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I appreciate that they added better dialog between characters and the followers arent as snarky anymore.

But this came at a cost you can VERY EASILY see which dialog is from the "last patch" and this "new patch"

Because the dialog wasnt all recorded at the same time you can tell that the actors just forgot how they were acting during the first set of takes. Its so jarring. Maybe on the first take they were feeling a certain way but now on second take it totally feels like a new recording session.

Not sure what the fix here is but at the moment it all feels like a patch work of different recording sessions put together and it feels all over the place.

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It could be they did the voice work remotely and it is just a placeholder to feel out fan reception before committing to final studio production. We are in the age of Covid after all, and I don't know about your state, but California is back to operating under Martial Law light again with curfew restriction and prohibitions against unnecessary travel and large gatherings

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Was kind of worried about it. I feel like they should just stick to their vision, improve it and possibly release some less antagonistic companions, instead of awkardly patching up the existing ones by making them 'nicer'. Edwin, Korgan and Baeloth aren't awesome because they're 'nice'.

Having said that, if they changed the banters to be a little less horny teenagers (with worms eating their brains) that'd be nice.

Last edited by Innateagle; 03/12/20 07:54 PM.
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Hmm, I'm actually saddened by this.

I think that no matter how sarcastic the characters are, it's their personality, their authors saw them that way. I don't see the point in changing their behavior just because it offends someone.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Hmm, I'm actually saddened by this.

I think that no matter how sarcastic the characters are, it's their personality, their authors saw them that way. I don't see the point in changing their behavior just because it offends someone.

+1 i liked them too frown

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Hmm, I'm actually saddened by this.

I think that no matter how sarcastic the characters are, it's their personality, their authors saw them that way. I don't see the point in changing their behavior just because it offends someone.

+1 i liked them too frown


Nicer Snarkyheart and Baezel, world ends... I disapprove it too.

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Ideally they'll reach a point where they've finalised the dialogue completely, and make an internal declaration that it will not change any more - after which they can smooth it into a single coherent character.

Making changes with a dedication to full VA is a *lot* of work they're making for themselves; I don't mind if it's scruffy and not polished from the outset, so long as it IS polished up once the dialogue is set in stone.

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Originally Posted by Niara

Making changes with a dedication to full VA is a *lot* of work they're making for themselves; I don't mind if it's scruffy and not polished from the outset, so long as it IS polished up once the dialogue is set in stone.

Thats what made me a bit O_O, since, afaik, recording new VA lines (even if semi-placeholder audio) is a pretty big thing to do

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If their intention is to make the companions more likeable through changing dialogue, then they should do so by having the characters develop and dialogue change based on action and inaction. By this I mean they could simply keep both sets of dialogue, but the companions react differently based on how quests are completed or approval.

They could be miserable sods like before or more tolerable depending on character development. I mean, IRL you're not going to behave like Lae'zel or some of the others did unless you've got a developmental syndrome like Asperger's or something. You'd actually pick up on social cues and behave appropriately whether or not you entirely agree with situation whether it be out of companionship or simply necessity to survive.

If they could add some companions that aren't banging goddesses, vampires, werewolves, princes, inhabited by demons, immortals from an extinct race etc., etc., and are actually relatable or more normal then that'd be great to. I'm sure when the ship was flying and zapping people off of the street they got some normal people too. *shrugs*

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I didn't notice any difference they still seem snarky and antagonistic to me? Where did they change them?

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Originally Posted by Blade238
If their intention is to make the companions more likeable through changing dialogue, then they should do so by having the characters develop and dialogue change based on action and inaction. By this I mean they could simply keep both sets of dialogue, but the companions react differently based on how quests are completed or approval.

They could be miserable sods like before or more tolerable depending on character development. I mean, IRL you're not going to behave like Lae'zel or some of the others did unless you've got a developmental syndrome like Asperger's or something. You'd actually pick up on social cues and behave appropriately whether or not you entirely agree with situation whether it be out of companionship or simply necessity to survive.

