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I went into the game totally blind and made it all the way to the end. I made an alt game for multiplayer and noticed the origins similar to DOS:2 where you can play as the characters and saw Wyll there. I looked him up and found out I completely missed him despite him living through the goblin attack. I thought he was just this flashy NPC who blows the horn and jumps down as an awesome setpiece moment and nothing else. And then I found out it's possible (and even probable) that he dies right there! Every other NPC gets a very-easy-to-trigger cutscene that's automatically in your way as you explore, and then Wyll not only lacks that, but is the only character that can die before you talk to him through no fault of your own. It's so inconsistent and I feel it could stand to be fixed. It would be really simple too. Just do a similar cutscene to the others after the goblin raid where he approaches the party and thanks them for the help.

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To be fair, you can't miss seeing Wyll, at least; you more or less have to approach the grove, and he makes a big entrance. It's pretty unusual for him to die there - I've played that goblin attack many, many times now, and only had him die once, when I was actively trying to get everyone killed. A scene where he calls out to you in some fashion and invites you to follow up with him wouldn't be a bad thing though.... or causing him to grab you into a cut-scene the first time you walk by the training tiefling kids at any point.

By contrast, it's very easy to miss Gale, since the stretch of road he appears on is entirely non-essential, and I've seen other players just never walk down that particular path, because they naturally see both ends of it, by other means and so never see a need to walk that particular way.

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Originally Posted by Niara
To be fair, you can't miss seeing Wyll, at least; you more or less have to approach the grove, and he makes a big entrance. It's pretty unusual for him to die there - I've played that goblin attack many, many times now, and only had him die once, when I was actively trying to get everyone killed. A scene where he calls out to you in some fashion and invites you to follow up with him wouldn't be a bad thing though.... or causing him to grab you into a cut-scene the first time you walk by the training tiefling kids at any point.

By contrast, it's very easy to miss Gale, since the stretch of road he appears on is entirely non-essential, and I've seen other players just never walk down that particular path, because they naturally see both ends of it, by other means and so never see a need to walk that particular way.





People who don't walk down every possible path are heathens and don't deserve to have nice things.

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As it's also quite possible for hit to dies in the first encounter I really think certain NPC's need an essential/unkillable tag. Also, he needs a more cinematic introduction, Gale's so far is probably the best, although I don't like him that much as a character or where he appears, but -how- he is introduced is suitable.

Even Lae'Zel's introduction is a bit wierd, you can see her creeping on the ledge just waiting there for you. x) Shadowheart works because she's actually doing something. Astarion is just standing on the path in the open like a dumbass, I'd like if there was a small cut scene first where he jumps out at your from the bushes or something.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
People who don't walk down every possible path are heathens and don't deserve to have nice things.

Well, they will likely regret not trying everything before full release, but the plot will likely be a bit more clear at that point as well smile
Just a bit.


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I couldn't recruit him during my first playthrough because it was impossible to talk to him so I assumed it's a bug and finished the game without him. I came back for him later and he was still un-recruitable.

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Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by Niara
To be fair, you can't miss seeing Wyll, at least; you more or less have to approach the grove, and he makes a big entrance. It's pretty unusual for him to die there - I've played that goblin attack many, many times now, and only had him die once, when I was actively trying to get everyone killed. A scene where he calls out to you in some fashion and invites you to follow up with him wouldn't be a bad thing though.... or causing him to grab you into a cut-scene the first time you walk by the training tiefling kids at any point.

By contrast, it's very easy to miss Gale, since the stretch of road he appears on is entirely non-essential, and I've seen other players just never walk down that particular path, because they naturally see both ends of it, by other means and so never see a need to walk that particular way.





People who don't walk down every possible path are heathens and don't deserve to have nice things.


As are people who don't talk to every single NPCs they can find!


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Actually it would be fun if one missed Gale to later here of a hugh explosion in that area...

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Originally Posted by Deekester
I went into the game totally blind and made it all the way to the end. I made an alt game for multiplayer and noticed the origins similar to DOS:2 where you can play as the characters and saw Wyll there. I looked him up and found out I completely missed him despite him living through the goblin attack. I thought he was just this flashy NPC who blows the horn and jumps down as an awesome setpiece moment and nothing else. And then I found out it's possible (and even probable) that he dies right there! Every other NPC gets a very-easy-to-trigger cutscene that's automatically in your way as you explore, and then Wyll not only lacks that, but is the only character that can die before you talk to him through no fault of your own. It's so inconsistent and I feel it could stand to be fixed. It would be really simple too. Just do a similar cutscene to the others after the goblin raid where he approaches the party and thanks them for the help.


