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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey

That is, you do not take into account the cultural and external characteristics of races?
Or do you just think that in order to make a fantasy race different from humans, you need to make it as strange and alien as possible?
Perhaps I misunderstood your idea, but it seems to me that with such a logic, all fantasy races, from trolls to yugoloths, can be called "people".

I'd expect an alien to differ in not just looks, but also their lifestyle, culture, behavior, means of communication, how they perceive the world, how they interact, etc. All this all should be shaped by their biological characteristics. Even if they are just imaginary.

And in fact it is.
But most gamers (well, tabletop game players) and video game creators ignore this, making elves just extraordinarily handsome people.
It's funny, but even in the 5th D&D rulebooks, there are significant sections dedicated to various races (even monster races that the player is unlikely to be able to play), but, again, many people ignore this.


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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool

There's a degree of alienness to their faces which elves in BG3 do not have, because they are just humans with pointy ears.

It is a pity that the GW is also starting to lose ground.
With the release of new editions, Aeldari and Elves (Aelves, if you like Age of Sigmar) are becoming more human-like.


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Originally Posted by Eldath

.....
It's not about actually caring about other people, you merely care about being right and your very narrow views to be pushed upon everyone as if they were universal.
If someone disagrees with you you will just refuse to engage and call whatever they said irrelevant to the discussion and expect them to accept this.
Well tough luck, I'm not accepting it.

When I said to drop the argument, I meant it.

Take 3 days away to consider your future behaviour. Extended to permanent ban for attempting to bypass suspension using Alts.



Last edited by Sadurian; 05/12/20 11:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool

There's a degree of alienness to their faces which elves in BG3 do not have, because they are just humans with pointy ears.

It is a pity that the GW is also starting to lose ground.
With the release of new editions, Aeldari and Elves (Aelves, if you like Age of Sigmar) are becoming more human-like.

Thats a shame, I haven't seen the newer tranch of codexes and so on, but the thing I always liked about them was how alien they are, depite superficially looking "human-ish" The elongated faces and the very attrctive yet cruel look. And the fact that they could theoretically be mistaken for humans, but their manner, attitudes, culture, behavior were as far removed from humans as ork culture was, just in different ways.

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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey

And in fact it is.
But most gamers (well, tabletop game players) and video game creators ignore this, making elves just extraordinarily handsome people.
It's funny, but even in the 5th D&D rulebooks, there are significant sections dedicated to various races (even monster races that the player is unlikely to be able to play), but, again, many people ignore this.

I don't consider differences that are similar to what you can find among human cultures as such. Consider the drow: in BG2 you get to visit a drow city. And what do you see: a city market, a temple, a tavern and houses in-between. Same for the elven city you get to visit. How does it really differ from human cities except for the architectural style?

So unless in 5e drow cities don't copy the human city template (same as the elven bodies are based on the human body) anymore, that's a potato/potatoe difference to me.

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Elves have by lore distinct feature from the humans. Now in bg3 elves are not represented even correctly adding more "Diversity" to the race would be basically breaking the lore you may argue they look too much caucasian i say they really look way too much humans to start with.

As you see Elves have a bone structure of the face that is not caucasian at all in the pen and paper so in that Larian did the elves completely wrong.

If you want to make a character of elven heritage that have respemblance to a specific etnicy i would suggest you to make an half elf because they still have elven tracts but they retain featurers from the other other blood as well.[Linked Image]

Last edited by Rieline; 04/12/20 03:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool

Thats a shame, I haven't seen the newer tranch of codexes and so on, but the thing I always liked about them was how alien they are, depite superficially looking "human-ish" The elongated faces and the very attrctive yet cruel look. And the fact that they could theoretically be mistaken for humans, but their manner, attitudes, culture, behavior were as far removed from humans as ork culture was, just in different ways.

Well, I guess that's what happens to all the popular franchises.
Originally Posted by ash elemental
differences that are similar to what you can find among human cultures as such. Consider the drow: in BG2 you get to visit a drow city. And what do you see: a city market, a temple, a tavern and houses in-between. Same for the elven city you get to visit. How does it really differ from human cities except for the architectural style?

