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Originally Posted by Abits
I'm replying pathfinder now so it's rather fresh, and I think the biggest problem with the companions there is pacing. You could play for hours without any progress in their stories most of which are completely disconnected from the main plot.


Isn't Chris Avellone part of the writing team on that game? You know one of the writers/founders of Obsidian that got pushed off to the side during Pillars of Eternity. I remember him saying that Pillars of Eternity was taken in a different direction with the writing focusing more on side quests / companions than the main plot.

oh here we go:


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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Abits
I'm replying pathfinder now so it's rather fresh, and I think the biggest problem with the companions there is pacing. You could play for hours without any progress in their stories most of which are completely disconnected from the main plot.


Isn't Chris Avellone part of the writing team on that game? You know one of the writers/founders of Obsidian that got pushed off to the side during Pillars of Eternity. I remember him saying that Pillars of Eternity was taken in a different direction with the writing focusing more on side quests / companions than the main plot.

oh here we go:



Interesting, since the first Pillars actually had a pretty strong main plot and shallow companions. I suppose he might claim this was due to his lingering influence?

The description does fit Deadfire, though.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu


She is not hot stuff. She only looks hot. But she is not hot stuff.

Being never satisfied with anything does not give someone character depth. And I could give a sh°t about her Shar-Cleric Amnesia. She signed up for this. So this is no excuse for anything.


She's just always grumpy. I suspect there will be more companion choices in the finished game and then we'll just choose someone else.

But right now the choices are limited and a cleric is certainly useful. So I'll just take her along but not talk to her.

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr


Amiri is a classical yet interesting barbarian with a story she didn't throw in your face.
Jaethal is a good bad companion, well-written, with spirit and a true strong-mind.
And we could keep going...


The best character is Nok Nok. I don't even need him, just taking him along for the laughs.

You couldn't romance Amiri. The other characters were a bit bland in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Abits
I'm replying pathfinder now so it's rather fresh, and I think the biggest problem with the companions there is pacing. You could play for hours without any progress in their stories most of which are completely disconnected from the main plot.


Isn't Chris Avellone part of the writing team on that game? You know one of the writers/founders of Obsidian that got pushed off to the side during Pillars of Eternity. I remember him saying that Pillars of Eternity was taken in a different direction with the writing focusing more on side quests / companions than the main plot.

oh here we go:


Interesting. I just wrote somewhere else in the forum I prefer Obsidian's stories as opposed to their characters


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"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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Obsidian had good characters in Tyranny. Also Alpha Protocol. And Mask of the Betrayer.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Obsidian had good characters in Tyranny. Also Alpha Protocol. And Mask of the Betrayer.


I have not played Alpha Protocol and cannot speak of the quality of its character writing.

But I will second Tyranny and MotB as examples of excellence. I also very much enjoyed a small number of companions from the NWN2 base game (Khelgar, Shandra, Ammon Jerro, Sand).

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Originally Posted by Leuenherz
Interesting, since the first Pillars actually had a pretty strong main plot and shallow companions. I suppose he might claim this was due to his lingering influence?

The description does fit Deadfire, though.
Don't really know, I didn't get that far in PoE and never picked up Deadfire.

Originally Posted by Abits
Interesting. I just wrote somewhere else in the forum I prefer Obsidian's stories as opposed to their characters
Cool and ya some of the characters are kind of eh, I do enjoy there games over all though. Generally keep tabs on what he's working on next to see if I'm interested, did you know he worked on DOS2?

Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Obsidian had good characters in Tyranny. Also Alpha Protocol. And Mask of the Betrayer.
Tyranny was the last obsidian game he worked on before he left, still haven't play it though frown

Last edited by fallenj; 22/11/20 03:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by Arne
Originally Posted by Zefhyr


Amiri is a classical yet interesting barbarian with a story she didn't throw in your face.
Jaethal is a good bad companion, well-written, with spirit and a true strong-mind.
And we could keep going...


The best character is Nok Nok. I don't even need him, just taking him along for the laughs.

You couldn't romance Amiri. The other characters were a bit bland in my opinion.


I agree,
Amiri was touching once you know her and even if she never stopped to be barbarian !

Nok-Nok is so much fun !

I liked Octavia to be honest. She was bright yet dark too. A strong woman with a high spirit.

Linzi was a really good partner too, so optimistic and fun to hear, especially when she talked with the other companions.

And Tristian deliver one hell of a really "good" surprise !

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I think this topic shows that people have different tastes in companions.

The best bet would be to offer variety. So I realy hope that Shadowheart is not another Lohe in the sense that she is controlled by a poweful entity and you need to free her. That would be too similar. I wont mind if she turns to just be manipulative and pretending to be in distress to use you.

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Originally Posted by EMC_V
I think this topic shows that people have different tastes in companions.

