept long term without problems, though these can't be tested much since EA ends


so far these are the real big evil paths that I think of, the rest of decisions either doesn't work for long or just gray areas.


I wouldn't necessarily even count R. as a guaranteed evil path. It depends on what he wants and how you act after a deal is made.
If he wants you to murder some people and you do that? Yeah, evil.
But if he wants
your soul, which would be used as currency in Hell, giving him a bit more influence/power in the Blood War?
Eh, not that evil. Especially if you plan on turning around and murdering him after you get what you want. It's not evil to kill a
demon lord, even if you already made a deal with him.

Just an example of how every scenario/offer could have a mix of alignment options depending on your actions prior to and after accepting a deal.

Similar to the big baddie. Join the big bad, gaining power, to ultimately kill the big bad? Chaotic or Neutral Good.
Join the big bad because you want power for yourself? Evil.

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Originally Posted by LoneSky


Don't try to change the game through some kind of mob pressure, that isn't feedback. If I work on a sculpture or painting, and somebody tells me they like this part and less so another, I may do some changes or not. Our posts can be a valuable resource, but also a waste of time reading them.

Just give suggestions and feedback without expecting anything.


You are confusing art with business, if you were a commissioned painter and the client gave you the money in advance you better be listening to their opinion right? Cause otherwise next time they won't hire you or buy any of your paintings.

Also I gave examples of other studios that are active commenting in forums and give official surveys to see what we want and what we like (Avalanche studios is a great example). So I don't think it is an excuse to say it would be easier to gather feedback silently, anyone can say "we are reading your feedback" and not be reading it at all. DOS2 didn't listen to the feedback at all...

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Originally Posted by Maerd
Larian never promised to implement gameplay ideas of random people from the forum and they should never do that. They wanted feedback, which helps them know what features people like and what dislike but Larian will be working according to their own vision, not a vision of some angry forum poster. Obviously some feedback on feedback would have been great but I understand why they want to keep silence. People just get angry if they are bluntly told that their ideas are horrible and won't be implemented.


On the contrary, it would be great if at least they said which ideas are bad or won't be implemented, that is at least something. My ideas aren't radical, there are so many other people posting about the same things... but it is clear that there are different types of gamers, some aren't so picky and would play anything really (that is why there are so many battle royales out there), others have an artistic background or are modders or game designers and understand that things could have been done differently.

Again, EA is supposed to be for gameplay feedback not for bug reporting, other companies do care about the community's gameplay ideas, have you heard of a game called No Man's Sky?

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Trying to cater to every vocal minority is a fool's errand.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester


One thing I'm worried about is how far they're willing to go with changes to the game. Swen gave the example of D:OS2 changing during EA, but from what I see it wasn't that much. BG3 needs much greater changes and a lot of work.


I have the same concern, they seem to have a vision of what they want that is cast in stone and I doubt they will go an extra mile to change that, even when there are so many BG3 EA reviews out there pointing out the game is lacking in so many aspects....

They have the chance to make a game changing RPG but if the game vision doesn't change then they are probably going to botch it.

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by Maerd
It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game.

yeah for normie randos, but I used bold and words in all caps to go along with my angry gamer attitude, surely that at least means that larian has got a small dedicated team working on implementing my suggestions



Why would someone be angry for their suggestions not implemented in the game if we are only one month in? That doesn't make any sense, but I have been part of other feedback exchanges with other studios and found that they were much more responsive and actively showing they cared for our input, making surveys and implementing our ideas in the game.

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

Last edited by drimaxus; 18/11/20 02:53 AM.
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Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!



Oh you bout to get wrecked.

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Let's not turn this into an English lesson.

Most of of us know the correct way to write and construct a sentence, but a forum is definitely in the category of casual writing, and thus more informal styles are often used and deemed acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Let's not turn this into an English lesson.

Most of of us know the correct way to write and construct a sentence, but a forum is definitely in the category of casual writing, and thus more informal styles are often used and deemed acceptable.



k00l

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Let's not turn this into an English lesson.

Most of of us know the correct way to write and construct a sentence, but a forum is definitely in the category of casual writing, and thus more informal styles are often used and deemed acceptable.



Yeah I know, chill, it is just a reply to the statement that using bold font is an "angry gamer attitude" instead of just bringing emphasis to a certain phrase. I also imagine many people commenting here aren't native English speakers, I am not, so no one is here to pick on anyone else's writing.

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I am sure they listen, analyse feedback and data.

However, players are not designers. If a subset of players doesn’t like or agree with Larian’s approach/ideals it’s irrelevant. They can’t and shouldn’t change the game based on the whims of the audience. On part, because audience most likely doesn’t know what they want, and because the audience will have different and conflicting ideas. In addition he audience has a very fragmented view of the game - just the unfinished content in the beta, and they most likely don’t know how to properly analyse said content in the context of game being developed (I remember Josh Sawyer saying how giving final sound effect to a gun, stopped people from complaining that it’s underpowered etc.).

Customers are also not a board of directors nor owners. Larian doesn’t work for us. What BG3 is, is decided by WotC and Larian. EA players are just willing, paying guinea pigs. And they pay close attention to what those guinea pigs do, say and how they react. But they won’t put them in charge of anything. Oink, oink.

Last edited by Wormerine; 18/11/20 04:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

Last edited by alice_ashpool; 18/11/20 04:21 PM.
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Originally Posted by Wormerine
I am sure they listen, analyse feedback and data.

