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You could just say who would you like to see as a companion, Aerie-style for example, instead of baiting with generalizing modern Woman image. And there is only one chance to make a first impression.

I do not like Shadowheart either, by the way. That's a character with a decent comeliness (AD&D 1st edition used that stat), but an average-low charisma. Well done, Larian, believable character, too bad she is taking a companion slot. Although why not, if there will be companions for everyone's taste.

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Originally Posted by Albannach

I find her so unpleasant and annoying, I don't care about her 'mysterious past'. I kill her and that takes care of that.
I generally killed Sebille in DOS2 because anyone who wants to murder you for merely looking at them probably needs to be put out of their misery.

HAHahahahahaha!
Can we bro-fist on that?
Sybille yeah that was her name.
Killed her too once just for that stunt.
But I reloaded afterwards cause I was still too curious to see what her Edgelording was all about. ^_^
And because I wanted a Rogue in my party.

Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
I like all the companions in their own way, but that doesn't stop me thinking that some of them are actual grade A morons (wyll and gale im looking at you)

What? Why them? Those are the most "sane" people there!! ^_^

Wyll is the literal Hero archetype and he shares my great hate for Goblins. =)
Gale is not that much of a Hero, but he too enjoys doing good stuff.
How are they moronic? laugh


Originally Posted by Verte
Both pay attention to conventions and try to fit into the male worldview of a good girl.


Its not a worldview to behave logically and normal though.
In your defense I do not know much about Shar-Clerics and from what I found out ingame, Shar is a Goddess I would never consider to worship.
Shar is a Deity of Secrets though. Which also means of manipulation.
Which means: Of decieving others.

Shadowheart could therefore play the part of a very benevolent person! Maybe even try to be heroic and cheerful, or optimistic?
You know - the clever path of being a nasty, manipulative t... otally smart, evil Cleric. =)
But she isn't.

I totally expect that at some point LarianStudio's will find a suuuuuuper believable reason for all of her character. If we recieve enough flashback material about her that is.
So that all will be forgiven and I feel so bad that I had such an unimpressed and annoyed opinion of her in the past.
I will be redeemed...
... in simping service to this high Lady (LOL)...
... and kiss her feet like the lowly male that I am. (snort)

Since this seems to be societys worldview of a good boy that is!
" She is a Wamen! All Wamen are Queeeeeeeens! "

xD

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu

Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
I like all the companions in their own way, but that doesn't stop me thinking that some of them are actual grade A morons (wyll and gale im looking at you)

What? Why them? Those are the most "sane" people there!! ^_^

Wyll is the literal Hero archetype and he shares my great hate for Goblins. =)
Gale is not that much of a Hero, but he too enjoys doing good stuff.
How are they moronic? laugh

Wyll was seduced into selling his soul by a sexy cambion lady who promised him power. Gale implanted himself with a nuclear bomb because he was horny for a goddess.

Last edited by alice_ashpool; 18/11/20 09:02 PM.
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From datamining we know that SH was
tortured

Her memory is wiped. She has reasons to not play pleasant. She's simply pragmatic beside that. I see real people more whiny than her here. Just simply kill her and go further.

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I don't like her either, but i somehow didn't feel the need to make an entire thread about it.

I'm not a huge fan of any of the current companions, we seem to have been lumped in with the rejects, failures, and edgy little gremlins that no one else will take.

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Originally Posted by Atlus
The biggest issue with Shadowheart is that it is very easy to mess up the pacing of her personal story. The first time I played the game, I assumed that the tadpole was a real threat and that I needed to try and make some hard decisions about when to rest. This had the result of making Shadowheart come off as a aggressively fearful person which, understandably for the player character, makes it hard for you to act warmly towards her. In your mind, as the player, you've survived 4 days worth of battles but Shadhowheart will only see it as "day one" mechanically. Of course no one would trust you on day one. In this sense, I think the gameplay can unchain her personal story in a bad way.

The second time around, I took a long rest after every two or so battles and it completely changed her character. She went from someone who would effectively say: "Go fuck yourself" every time I would ask a question about our current predicament (Note: I play in Spanish and the translations change somewhat frequently so have that in mind) to someone who is genuinely afraid of the tadpole but, also, genuinely afraid about what's going to happen to her when she has to continue her mission. On my second playthrough, she seemed more tortured than defensive. Rightfully scared. To truly get this understanding of her character, I had to ignore what the game told me about resting which I think is a problem (A good quote I read on reddit about this situation: "You can lie to the character but don't like to the player" which I think fits in this specific scenario (although, I admit that I believe unreliable narration has its points at times.)

