Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Asseronia
Hmmm I have a slightly different opinion about Shadowheart - I really enjoy her company - she is harsh at first, but this is understandable - but when she starts to open, she became a very cool companion.
I'm 100% sure that on full release I'm taking Shadowheart and Laezel to my group.


Question from a non-EA player (so please no spoilers wink ): is Shadowheart this "not actually evil, just tragic backstory broken girl" cliche? I want to like her, but I'm not a fan of that trope.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Actually shadowheart isn't dat good written.

She is totally cliche. Completely the "I'm mean but it's because I'm soft and broken inside please help me love me, bring me light".

TO compare, if you are looking for companions well-written, with depths, personality and consistency, you should look at pathfinder.

Amiri is a classical yet interesting barbarian with a story she didn't throw in your face.
Jaethal is a good bad companion, well-written, with spirit and a true strong-mind.
And we could keep going...

The companions ni BG3 are... nice but, from my point of view, far from amazing and memorable for some of them. There is too much inconsistency in their writing.

PS: people should be more open to the opinions different from theirs. Even if the OP can be considered clumsy in the way he present his opinion, it doesn't mean all he means is stupid.
Shadowheart is this obvious false bad girl and the game really want you to get it fast and there is no fun talking to a girl which is mean knowing she will soft with time and patience. And yet, I'm one of this gamers fond of romance.
So I would like to do this one but she is just as obvious as not-dat-good-written.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Shadowheart might not be very original, but neither are Amiri and Jaethal. It doesn't mean she is badly written. I'm surprised you didn't mention Octavia, a companion who was actually kind original for an RPG (but that doesn't mean she was well written)


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Abits
Shadowheart might not be very original, but neither are Amiri and Jaethal. It doesn't mean she is badly written. I'm surprised you didn't mention Octavia, a companion who was actually kind original for an RPG (but that doesn't mean she was well written)


This.

In fact, Amiri was terrible, easily the worst companion next to Linzi, and Jaethal had potential but was underdrawn. Though I wouldn't necessarily call "flirty free spirit" all that original either.

To be fair though, originality does not really matter in terms of making a character compelling. It's all in the execution.

And while there are things BG3 could learn from PF:KM, I would not say how to make good companions is among those. The companions in that game were very hit-or-miss and also suffered from the lackluster translation from Russian to English in some cases.

Joined: Nov 2020
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Nov 2020
Second that. I've enjoyed PK as a fantasy adventure, but the only companions that stood out for me were Jubilost and Nok-Nok. Jubilost, because of his personal quest and motivations, and Nok-Nok for his entire storyline. I expected the little guy to be only there for comic relief, and was pleasantly disappointed.

From the top of my head, most memorable companions were in Planescape Torment, and from more recent games Pillars of Eternity.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Cleric of Innuendo
Offline
Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
I didn't really gel with many of the PFKM companions. They were okay, but I wouldn't have chosen many of them as characters if I was setting a game up.

Amiri was one of Pathfinder's Iconics, and thus she started out as a stereotype before hitting PFKM. It was why you couldn't romance her, apparently. Paizo were uncomfortable with her potentially having a sexual element. As a companion I found her grating and boring; every stereotype Barbarian character rolled into one.

Jaethal was far too "oooh, I'm a special emo snowflake" for my tastes. The worst of being an elf and a voluntary undead. I rarely took her along because healing her was a pain in the arse and required the clerics to take feats to stop hurting her every time they cast group healing. Yes, she was a powerhouse in combat and had useful skills, but the downsides were too much for me to go down that route. I recall that the only times I really took her along was when I was playing a Necromancer or evil Cleric, and that was mainly for flavour.

Linzi... urgh. Another Imoen chirpy optimistic pain in the posterior. I rarely take to that sort of NPC in games.


So yes, writing NPC companions for CRPGs is tough. What some people like, others will hate. What some see as stereotyped and lazy, others see as iconic and defining. The answer to interesting companions in tabletop gaming is to write your own, but that doesn't work in a CRPG where they have established backstories and are important sources of plot.

Joined: Mar 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
I'm replying pathfinder now so it's rather fresh, and I think the biggest problem with the companions there is pacing. You could play for hours without any progress in their stories most of which are completely disconnected from the main plot.


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
Joined: Nov 2020
L
stranger
Offline
stranger
L
Joined: Nov 2020
My only issue with Shadowheart is that when she is a being a bitch, I don't get to bitch back. Our dialogue options are so frustrating when she is acting like an arrogant arse. But if they got her to approve of us getting into fights with her when she is being a bitch, I would like her more, and I would recruit her again (which I only did in my first playthough).
PS: the fact you miss Aerie really says a lot about you. I mean, Aerie, the lvl 20 priestess/mage who still thought herself worthless whithout a strong rashemi berserker and his hamster around.... I mean, come on. Grow up....

Joined: Oct 2020
F
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
F
Joined: Oct 2020
KotoR 1&2 the companions were good, swtor had some good ones and some garbage ones. Mass Effects 1 & 2 companions were pretty good though I'll admit Jacob seemed irrelevant, same goes for the companions introduced in 3, I genuinely remember nothing of Vega. Fallout 4's companions were alright, though that whole game wasn't fleshed out enough.

