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Originally Posted by ash elemental

Well, the op has written that this fictional female character "represents the modern day woman". If you hate a character who at the same time is representing to you an entire group of people, that implies you also hate this specific group.


Misogynism is deep haterd of women. Not some woman, not a woman, not a certain type of woman, ALL women. If the dislike of a certain personality type is considered a deep bigoted hatred towards everyone with the same private parts that particular person happens to have then by default everyone on earth is criminally insane.

People shouldn't throw damning insults about in an attempt to delete them and their opinion because they disagree with their statements. If you disagree then use your words, don't demand the moderator delete their post because (insert cancel culture buzzword). I am pretty sure from the context and wording the OP was being satirical. If you get offended to the point you feel the need to demand the erasure an innocuous comment from a bloody game forum then maybe it isn't OP with the hate issues? Just saying.


Originally Posted by FelLich

Finally, the Approval and Disapproval system requires interjection on the companions part. Having them just silently like or dislike something really hurts getting a feel for the kind of person they really are.


I think that would be a good addition but the work involved in adding this to every conversation would be quite laborious. Imagine everytime you see "Gale approves" he actually said something? Hey I approve of you drinking from the well, good job!!. Lol, dunno.

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Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

Misogynism is deep haterd of women. Not some woman, not a woman, not a certain type of woman, ALL women. If the dislike of a certain personality type is considered a deep bigoted hatred towards everyone with the same private parts that particular person happens to have then by default everyone on earth is criminally insane.

People shouldn't throw damning insults about in an attempt to delete them and their opinion because they disagree with their statements. If you disagree then use your words, don't demand the moderator delete their post because (insert cancel culture buzzword). I am pretty sure from the context and wording the OP was being satirical. If you get offended to the point you feel the need to demand the erasure an innocuous comment from a bloody game forum then maybe it isn't OP with the hate issues? Just saying.

Modern day woman isn't a personality type. A personality is not something you assign based on gender, or really any other feature unrelated to character, such as sexual orientation, or race.

You might be pretty sure that the OP was being satirical, but satire attempts can be mysoginistic, homophobic, racists etc. It's easy to dismiss it as "just humor", especially if one is not the target group.

I also haven't demanded anything from mods in here, so perhaps you should consider your own advice here.

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I really disagree with OP here, while I don't particularly like Shadowheart, I don't think she is bad, and her character and actions are very understandable. Also it is very human to do something and then only realize the exact scope of it when you are finally left with the consequences, it is called regret.

To the better discussion...

Wizards kinda do be like that though, going for amazing cosmic power thinking they can handle it and then getting way over their head. My 4e Wizard character unintentionally got involved with demons and while he has (kinda) overcame that to become stronger, said involvement endangered the party and continues to endanger the party. Gale comparatively is a walking time bomb because he got involved with things he shouldn't. Wizards delve into the power of magic and get stronger if they overcome falling to it, or they cause great unintentional disaster.

Astarion I don't think he is completely evil, like he is clearly on the evil side, that is to be completely certain, but he has his moments and I think involvement with our characters will give him a a path to semi redemption

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But hey in general to whoever tries to femsplain me here and thinks I am a massagonist (yeah can't remember that term one english term ^^)
and secretely thinks i am oldfashioned and patriarchircal and all that stuff

I link to you the last seconds of what I COINCIDENTALLY just found on GlobalistTube. xD
Have fun. ^^ https://youtu.be/l5TuV1OrG8A?t=1651

Shadowheart should check her sass previlige muahahahahahahaha!


Originally Posted by alice_ashpool

Wyll was seduced into selling his soul by a sexy cambion lady who promised him power. Gale implanted himself with a nuclear bomb because he was horny for a goddess.


Buwh wha- hubawha-?! ^^

Wyll did not KNEW she was a Devil and Mizora tricked him.
She offered "help" and seemed reliable probably.

And Gale could not know that a divine part of Mystra, whatever that part was, would over time become some wierd kind of magical blackhole.
I too would not expect that. Would you? This energy-something that Gale freed from whatever sealed box has changed nature all by itself it seems.
Does have a lot of common with the story of Pandora's box I must say.
As in it was not worth opening it.
Still - Wyll has no more powers at his disposal to safe those in need.
And Gale is trying to solve his a problem he couldn't see coming.