Overall, I went from disliking Shadowheart (& Astarion) the most to actually liking them the most. For the most part, I have fear that all of these characters will fall along the generic Anti-Hero turned hero, fantasy vibe that seems to be spouting up everywhere but Shadowheart & Astarion do seem to show actual weight and understanding of their actions when their facades break. I think it'll be interesting to examine these characters further when we have more information.

+1 I did the same thing
Except for what you said about Astarion. I can't get over his sneering tone every time I greet him.

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We can't say anything definitive about Shadowheart based on early access. Liking her or not, that's up to each of us.

So this is just my opinion about Shadowheart; I was in a similar situation in another game, Dragon Age, with Morrigan. But still I assumed the risk, and gave her a chance, because I felt she needed my help more than anyone in the party. She changed a lot, and I loved how that affected the story, up to DA Inquisition and will continue beyond that.

Shadowheart could end differently, we can't know yet. Worth trying.
So far she is an interesting character. Could be a fun journey discovering her story. Maybe. Who knows...

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Originally Posted by Atlus

I wish if you were playing a mage character, the narrator would give you a understanding of how horrific what Karsus
did to the weave was and the fact that Gale even attempted it should definitely make you think “This dude has no moral boundaries and definitely has threatened more innocent lives than any of your evil companions.” Kinda like a power for a price situation with the cost being unnatural obsession.

I like the juxtaposition between his "good face" and "polite manner" and the fact that he has the ambitions, drive and morals of a neutral evil character. Killing a single goblin in cold blood: nope, pointless, vindictive even; causing the deaths of thousands upon thousands to become a the most powerful wizard ever: yep, every time, no hesitation

but after all that he ends up bumped back down to lvl 1 with a flayer-parasite in his head. can you say owned?

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The alignment system is so crude but I would say:

Astarion: Neutral Evil (Chaotic leaning)
Lae'zel: Neutral Evil (Lawful leaning)
Shadowheart: Neutral (Lawful leaning)
Wyll: Chaotic Neutral (Good leaning)
Gale: Neutral Evil but also very good at hiding it.

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Wyll pisses me off to no end with the unwarranted arrogance and clear bullshit facade. Turns out he is an Incel to some winged skank dragging him about like some horny puppy missing his masters leg. Sort your own life out mate ain't got no time for your puppydog crap. Mmm be good if you could turn him into a soul coin to buy the services of his cambion though.

I kind of get Lae'zel, reminds me of being in the army. That is of course before you realise everything taught to you is a steaming pile of indoctrination. Going to be interesting when she finds out her entire world view is a load of bollocks to make her a more compliant minion.

Gale is okay, he banged a god... most dudes would have just put that down to experience and used it to bro-down in the pub. However he ruined that when he did some dumb shit to get her back. I could relate if I was 14, Ill jump off that bridge baby!!! type of thing. Dumbarse.

Astarion is walking melodrama with a side order of complete dickhead. I could probably drink enough Jack Daniels to find him girly enough to sleep with but honesly Mr Jack could convince most people to join the menage a troi with the ogre and bugbear in the barn. In short I smashed his head in every playthough so far (350hrs).

I agree Shadowheart comes across as "strong female character" without the Marysue. I mean if you are trying to hide your nature I would imagine acting altrusitic would be a better guise no? Apparently being perpetually on the rag and tearing the balls off anyone asks you a question is the way forward (ladyballs too). I would have thought a clerics diety would be pretty obvious and a common talking point to people who meet them? If you say "hey who do you pray to then Shadowheart" and she replies "A nice little god called nonyafucking business now fuck off and die" some people may think "hey maybe this bird has something to hide"?

Don't get me wrong as far as NPC's are concerned they are oscar winning if you compare it to "Mass Effect my face is tired" on release. Lots of other NPC's are really good. Wouldn't mind recruiting that Tiefling Bard that sings, not all companions need a bloody tadpole.

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I like her, but I feel like her disapproval and approval is way too inconsistent, probably the worst out of any character.

If you don't like her you can always just kill her instead of taking her along.

Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
If you say "hey who do you pray to then Shadowheart" and she replies "A nice little god called nonyafucking business now fuck off and die" some people may think "hey maybe this bird has something to hide"?