If they could add some companions that aren't banging goddesses, vampires, werewolves, princes, inhabited by demons, immortals from an extinct race etc., etc., and are actually relatable or more normal then that'd be great to. I'm sure when the ship was flying and zapping people off of the street they got some normal people too. *shrugs*


+1

A lot of the problems are baked in, but some reactivity would help.

Originally Posted by Sestuna
snip.


Hopefully it's a placeholder. It would be nice/ effortless/ helpful if Larian mentioned that, but they are about as reactive as their characters when it comes to feedback. "I'm not going to tell you because I'm mysterious and I have a dark secret and I also have layers... No I can't tell you why we only respond once a month. By the way, did you know X% of players never made it to the goblin village because they got bored?"

God, now it's been mentioned, the asperger's diagnosis is difficult to let go of.

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Originally Posted by Sestuna
I appreciate that they added better dialog between characters and the followers arent as snarky anymore.

But this came at a cost you can VERY EASILY see which dialog is from the "last patch" and this "new patch"

Because the dialog wasnt all recorded at the same time you can tell that the actors just forgot how they were acting during the first set of takes. Its so jarring. Maybe on the first take they were feeling a certain way but now on second take it totally feels like a new recording session.

Not sure what the fix here is but at the moment it all feels like a patch work of different recording sessions put together and it feels all over the place.


This is why if I was running the project, I would not have done any of the voice work until I had all the dialog locked down to like 99% completed. Every time they make dialog changes, they increase the price because they need more voice work and as you mentioned that it not 100% the same.

EA could have been fine with just text dialogs. Voice Acting just adds more depth, was not needed at the start.

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Originally Posted by DanteYoda
I didn't notice any difference they still seem snarky and antagonistic to me? Where did they change them?


Shadowheart has gotten considerably nicer with 'neutral' approval ratings than she was in the previous patch with exceptional approval. She has more things to say and gave the "and not an unpleasant one . . . " talk shortly after meeting her. Which was big change from her previous, guarded personality. Also fewer scowls. Like the OP, I don't think the changes were good and I agree with those asking for longer dialogues. I'd prefer a written wall of text to a brief vo. Again, this is something PoE1 got right.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by DanteYoda
I didn't notice any difference they still seem snarky and antagonistic to me? Where did they change them?


Shadowheart has gotten considerably nicer with 'neutral' approval ratings than she was in the previous patch with exceptional approval. She has more things to say and gave the "and not an unpleasant one . . . " talk shortly after meeting her. Which was big change from her previous, guarded personality. Also fewer scowls. Like the OP, I don't think the changes were good and I agree with those asking for longer dialogues. I'd prefer a written wall of text to a brief vo. Again, this is something PoE1 got right.



Yes, but I'm not sure it will work with cutscenes...


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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by DanteYoda
I didn't notice any difference they still seem snarky and antagonistic to me? Where did they change them?


Shadowheart has gotten considerably nicer with 'neutral' approval ratings than she was in the previous patch with exceptional approval. She has more things to say and gave the "and not an unpleasant one . . . " talk shortly after meeting her. Which was big change from her previous, guarded personality. Also fewer scowls. Like the OP, I don't think the changes were good and I agree with those asking for longer dialogues. I'd prefer a written wall of text to a brief vo. Again, this is something PoE1 got right.


Welp, i felt like SH was the only one they'd done truly right, what with how her talks progressed and how many they were. Just needed to make her a bit less snappish, on high approval, when asked for her opinion of you and about her magic thing.

Actually, it's actually pretty weird they chose to straight up make them all nicer rather than just working on making the approval system better and more relevant.

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This is the product of listening to consumers who are convinced that they know best and giving into silly demands to placate them.