While Astarion - the generic badboy ( that I am awkwardly synched up with ^^; )
is just having a blast and laughs at everyone's misfortune and tries to profit from it without any shame. wink
( But I guess nobody expects an overly virtuous persona from a Vampirespawn. )

Last edited by JustAnotherBaldu; 19/11/20 09:43 AM.
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Well the guy you just quoted sounds like a mysognistic incel who admits he wants a girl(pedo?) and not a woman.


Last edited by Umsche; 19/11/20 09:41 AM.
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
But hey in general to whoever tries to femsplain me here and thinks I am a massagonist (yeah can't remember that term one english term ^^)
and secretely thinks i am oldfashioned and patriarchircal and all that stuff

I link to you the last seconds of what I COINCIDENTALLY just found on GlobalistTube. xD
Have fun. ^^ https://youtu.be/l5TuV1OrG8A?t=1651


Shadowheart should check her sass previlige muahahahahahahaha!


Why I have the feeling it is Wham christmas song or another crap trap

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
But hey in general to whoever tries to femsplain me here and thinks I am a massagonist (yeah can't remember that term one english term ^^)
and secretely thinks i am oldfashioned and patriarchircal and all that stuff

I link to you the last seconds of what I COINCIDENTALLY just found on GlobalistTube. xD
Have fun. ^^ https://youtu.be/l5TuV1OrG8A?t=1651

Shadowheart should check her sass previlige muahahahahahahaha!

could you continue to write more on this topic, and in this particular style please

Last edited by alice_ashpool; 19/11/20 09:56 AM.
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@alice
Just because we all bored that the EarlyAccess content is over and we must entertain ourself with drama now? wink

But you must admit Wyll and Gale are victims of their own naivety.
Allthough one has to ask themself, if they do not have the money to learn spells like a Wizard, or caught the eye of a god and got Cleric Spells, why not sell your Soul to a Devil to do some good?

Is Wyll an utter idiot? Or is he a truly selfless person?
Apparently selling your Soul to a Devil means you won't reincarnate normally anymore.
Instead you will do so as a Devil and apparently, for all eternity.


But what are we as people truly?
Are we Mortals?
Are we Humans?
Are we our Soul?

I say we are none of that. What we are in our truest essence, is our memorys and our ideals & values.
And if that value demands Justice and Heroism at the cost of only our own otherwise useless Soul for damnation, so be it?!
True selfsacrifice in its purest form.

Wyll might have become a powerful person in the future who knows? Maybe even without a Devils support.
But he chose the guaranteed route for quick abilitys in the very near future.
I respect his bravery.

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As of now Shadowheart is pretty much my second favourite character of the followers. Sure, her name is ridiculous, she's a fair edgy Mary Sue and suffers quite a lot from main-charactritis, but she seems to be the most interesting and well-written character of the lot. It's pretty well communicated that she's shit at being evil. She doesn't like getting involved in things that doesn't concern her but doesn't like to cause people harm if it can be avoided either. The drunken regret scene after the Grove Massacre was a nice touch. It's very nice to have an evil character who isn't Stupid Evil.

My favourite is still Gale, though, just because of his immediate friendly and charming demeanour (arrogance aside). It was particularly nice to have somebody actually compliment you when he likes what you do as contrast to the three assholes in the group who mainly whine. I agree that something seems off about him, though. I hope it's not just narrative disconnect.

Last edited by Dexai; 19/11/20 11:44 AM.

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I wan't very interested in Shadow Heart, but reading this topic, I think it could be more interesting than I thought. In forgotten there are interesting stories about clerics changing deities. Shadow Heart amnesia might mean that she was a cleric of another god/godess that was tricked by Shar. Or maybe like the story on the first temple, that she gave up her memories for Shar, but that sacrifice wasn't really appreciated. If she was the cleric from that story, it could be interesting that she was given another chance to not end in the wall of souls.

The hag plays with the "woman need rescue" trope when she pretends to be a "poor old lady" with Wyll falling for it. By the way, if you play as a wizard and tell Wyll that you learned your moves by studying, he says that he never liked to study. As a rich noble, he could have paid to learn magic, he just wanted the easy path. And made a deal not fully understanding what he was agreeing to. That doesn't make him evil, but he isn't the brighest either. Which is reinforced by his reaction with Ethel and other "want to be a famous hero" situations. So maybe, an evil companion who played the pleasing woman pretending to be nice, good and compliant could have worked better for the OP. A truly deceitful evil character. XD

And Gale, while nice, is manipulative. That is why he waits until he has no choice to tell about his situation, even if it could literally explode at any time. Which is logical from a selfpreservation point of view, but manipulative anyway.

