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I don't understand why sometimes a chance to hit is 36%, is there any way to get a breakdown of what the calculation of chance to hit is?

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Hit chance for melee weapons is based on strengh.
Hit chance for ranged weapons and melee weapons with the finesse attribute is dexterity.
Hit chance for spells is based is based on the casting stat ( int for wizards, cha for warlocks, wis for rangers and clerics)
The spells of the fighter and rogue subclasses with spells are also based on int.

Physical attacks and some spells target armor class (AC).
Many spells target a saving throw of an ability. (str, dex, con, int, wis, cha ).
You can right click and check characters and enemies to see their AC and stats.

examples: (I assume low lv chars with a profiency bonus of 2)
Your ranger with 18dex attacks and enemy with AC15 by shooting a longbow+1
4 (dex bonus) + 2 ( profiency ) + 1 (weapon enchantment ) + 1d20 needs to be 15 or higher to hit.
Your bonusses are 7, so you need to roll a 8 or higher to hit the enemy.
If you roll a 1 you always miss, if you roll a 20 you always hit and the damage that is rolled is doubled (only rolled damage doubled, not static bonusses)

Your wizard with 18 int casts grease on a rogue with 14 dex.
Enemy saving throw = 8 + 2 (dex bonus) + 2 (profiency bonus ) = 12
Your spell difficulty class = 4 (int bonus) + 2 (profiency bonus) = 6
6 + 1d20 needs to be at least 12
You need to roll 6 or higher to make the enemy slip.

Very importent are advantage and disadvantage.
Advantage means you roll 2 dice and take the result that is better for you.
Disadvantage means you roll 2 dice and take the worse result.
If you have at least one advantage and one disadvantage at once, it is rolled normally no matter how many advantages or disadvantages there are in total.


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Small mistake there, Mad...

With saving throws, you don't roll anything - your target rolls to save against you.

So in your grease example, the 18 int wizard has a saving throw DC of: 8 (static value) + 4 (Int modifier) + 2 (proficiency bonus) = 14
This means that the *Rogue* needs to make a saving throw that meets or beats 14.
The Rogue is proficient in Dex saves, and has a Dex of 14 as well.
This means the rogue's saving throw will be: 1d20 (their roll) + 2 (dex modified) + 2 (proficiency bonus). This means the rogue needs to roll 10 or more to beat you, and in this case, not slip over.
In percentages, this means the Rogue has a 55% chance to succeed on a straight roll, or that you have a 45% chance of landing the effect.

Against an enemy with much lower dex and no proficiency in the save, such as an ogre, the creature would need to roll a lot higher to save against your spell, which would display as a much higher chance for you to 'stick' the spell.

The game doesn't do a very good job of explaining any of this at the moment - Someone who is not familiar with 5e, or D&D, doesn't really have a solid way of understanding most of this, especially with how lacking the event log currently is.

Last edited by Niara; 23/11/20 11:03 PM.
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Shouldn’t there be combat log in the bottom right (expandable)? If it’s any good, it should contain calculations and such.

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The event log is *Woeful* at the moment.

It's terrible, and doesn't explain even half the things it needs to, doesn't show half the things it should, and is generally very, very lacking.

It also seems to trip over its own math in some places - like for skill checks, it shows its math as giving your roll a penalty equal to the bonus of the skill you're checking, and then adding back on the elements of the ability check piece by piece afterwards, and then adding the full bonus again.... technically comes to the correct number, but is like it's deliberately convoluted.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Small mistake there, Mad...

With saving throws, you don't roll anything - your target rolls to save against you.

So in your grease example, the 18 int wizard has a saving throw DC of: 8 (static value) + 4 (Int modifier) + 2 (proficiency bonus) = 14
This means that the *Rogue* needs to make a saving throw that meets or beats 14.
The Rogue is proficient in Dex saves, and has a Dex of 14 as well.
This means the rogue's saving throw will be: 1d20 (their roll) + 2 (dex modified) + 2 (proficiency bonus). This means the rogue needs to roll 10 or more to beat you, and in this case, not slip over.
In percentages, this means the Rogue has a 55% chance to succeed on a straight roll, or that you have a 45% chance of landing the effect.

Against an enemy with much lower dex and no proficiency in the save, such as an ogre, the creature would need to roll a lot higher to save against your spell, which would display as a much higher chance for you to 'stick' the spell.

The game doesn't do a very good job of explaining any of this at the moment - Someone who is not familiar with 5e, or D&D, doesn't really have a solid way of understanding most of this, especially with how lacking the event log currently is.


Thank you

I read the PHB, but it looks like I misunderstood something.
So if you target the enemy AC you roll but if you target an enemy ability the target rolls?

PS:
Who had the idiot idea to call things that used to be attributes now abilities?
The sentence "I target an enemy ability." sounds nuts to me. It feels like I prevent the enemy from doing something, like casting a spell or attacking.