The best bet would be to offer variety. So I realy hope that Shadowheart is not another Lohe in the sense that she is controlled by a poweful entity and you need to free her. That would be too similar. I wont mind if she turns to just be manipulative and pretending to be in distress to use you.


in datamining there was something about Shar taking control if rolls are failed but not sure if SH was there as companion or origin

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Originally Posted by Abits


Isn't Chris Avellone part of the writing team on that game? You know one of the writers/founders of Obsidian that got pushed off to the side during Pillars of Eternity. I remember him saying that Pillars of Eternity was taken in a different direction with the writing focusing more on side quests / companions than the main plot.

oh here we go:
Interesting. I just wrote somewhere else in the forum I prefer Obsidian's stories as opposed to their characters


Hadn't seen that video before. It's kinda of amazing how his views are the mirror opposite of mine. PoE1 story was fantastic where the PoE2 story was weaksauce. How anyone could think that PoE2 had a better story is beyond me. (only talking about story combat and design are clearly better) And we won't learn from that video because he doesn't actually give any reasons for his opinion and instead relies upon unsupported statements like "weaknesses in the story" (liiiike? for example?)

I hate when people just assert that there are problems with writing backing it up with anything concrete. It's a negative for clicks strategy that relies upon group dynamics instead of evidence.

Now he is right that the Avellone characters are the best ones in the game. Sagani and bird paladin were forgettable characters.

I didn't know Avellone had left but I think someone like Avellone is someone who would need to be balanced and not put as lead. His stories are amazing but they don't have replay value. More of "that was great! now to free up space on the hard drive . . ."

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Originally Posted by Arne
Originally Posted by Zefhyr


Amiri is a classical yet interesting barbarian with a story she didn't throw in your face.
Jaethal is a good bad companion, well-written, with spirit and a true strong-mind.
And we could keep going...


The best character is Nok Nok. I don't even need him, just taking him along for the laughs.

You couldn't romance Amiri. The other characters were a bit bland in my opinion.


I agree,
Amiri was touching once you know her and even if she never stopped to be barbarian !

Nok-Nok is so much fun !

I liked Octavia to be honest. She was bright yet dark too. A strong woman with a high spirit.

Linzi was a really good partner too, so optimistic and fun to hear, especially when she talked with the other companions.

And Tristian deliver one hell of a really "good" surprise !



Honestly, there is so much work in that game. Its major fault is that it is literally too large(!) They should have split it in two games or several addons.

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Originally Posted by Zefhyr

Linzi was a really good partner too, so optimistic and fun to hear, especially when she talked with the other companions.

Linzi was just disappointing. She started out interesting enough; I liked she'd (initially) refuse to join your party if she thought the main character was evil. Games need more good characters with a backbone. But that little bit of independence was soon gone, because someone decided she needs to be the storyteller and basically turned her into a plot device. She couldn't leave the main character, even if they were the most tyrannical, evil ruler. At the same time the main character couldn't get rid of her either, even when Linzi acted against them (by robbing the royal treasury, at which point an evil ruler would have likely executed her).

And it was unnecessary. Icewind Dale showcases that you can have a narrator who was involved in the story, but who wasn't connected to the main character in a way that feels forced.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
His stories are amazing but they don't have replay value.


I'd take good story over replayability any day. I'm more likely to replay a title because it's just that good than to replay it because it introduced "features intended to make the game more replayable". The most important factor for me is "did I like the game a lot?".

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Agreed, of the two story is the more important. I will almost certainly buy whatever avelone produces next and I think he's probably the best writer in this genre. Ravel and Durance are such great characters.

Which is why I think PoE1 is a classic and PoE2 is "eh, not so bad, kinda fun" despite the later having better mechanics.

But I'm still hoping for that ideal we got with bg2 -- good story and high replay value. I don't know if we'll ever get a game that I want to replay as much as bg2 but I'm hoping bg3 is it.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
His stories are amazing but they don't have replay value.


I'd take good story over replayability any day. I'm more likely to replay a title because it's just that good than to replay it because it introduced "features intended to make the game more replayable". The most important factor for me is "did I like the game a lot?".



This. I'll replay Planescape: Torment 20 more times in my life, but not because it has much traditional "replay value".

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I will replay some games for the story (need a break in between sessions tho) and to get different outcomes. But also I will replay games where combat is fun and challengeable. Won't lock myself in the category 'story or gtfo'.

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The story in most RPGs don't tick my good story boxes, so I settle for games with engaging combat. There are a few (Tyranny is a good example) that I have enjoyed the premise of the story in, but most of them fall very far short.

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I like RPG's with a well established lore. I mean PoE was okay but it wasn't a world you could walk about and identify things you already knew about. If they made a BG type RPG based on LOTR (not another generic shitty mmo) people who knew the lore would find all sorts of interesting things. The world building is the most important part of an RPG imo other than NPC's with limited dialouge options.

I like to read of legends, old wars, historical events, gods etc. then place a "me" character in this world to explore and fill in the gaps. Lets investigate these areas 100 year after a legendary battle, or cursed undead city...... to establish yourself in the lore rather than play out some pre-determined path dictated by someone who clearly doesn't understand motivation. Good and Evil are totally subjective from the worldview of the individual, there are no such thing. There is only actions and consequence.

The Witcher had well established lore, legends etc. the world was already built for the game directors. Turned out even with a questionable combat system the game changed the RPG standard. D&D and the FR has lore, legends and history that should enable a story to write itself BUT people like to reinvent the wheel. They like to add their 2 cents that usually ends poorly. As BG3 is early access and missing 2 and half acts we will have to wait and see.

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