I agree and disagree with this, so I personally know when I did the grove front gate encounter. Didn't pay to much attention to Wyll when he made his grand entrance because EVERYTHING was new and chaotic at that moment. If they really want to make you focus on Wyll, should do a extreme close up when he makes his grand entrance. During my multi play the two people I played with that was there first play through. They walked passed Wyll completely and stuck to the main mission. Generally in multiple people groups I wonder how much npc interactions people will get compared to single player and the possibility to completely miss content because they are only doing multi.

Crpgs or rpgs in general, you need to talk to npcs so you do not miss anything. So for example in Dragon Age Origins, it was completely possible to miss your dog cause it was tied to a quest related to the kennel master off to the side. Sten also because he was in a cage where you have to go and actually interact with him.

Over all, personally I'd say it's your own fault for not playing the game and rushing.

Last edited by fallenj; 23/11/20 01:37 PM.
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When I played it the first time Wyll died in the goblin fight and if I had not already known that he is a companion I would have missed this.
My party stayed on the hill and was shooting arrows.
Wyll jumped down and attacked the goblins with his sword, he was killed by a worg and 2 goblins in melee.

my thoughts:
What an idiot. A warlock starts fighting on a cliff.
What does he do: Jump down and use his sword.
What would I do: Stay up there, shoot arrows, eldritch blast or other spells at the enemy, shove them down if they try to climb up.

But that is totally fine.
Its Ok that you miss stuff if you let people die in a fight or you do not go to every area and talk to everyone.


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Originally Posted by Niara
By contrast, it's very easy to miss Gale, since the stretch of road he appears on is entirely non-essential, and I've seen other players just never walk down that particular path, because they naturally see both ends of it, by other means and so never see a need to walk that particular way.


Same for Astarian...I missed him my first 2 run throughs.

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Wyll certainly is proving to be "squishy" and other than the few times where he died in the battle at the gates of the Druid Grove, after he dropped far too quickly in combat on the couple of occasions where he survived long enough for me to actually recruit him; I've seriously come to the point where I consider him both irritating and extraneous. If I do manage to recruit him, I tend to just leave him at camp.

Last edited by Capt.Wells; 23/11/20 03:25 PM.

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I think most of the companions are pretty hard to miss. Even Wyll is kind of a big deal, the game makes it very clear this guy is important. I'm on the fence on this argument. On the one hand, I think this is a good way to incentivize you to explore and talk to people, on the other it might feel a little unfair.


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Originally Posted by Deekester
I went into the game totally blind and made it all the way to the end.


Congratz!
But who doesn't? ^_^

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
Originally Posted by Deekester
I went into the game totally blind and made it all the way to the end.


Congratz!
But who doesn't? ^_^


Honestly? I think a lot of people know a lot about the game before starting. They know about Astarion for example. They know about the other companions.

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I think Gale and Astarion are the two easy ones to miss, Karlach (not recruitable at present) is also out of the way, though not too out of the way. Gale is out of the way and Astarion is really out of the way. Wyll is less easy to miss and more easy to let die, I watched a bugbear crush his head in once, if you just watch the battle play out in stealth. Considering Shadowheart has an interesting story route if not recruited I would imagine she's a better one to miss/not recruit.

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Originally Posted by Veilburner

Honestly? I think a lot of people know a lot about the game before starting. They know about Astarion for example. They know about the other companions.


I too did. But that does not mean I did not went in totally "blind".
All of this has nothing to do with game mechanics after all.

Dunno if DOS2 counts as a similar system but after completing 3 playthroughs I can say, knowing the mechanics can boost one's combat effectiveness over around 200%.

But some things are still super OP I think.
Minotaurs for example. Ressurected the one with the club too with Gurt's help.
Observing his weapon slot and abilitys was insightful.


I wish the AI would be generally act better.
First time I cheesed them simply by constant retreating and range weaponry.
But ultimately the game is not hard.
It is just punishing for playing without caution.

Thats what I meant.

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It seems to me the game is designed to be experienced more than once, and that it is purposefully made so that different styles of play- patient players who go slow, people in a big hurry who just want the highlights, that sort of thing, have entirely different experiences.

In the same way that taking less direct paths results in whole different experiences, I suspect that Larian is well aware that some companions can be "missed" on the first playthough, and that this is a feature, rather than a detriment.

In any game that really features "choice" and "different paths", this is a desirable result. It's a credit to the designers that there are so many possible things to experience, in so very many ways. I know I've found totally unexplored areas, events, and characters on each of my 5 playthroughs. Each time I really thought I had covered most everything, but there are lots of areas that are quite out of the way and unexpected.

To me, this is all a plus.

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I don't see a problem here, you can miss a companion in other RPGs as well. Exploration should be rewarding.

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The thought of just not exploring the area to such an extent that you would actually miss these companions makes me feel bad things in my actual body.

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