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Well, it's more, you force the enemy to make a saving throw - you're doing something, and the enemy is attempting to save themselves from the effect. It's just like when a dragon breathes fire at you - they aren't targeting your ability scores, they're just blowing fire... it's up to you to try to save yourself from the effects of that, and you use your natural abilities to do so (your dexterity, or your constitution, etc.). When you cast grease, you aren't attacking a specific enemy, you're just making grease; the enemy that's in the area has to *save themselves* from falling over as a result.

Think of it this way:

Attacks and Ability Checks are proactive: they are you initiating something. Saving Throws are reactive: they are you responding to something.

With an attack or an ability check, you can miss or fail, and the targeted creature or intended activity may simply not occur.
With a Saving Throw, you are just doing something; it can't miss or fail, it just happens... the roll comes in because you are forcing the *enemy* to react to what you're doing.


Ability Scores is the 5e terminology for your six core stats - that feeds into ability checks, which are checks that utilise a specific ability score. Once again, the general rule of thumb works here: Ability Checks are proactive, while Saving Throws are reactive. Trying to recall a specific piece of lore so you can tell the party might call for an Intelligence Check - or, if a specific skill applies to what you're trying to recall (such as it being about a particular god), you might make an Intelligence (religion) check instead, and add your proficiency bonus if you are proficient with religion.

On the other hand, if you are about to go blundering into an area that will almost certainly incinerate you, just like a colleague warned you about previously, but you seem to have forgotten, your DM might offer you an Intelligence Saving Throw, to catch yourself and remember just before you have a bad time - recalling the danger was not something you actively chose to do or thought about, it was your memory reacting to the hitherto forgotten dangerous situation.


Last edited by Niara; 24/11/20 12:17 AM.
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It's worth noting that each attribute score generally correlates to specific kinds of spell saves.

STR saving throws are forced by spells that require physical strength to resist. For instance, Entangle forces a STR saving throw to determine if those in it's area can prevent the vines created from restraining them by pushing them off of them.

DEX saving throws are forced by spells that require reaction speed to evade. For instance, Fireball forces a DEX saving throw to determine if those in it's area can evade the flames well enough to only take half of the damage from the heat.

CON saving throws are forced by spells that require the ability to endure against its affects. For instance, Cloudkill forces a CON saving throw to determine if those subjected to its poisonous fumes can withstand the effects of the poison well enough to only take half damage.

INT saving throws are generally forced by Illusions such as Phantasmal force. It represents the minds ability to discern reality from the illusion.

WIS saving throws are generally caused by charm spells. Spells such as Geas force a target to make a WIS save to see if the target can resist having the will of the enchanter imposed upon them.

CHA saving throws are few and far between. I don't understand them well enough to give a good explanation as to why you make them.

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They should probably find a way to show the dice.
Solasta did it and I guess it's really less confusing for newcomers (in combats but you also have a better ubderstanding of how things work when you create your character).

Not sure visible dice would suit BG3 but it's really good to understand and avoid (a little bit) miss frustration.
Larian's gamedesigner should probably work on a better balance between easy and fast informations and better understanding of the game's mechanics.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 24/11/20 07:21 AM.
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Two more question.

I understand the basics of attacks and spells.
But I am not sure about skills.

If you make a check against a fixed DC it is clear, like you detect a trap or you try to intimidate the person you talk to.
You roll your skill value + profiency bonus (if profient) + 1d20 vs the DC.
In BG3 the profiency bonus is already included in the skill value in character screen.

But I do not understand two things:
- Shoving an enemy: Is it your athletics skill vs the athletics skill of the enemy? I am not sure who rolls against what.
- Hiding from an enemy: Your stealth skill vs enemy perception. Do both roll their skill and the one with the higher result wins?


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So, what you're talking about there, Mad, are what are called "contested checks" - this is where two entities are in direct opposition to each other in some way. In those cases, yes, both entities make a skill check with whatever skill is appropriate (they don't need to be the same skill, and usually aren't). The winner, being the one with the higher final number, achieves what they wee attempting, over the other. Important to note: in the case of a direct tie, the status quo is maintained; this means the circumstance doesn't change. So, if you were making an opposed check with someone to hold a door close against them trying to pull it open, a tie would result in the door staying as it is - closed in this case.

Shoving and hiding are the two most common opposed checks outside of conversation.

When you try to shove someone, you are using athletics, but the person you are trying to shove has their *choice* of whether to use their athletics OR their acrobatics to either resit you directly, or avoid the force of your shove.

When you hide, you generally roll a stealth check. In most cases, this should be compared to the *passive* perception of anything that realistically has a chance of perceiving you nearby. If something is actively searching for you, such as by using the search action, then they can make an active perception check against your stealth.

A passive check is your fixed average value for an ability check - it's 10 plus your skill bonus. So, if you are proficient in perception at level 1, and have a +3 from 16 wisdom, your perception bonus is +5; your passive perception, then, is 15.

I should note, that Larian does not seem to understand what passive checks are, and refers to some things as passive checks when it is actually making a roll... if it's making a roll, it's not a passive check.