She only does that if you pry, and quite frankly I hate people who pry too and people who think that they're entitled to inject themselves into the personal lives and affairs of others.
Entire industries revolve around it, look no further than gossip magazines and gossip in general surrounding celebrities. But people in general do it and I hate it with a passion.
Her response is perfectly natural for someone in her position imo, if she doesn't want to tell you and tells you that she doesn't and you keep going she's in the right for getting mad.

Last edited by Svalr; 18/11/20 11:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by Verte
I could imagine a priestess of Shar whose politeness cause mass puke and a githyanki warrior who enjoys courteous conversations. Both pay attention to conventions and try to fit into the male worldview of a good girl.

Larian please make both old and ugly so no one will care


I mean, why is Halsin popular? It isn't because he's good leader or has performed heroic deeds. dude's jacked, that's all. The superficial will always matter, whether in life or video games. Reality is that your companions are very much a group of people that would not associate with each other unless under extreme circumstances, tadpole in their brains. The only ones that, I believe, would willing group up outside of an extreme situation are Gale and Wyll, and even then Gale is doubtful. Also Astarion is a Toreador mixed with Ventrue, so it's not surprising people find him popular.

Last edited by FelLich; 18/11/20 11:51 PM.
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Other than the game literally screaming that it wants you to romance her, I have no issues with Shadowheart.

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The game screams at you to romance all of them...

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Originally Posted by Xeneize
Other than the game literally screaming that it wants you to romance her, I have no issues with Shadowheart.



I felt quite the opposite, you have to try harder with her to get on her good side.
Gale was the one who I felt the game was nudging me in the direction of constantly and I wasn't interested in him even.

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Originally Posted by Svalr
Originally Posted by Xeneize
Other than the game literally screaming that it wants you to romance her, I have no issues with Shadowheart.

I felt quite the opposite, you have to try harder with her to get on her good side.
Gale was the one who I felt the game was nudging me in the direction of constantly and I wasn't interested in him even.

There's a difference between "the game" and "each character" screaming at you to romance them.

Astarion, Lae''zel, and Gale all explicitly scream at you to romance them.
The game (presenting SH as a mystery, making her one of the first companions you come across on the beach, the fact that she has a tender fireside-chat scene instead of a fuck scene) is steering you towards her much more so than to Wyll or Lae'zel.
Wyll...idk he's busy screaming at his love interest.

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Originally Posted by FelLich
The game screams at you to romance all of them...


Yep, and Astarion was the only one yellow marked for me at tiefling party. He was very hmm open about his needs, when the recruitment was the only time he spent few mins in the party. Go fiddle yourself, mate...


About Gale, Alice put it perfectly in words. There is something off with him.

Last edited by Verte; 19/11/20 12:08 AM.
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I mean anyone who would turn themselves into a nuclear bomb, because rejection, is probably off their meds.

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I have played the early access. I say this and probably if i am right someone will remember this words.

I think Shadowheart worship of Shar is not genuine at all. I think she is indeed a cleric but nof ot Shar. And i think she is costantly brainwashed. There are many instances where she show genuinely a good side and she show to care. However i do believe she is a quite a lot conflicted character and part of her true self can surface out if not all if she manage to recover the memory.

To me she is just Brainwashed with no memories. And her reactions with the temple of Selune... Well that speaks a lot to me.

((would also explain why her approval is inconsistent at time. ))


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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Svalr
Originally Posted by Xeneize
Other than the game literally screaming that it wants you to romance her, I have no issues with Shadowheart.

I felt quite the opposite, you have to try harder with her to get on her good side.
Gale was the one who I felt the game was nudging me in the direction of constantly and I wasn't interested in him even.

There's a difference between "the game" and "each character" screaming at you to romance them.

Astarion, Lae''zel, and Gale all explicitly scream at you to romance them.
The game (presenting SH as a mystery, making her one of the first companions you come across on the beach, the fact that she has a tender fireside-chat scene instead of a fuck scene) is steering you towards her much more so than to Wyll or Lae'zel.
Wyll...idk he's busy screaming at his love interest.


I mean Lae'Zel is the first one you run into and Shadowheart being a mystery makes sense story-wise.
It makes sense why she'd hide her worship and who she is.

I don't think that Lae'Zel is telling the whole truth either, and Gale also hides his past too.

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