There were way too many young entitled guys who were salty that their only female romance options were pragmatic, dutiful, and not "traditionally attractive" Lae'zel and standoffish snarky Shadowheart.
They attacked the forums in droves because it messed with their fantasy that all women should act vulnerable and do everything within their power to be as appealing to men as possible.
What we have now are watered down and confused followers who constantly feel like they're holding something back and pitying you because they're doing their best to be kind.
It comes off as condescending and inconsistent. Shadowheart in particular went from being stoic to acting like middle school girls in the 90's who modeled themselves after the witches in "The Craft."

But hey, at least a pile of young adult males who have 4 Charisma in real life can now romance the more-tolerant woman of their dreams!


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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
This is the product of listening to consumers who are convinced that they know best and giving into silly demands to placate them.

There were way too many young entitled guys who were salty that their only female romance options were pragmatic, dutiful, and not "traditionally attractive" Lae'zel and standoffish snarky Shadowheart.
They attacked the forums in droves because it messed with their fantasy that all women should act vulnerable and do everything within their power to be as appealing to men as possible.
What we have now are watered down and confused followers who constantly feel like they're holding something back and pitying you because they're doing their best to be kind.
It comes off as condescending and inconsistent. Shadowheart in particular went from being stoic to acting like middle school girls in the 90's who modeled themselves after the witches in "The Craft."

But hey, at least a pile of young adult males who have 4 Charisma in real life can now romance the more-tolerant woman of their dreams!


Well that escalated quickly grin

It's still EA so i'm not judging too hard, but if they take this road is more on Larian than anyone else tbh. People can criticize whatever they want, at the end of the day if their plan was to release the 'evil' companions first to encourage us to take the (very bad) evil path they should have just buckled up and stuck to it, especially when it came to narratives that very much missed some pieces.

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I killed Lae'zel right again at the start to get her armor
( and because she feels too out of place in my camp )
during the Tiefling standoff so I wouldnt know.
And until now I am not at the parts where Shadowheart truly started to annoy me.


But hey now I hear both of those empowered Wamen had a slight personality overhaul?
Sounds great.
Cause they were not "cool".
They were just sassy or bossy just for the sake of "personality", of being "different".


To be fair I dunno about Lae'zel.
Maybe Githyanki culture is just one giant piece of shame, who knows? And she can be excused that way.
But Shadowheart?
This wannabe detached and wannabe "deep logic moments" of her's, can be pretty annoying.

Her class feels off for this kind of personality.
She seems more like a Rogue than a Cleric.
Even a Cleric of Shar.
I know Shar Cleris are all about Taqiya and stuff... but she isnt even smart about it.
The sass and soft-hostility appear just childish and mentally unstable.


And in a typical D&D story that is the type of character that kills you later just because... "edgy and evil". wink
Sometimes it frustrats me that we cannot see her entire chain in EarlyAccess.
If Shadowheart does not later on accepts that her behaviour has been totally immature and cringe, I hope the tadpol just clears out her already pretty hollow skull.

Yeah you can only be a convinced follower of someone tyrannical like Shar if you have minddamage like Amnesia.
But then again the Shadowdruids too seem to be pretty humanoidphobic too.
I bet when they were all children someone at their pudding once!! LoL
" And this is not their reeeeevääääänge! "

^_^

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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
This is the product of listening to consumers who are convinced that they know best and giving into silly demands to placate them.

There were way too many young entitled guys who were salty that their only female romance options were pragmatic, dutiful, and not "traditionally attractive" Lae'zel and standoffish snarky Shadowheart.
They attacked the forums in droves because it messed with their fantasy that all women should act vulnerable and do everything within their power to be as appealing to men as possible.
What we have now are watered down and confused followers who constantly feel like they're holding something back and pitying you because they're doing their best to be kind.
It comes off as condescending and inconsistent. Shadowheart in particular went from being stoic to acting like middle school girls in the 90's who modeled themselves after the witches in "The Craft."

But hey, at least a pile of young adult males who have 4 Charisma in real life can now romance the more-tolerant woman of their dreams!

gamers ruined games for everyone

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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
not "traditionally attractive" Lae'zel


She's green so I Captain Kirk'ed her.

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