Other common contested checks happen in conversation - any time your DM invites you to roll insight on a character, you are making a contested check; it will either be against the NPC's persuasion, or deception, in most cases; you won't know which the NPC used (whether they are trying to convince you of genuine earnestness, or trying to deceive you), and the DM generally won't tell you, because that's the point.


To add to Evandir's examples above, a Charisma save is a save that tests your force of presence and sense of self; it's common for resisting attempts to displace or banish, and also for things overtly trying to dominate or force their will or their persona over your own ability to act or speak..

Unfortunately, it shares a certain amount of territory with Wisdom saves, and many things in 5e are Wisdom saves that really *should* be Charisma or Intelligence saves instead... this is a legacy from older editions, where we only had three types of saves (Will, Reflex and Fortitude); 'Will' saves, in those systems covered *everything* related to mental or personal, or just plain non-physical saves... Now that we have three types of mental saves, Intelligence and Charisma should be taking more of that weight, but they didn't get enough to the load shared across to them from Wisdom.

Subtle mental effects - charms and such, should be Wisdom saves.
Overt or forceful mental effects, such as domination, possession and control should be Charisma saves.
Effects that confuse, scatter or disorient the mind or scramble your mental faculties, or that affect memory, should be Intelligence saves.

Out side of that rough rule of thumb, how an effect takes place should also be a consideration; a fear effect might fit as either a wisdom or a charisma save, based on how it is delivered - if the goal is to alter a creature's perception to terrify them without them realising they're being messed with, that should be a Wisdom save. If the effect violently assaults their psyche in an effort to terrify and cow them, that should be a Charisma save.

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Shouldn't this topic be part of "Help Tips & Tricks" ?

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Thanks

I mostly think about how it is done in this game, PnP is something different.
Not sure about shove and sneak (as written above), but I understand what Larian means by active and passive.

active: You select to make a dice roll.
You select a dialogue option with a skill check, you use an attack or spell against an enemy or you try to sneak past enemies. You press a button in order to do something.

passive: A dice is rolled but you did not chose to roll, it just happens.
You walk around and you detect a trap, a hidden door or something else is strange.
You talk to someone and you remember you met him before or you realize what spell he is casting.

In PnP you can ask the DM about stuff and he can let you make a skill check if it fits.
In the computer game you don´t want to press a search butten every 5 steps just in case there is something hidden nearby.
In the IE games rogues had their search mode on all the time, at least when I was playing. Now that every char has every skill it makes sense to make such skills passive.


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Perhaps (To Drath Malorn)...

Though it could be classified as a commentary on how utterly terrible the game's current event log, tooltips, explanations and general accessibility of information is to players.

Players who aren't already familiar with 5e will have no idea half time of why various things are happening, or what various effects mean or do.
The event log does not explain even half the things it should, or give half the details it needs to.
The tooltips are largely unhelpful in an overwhelming majority of cases, as they reference other status conditions which the game then does not explain at all.
The status effects and the tooltips, both, are often abjectly wrong, contradictory, or even reference actions that the player cannot take, and which aren't even in the game.
Many tooltips and descriptions seem to have been copied out of the PHB, ignorant of the fact that the thing they are attached to in the game doesn't work that way at all in game.

It's a shambles, and having other players needing to explain various basic mechanics like this may well be viewed as a form of directed feedback in itself...

To Madscientist,

The issue you described - not wanting to press search every few steps... that is what passive checks in PnP 5e are for. The point is, it's incredibly misleading and off-putting that Larian have decided to call what they are doing 'passive checks', that terminology *Means Something* in 5e, and what they are doing is NOT it. Anyone who is familiar with the rule system will find this a source of dissonance and likely an annoyance. Your passive is a static value - it involves no dice. Finding something with what Larian are calling your passive check, and then failing to find it on a reload later is annoying, and it's not fun for anyone. If they want to do it that way regardless - one time, one chance rolling for spotting things in the environment - then they need to call it something that isn't the *exact term* in 5e that means something different.

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You can se the calculations for active rolls and damage in the log. ( Though sometimes you need good knowledge of the rules to understand this. )

I wish they would also show the rolls for passive checks.
When you find something the log just says: " perception roll : success" for example.
Often you have no idea what you found if the camera is in a bad position.

more wishes:
- The option to automatically stop movement when you detect a trap
- If you press alt, hidden stuff you found is highlighted with a different color, like red for traps.


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Originally Posted by Madscientist
You can se the calculations for active rolls and damage in the log. ( Though sometimes you need good knowledge of the rules to understand this. )

I wish they would also show the rolls for passive checks.
When you find something the log just says: " perception roll : success" for example.
Often you have no idea what you found if the camera is in a bad position.

more wishes:
- The option to automatically stop movement when you detect a trap
- If you press alt, hidden stuff you found is highlighted with a different color, like red for traps.


Well when it comes to the ALT key pressing it doesn't always reveal hidden stuff. More often than not it reveals nothing at all even though I might have passed a passive check or their is chest, barrels or what have you that can be looted. I've got to do a very thorough search with the mouse key to find things.

The Camera itself needs to be fixed as if you should go scan to far using one of the keys the camera gets stuck and you have to reload your game. and that takes forever.


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