The thing with Shadowheart is mainly her bitchyness comes from when you're trying to pry/learn more and considering she's a Shar disciple it makes sense. She has a general dismissal of the Grove and its problems but so did all the others except Wyll. Hell, Wyll is the only one with a hard red line for conscience. As for companions being "original" They're all a repeat of something previous, maybe just with a different coat of paint, plenty of tropes for everyone.

Joined: Sep 2017
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2017
Let's behave like adults and not resort to insults or passive-aggressiveness towards others.

Joined: Oct 2020
L
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
L
Joined: Oct 2020
I want to like Shadowheart.

She does not make it easy. Well spoken, attentive, witty. But she is and remains what I would call " Edge thot" and it is difficult to pull her out of that crude, rude and unkind description. Lae'zel is easier to learn about and understand their point of view -- and her race is meant to be worse than the Lolth Drow for indoctrination and excessive war crimes.

I feel as though she'll only become 'fun' or 'interesting' when you reach Baldurs gate proper and some of her memory is restored. If ever. Predicting she's actually a Sélunite -- would explain a lot. But I'm not holding my breath.


I'm getting Sebille and Lohse flashbacks from DOS2; Larian seem to like their mind-controlled or mentally unstable female characters. Here's hoping they get some edits.

Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
I never said Amiri was "original".
Did I need to quote myself ?
"Amiri was a classical barbarian"

It would be cool to have a discussion with people who actually doesn't twist my words.

Let's behave like adults

Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Atlus
Is there a way to make forum moderators (as compared to forum admins; people currently moderating) from some of the users who are here constantly and are able to discuss things in a mature manner?


Giving AUTHORITY to random strangers sounds like an excellent idea. Mind flayers do it, why shouldn't everyone?

I await my ring of power. I'll use it responsibly. Promise. offtopic rpg003 evil

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Asseronia
Hmmm I have a slightly different opinion about Shadowheart - I really enjoy her company - she is harsh at first, but this is understandable - but when she starts to open, she became a very cool companion.
I'm 100% sure that on full release I'm taking Shadowheart and Laezel to my group.


Question from a non-EA player (so please no spoilers wink ): is Shadowheart this "not actually evil, just tragic backstory broken girl" cliche? I want to like her, but I'm not a fan of that trope.


There's strong hints that that might be the case (or something trope adjacent) but it's still not enough of her story implemented to say for certain. But yes I think it is likely.

As for how she currently is she's mostly just portrayed as "Evil, but not completely without conscience".


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Mar 2015
member
Offline
member
Joined: Mar 2015
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
She is not hot stuff. She only looks hot. But she is not hot stuff.


I actually didn't much like the cast so far. I recruited them for solely usefulness/classes.

Astarion was included because I needed a rogue. Lae'zel was included because I needed a tank. Shadowheart was included because I needed a healer.

I feel like I am allying with them to survive - and as soon as that is done, I'll gladly part ways.

Joined: Jul 2019
member
Offline
member
Joined: Jul 2019
She seems like she has the potential to have more depth to her than a specific personality type like you're suggesting.

I think it's either currently bugged or missing progression content. If notnthen the writing is very, very bad and needs to be improved.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Asseronia
Hmmm I have a slightly different opinion about Shadowheart - I really enjoy her company - she is harsh at first, but this is understandable - but when she starts to open, she became a very cool companion.
I'm 100% sure that on full release I'm taking Shadowheart and Laezel to my group.


Question from a non-EA player (so please no spoilers wink ): is Shadowheart this "not actually evil, just tragic backstory broken girl" cliche? I want to like her, but I'm not a fan of that trope.


There's strong hints that that might be the case (or something trope adjacent) but it's still not enough of her story implemented to say for certain. But yes I think it is likely.


Daamn, it seems I'm not going to like any of them... Well, it was to be expected with me being so fussy, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Dexai
As for how she currently is she's mostly just portrayed as "Evil, but not completely without conscience".


That would be nice if it was the case. I'd be ok with "evil lite" (if it's well done).

Anyway, thank you for the answer! smile

Joined: Oct 2020
J
stranger
Offline
stranger
J
Joined: Oct 2020
Interesting how many people dislike her character.

With her atrocious stats - I'm thinking Shadowheart is going to have a significant reveal - possibly even changing class or multiclassing.

Joined: Oct 2020
F
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
F
Joined: Oct 2020
Aren't her stats just the cleric default stats? At this point I want to see what the rest of the companions (unreleased) ones are like.

Joined: Oct 2020
J
stranger
Offline
stranger
J
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by FelLich
Aren't her stats just the cleric default stats?


No. That might have been easier to work with.

Originally Posted by FelLich
At this point I want to see what the rest of the companions (unreleased) ones are like.


Amen, I really wanted a party full of Drow and that one human for comedic relief. Unlikely to happen with a cast of origin characters - I'd have to do some multiplayer shenanigans and i wont get any 'extra' story. Like astarians master or whatever that box shadowheart has.

Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5