Anyway, I agree that the game would improve if there were more intelligent evil characters/route and more intelligent good characters/route.

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I think of shadowheart as a cheerleader, then it all makes sense.

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You dont have to like every character, not every character is designed to be likeable by everyone. Trying to draw parallels between "modern women" and "karens" in order to reinforce your stance for why you dislike a character is an interesting direction but all its really doing is fishing for drama and looks like a rant, without providing any really useful constructive feedback. Sort of what you would expect to see on 4chan. Saying she is a wannabe strong & independent looks more like a jaded perception. If you actually try out some different options you will find that she will stand up for herself. E.g. play a Gith and try to call her bluff when you first meet her, see what happens to you. Or just dont pick her up from the starting area e.t.c. My own stance on her is that, sure she has a pretty face, but much like Laezel they arent intended to be likeable friendly personalities. Her mildly disgusted reaction to killing the tieflings falls inline with her conflicted stance on her religion and hints at a messed up upbringing, if you save the tiefliings she mentions that she didnt think she would care about what happens to them so its a conflict of character (its like fricking anakin all over again...and your palpatine) Making a bunch of white washed goody two shoes characters with no flaws doesnt make it easy to build a compelling narative. Just look at Dragon Age as an example, even characters that seem high on order and being strong tend to have something messed up about them e.g. blackwall. I dont think the character is perfect, or any are for that matter, but considering how this is just the early stages of the game there is still room for character development and explanation. You cant judge a book by its cover, especially when the books intentionally trying to tell you to stop asking questions and mind your own business, sure its a pain in the ass tho for lore nerds that want all the info.

Basically in the real world conflicts of character and things and people being neither black or white but instead grey is more common and realistic than one dimentional decisions and characters.

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Originally Posted by FelLich
He also in my mind just fits a bunch of vampire tropes and doesn't really interest me. Though I suppose if he was a woman I'd probably pay more attention...so there's that.


Heh, and if Shadowheart was a guy, I'd probably pay more attention. We need mods that turn Astarion into a sexy woman in a low cut dress and Shadowheart into Clark Gable cosplaying as Conan the Barbarian. How opinions would change! wink

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Originally Posted by Tarlonniel

Heh, and if Shadowheart was a guy, I'd probably pay more attention. We need mods that turn Astarion into a sexy woman in a low cut dress and Shadowheart into Clark Gable cosplaying as Conan the Barbarian. How opinions would change! wink



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Haven't really read the thread, but she reminds me of Kerillian from Vermintide 2, if anyone here's played that. So, I don't have real problems with her character, as long as there is some sort of redemption arc and/or she becomes more pleasant to interact with as the game goes on. If it's just full-on Kerillian for the entire game, that'll get old real quick.

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I've enjoyed how every companion in BG3 is hiding something from you.

What makes Shadowheart uniquely more interesting is the extra layer that beyond her deceptions, it seems like she doesn't know her own story fully. Her story is the one I am currently looking forward to explore the most.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu

Shadowheart represents the modern day Woman.


aight ima head out.

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It is fun with this thread to see the folks who just read the first bit then immediately comment.

Originally Posted by Tarlonniel

Heh, and if Shadowheart was a guy, I'd probably pay more attention. We need mods that turn Astarion into a sexy woman in a low cut dress and Shadowheart into Clark Gable cosplaying as Conan the Barbarian. How opinions would change! wink


What's funny is that if Shadowheart were a dude this thread would not exist. If Astarion was a woman I wonder if people would be offended about their attitude or if they'd like it. Considering someone was offended by the Goblins having a cockney accent everything and anything is possible.

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Hmmm I have a slightly different opinion about Shadowheart - I really enjoy her company - she is harsh at first, but this is understandable - but when she starts to open, she became a very cool companion.
I'm 100% sure that on full release I'm taking Shadowheart and Laezel to my group.

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Originally Posted by FelLich
What's funny is that if Shadowheart were a dude this thread would not exist.


You don't think we'd get a thread about Shadowheart representing the modern day Man? I mean, it's obvious - just like so many modern Men I know, he would be male, and have opinions, and generally behave like a human being! But I don't know if video games are ready for that.

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