However, players are not designers. If a subset of players doesn’t like or agree with Larian’s approach/ideals it’s irrelevant. They can’t and shouldn’t change the game based on the whims of the audience. On part, because audience most likely doesn’t know what they want, and because the audience will have different and conflicting ideas. In addition he audience has a very fragmented view of the game - just the unfinished content in the beta, and they most likely don’t know how to properly analyse said content in the context of game being developed (I remember Josh Sawyer saying how giving final sound effect to a gun, stopped people from complaining that it’s underpowered etc.).

Customers are also not a board of directors nor owners. Larian doesn’t work for us. What BG3 is, is decided by WotC and Larian. EA players are just willing, paying guinea pigs. And they pay close attention to what those guinea pigs do, say and how they react. But they won’t put them in charge of anything. Oink, oink.


Very on point. Perhaps not very tactful, but on point. wink At the end of the day, I think they listen, and I'm sure that some of their designers have already said some of the suggestions, but it comes down what they and ultimately WOTC want to tell and do. However, as pointed out before in other posts, the game will probably be moddable. And if that isn't good enough one can always learn how to become a game designer and pioneer said game suggestions in their own game. Anything is possible, but it takes time, work, and financial backing.

I don't mind being a beta tester/EA player that doesn't really get much say. I say my mind in what I think is plausible and would like to see, but I have no illusions that my opinion will be sought after or even implemented. I will still share my thoughts because that is what they asked. If they happen to see it and think its a great idea, I will be humbly honored that they took my input to heart. I think it is unfair to say though that they don't care about peoples ideas. That is a bit on the harsh side. I think they are indifferent at the worst, but still want our input all the same. It is how they gauge if something is popular or not so popular or needs adjustment. Input is always necessary to create anything. Anyways, enough of me rambling. Not singling you out or anything because I disagree, just felt chatty and sharing my opinion. silly smile

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Originally Posted by Wormerine


However, players are not designers. If a subset of players doesn’t like or agree with Larian’s approach/ideals it’s irrelevant. They can’t and shouldn’t change the game based on the whims of the audience. On part, because audience most likely doesn’t know what they want, and because the audience will have different and conflicting ideas. In addition he audience has a very fragmented view of the game - just the unfinished content in the beta, and they most likely don’t know how to properly analyse said content in the context of game being developed (I remember Josh Sawyer saying how giving final sound effect to a gun, stopped people from complaining that it’s underpowered etc.).

Customers are also not a board of directors nor owners. Larian doesn’t work for us. What BG3 is, is decided by WotC and Larian. EA players are just willing, paying guinea pigs. And they pay close attention to what those guinea pigs do, say and how they react. But they won’t put them in charge of anything. Oink, oink.



I would like to politely disagree with the part where the audience doesn't know what they want, I studied Game Design in uni and one of the first principles is to never be narrow minded or too jealous with your idea, because everyone plays the game differently and expects different things from the game. Some enjoy social aspects, others seek for escapism, others need expression, others competitivity. If you aren't flexible with your original idea then your game may end up satisfying only the gamers that think exactly like you, and disappointing the rest.

Plus usually things you thought would work well in the phase of game design may end up not working after being developed, sometimes things seemed fun the first hours you tested and then it just doesn't hold up well for a 70 hour campaign...

See No Man's Sky case for example. The game they had envisioned was a completely different game from what it actually is now, Sean Murray even said so during an interview. They had a more "single player oriented" game in mind where meeting with another human was a complete rarity, it was more focused on exploration etc. During these years and the many updates the game become something completely different from the original idea and it was all fueled by the community's request and ideas.

Last edited by drimaxus; 18/11/20 04:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”

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Originally Posted by Ghost King


I don't mind being a beta tester/EA player that doesn't really get much say. I say my mind in what I think is plausible and would like to see, but I have no illusions that my opinion will be sought after or even implemented. I will still share my thoughts because that is what they asked. If they happen to see it and think its a great idea, I will be humbly honored that they took my input to heart.


That is great, that you don't really mind having no say and enjoy it anyways. And it is true one feels humbly honoured when they take your thoughts into consideration or when you vote an idea that ends up being implemented, it happened for me with the game Generation Zero, I opened a thread for having a baseball bat to smash ticks and a lot of people got on board and the idea ended up being implemented (there will be people who won't like the idea but it was just optional). And it feels really good.

This whole month I found out my view is very much on the same page with most of the BG3 EA reviews and with many users that posted similar thoughts, this game needs a big rework. I am not claiming to have anything original to say, but I think all these voices should be heard, like other studios and games did in the past. Larian has a game here that receives a lot of attention from all the media and RPG community, if they do it wrong, it will be a big loss for them because they are in the spotlight now. As a business, it is always in the best interest to see what your consumers want and think about your product, and if possible, to fix it before it is too late.

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”



Your previous comment was 31 minutes ago. It must have taken you a long time to prepare this pompous comment, obviously you don't improvise and had to sit and think something to say. Don't be such a tryhard

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”


And if you want a writing tip, be careful with with the overuse of adverbs that finish with the -ly suffix, it makes the text sound reiterative and histrionic to use words like "impotently", "grammarly", "deliberately" and "methodically" in the same sentence.

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you're right of course, taking your time in writing and thinking things through before you speak, not to mention the application of effort are true demonstrations of character failure. so with that wisdom in mind i have decided that i will cease to try to apply punctuation in my posts. thanks smile

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Originally Posted by drimaxus

And if you want a writing tip, be careful with with the overuse of adverbs that finish with the -ly suffix, it makes the text sound reiterative and histrionic to use words like "impotently", "grammarly", "deliberately" and "methodically" in the same sentence.

also keep these coming, im writing all this down for later.

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