Life, activities, matriarchy, religion and the presence of a huge number of slaves.
Originally Posted by ash elemental
same as the elven bodies are based on the human body

Abd what's the problem here? Do you think that in order to be different from a person you need to be like the Old Ones from the Lovecraft books?

Last edited by BuckettMonkey; 04/12/20 03:02 PM.

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by Eldath

.....
It's not about actually caring about other people, you merely care about being right and your very narrow views to be pushed upon everyone as if they were universal.
If someone disagrees with you you will just refuse to engage and call whatever they said irrelevant to the discussion and expect them to accept this.
Well tough luck, I'm not accepting it.

When I said to drop the argument, I meant it.

Take 3 days away to consider your future behaviour.


Both of them posted after your initial warning, looking at the timing if one didn't see it because they were writing probably neither did the other. Shouldn't you be banning both or neither?

Ngl, it's also kinda funny that the non-white person is getting suspended after they got dragged into an argument about race and social justice by a white person. Not racist, make no mistake, just really hysterical.

And hey, if i get the bench too for saying this i'm also non-white, which would only add to the comicity levels in my book.

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It's the work of just a couple of seconds on google to find plentiful great material on non-white elves. Given that the game already has such a diverse range of skin, hair and eye colours/patterns it would be great to have some new faces to be able to make characters as awesome as this. Hope Larian listens to this feedback smile


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/5e/0d/525e0d42e28485799ad11293146086b7.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/d5/77/fcd57742b274d36150d461caa07299cc.png
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/asset...clarence-bateman-blackelf.jpg?1533154696
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-42cb4de8912149553a0931d4f50d758f
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/ab/5a/eeab5a8ceb3ae12888cb3fc4de8e55d4.jpg

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However before everywone panics as such matters tend to be very sensitive Forgotter Realms elves thend to be diverse depending on the race they belong. However expecting human diversity on a race that is not human at all is completely utterly out of place.
[img]https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...cale-to-width-down/400?cb=20090526075945[/img]

Unlike some pictures that were linked this is straight from the source material.

Last edited by Rieline; 04/12/20 03:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Braxton
It's the work of just a couple of seconds on google to find plentiful great material on non-white elves. Given that the game already has such a diverse range of skin, hair and eye colours/patterns it would be great to have some new faces to be able to make characters as awesome as this. Hope Larian listens to this feedback smile


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/5e/0d/525e0d42e28485799ad11293146086b7.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/d5/77/fcd57742b274d36150d461caa07299cc.png
https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/asset...clarence-bateman-blackelf.jpg?1533154696
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-42cb4de8912149553a0931d4f50d758f
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/ab/5a/eeab5a8ceb3ae12888cb3fc4de8e55d4.jpg

Are these arts the official depiction of elves in FR?
I am not belittling the quality of these art in any way, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to change the look of an entire race due to the good art of non-white elf on the internet. In addition, there are already dark-skin elves in Faerûn, wild elves.
You just might as well ask Larian to make vampires like this:
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/m...E.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20180627194215
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p...xJxyTnmKM9IWJ_UaflSUSDYCH-LzJEDSWBkEWU6k
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/19/70/b91970211149d609912a1ba8771b062d.jpg

Last edited by BuckettMonkey; 04/12/20 03:33 PM.

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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Are these arts the official depiction of elves in FR?
I am not belittling the quality of these art in any way, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to change the look of an entire race due to the good art of non-white elf on the internet.


Currently in BG3 I can make an orange skinned, green haired elf with all black eyes. BG3 isn't particularly concerned with limiting players to the traditional artwork, something that I doubt WOTC care about given their recent moves to decouple things like alignments and stats from race.

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WOTC still care about the lore. In fact illustration of elves in the player handbook still respect the bone structure of the face pictured in the 3.5.. Larian did many things right but as it is now did an awful job in the depiction of the elves. Elves head look way more half elf heads than elven one.

YOu can compare the source material of the 5th edition with the one of the 3.5 the visual representation of the elves is still there. It is not there however in bg3.

What i care about is the Lore. FR elves are already diverse and are not humans. Expecting humans diversity from a race that is not clearly human like i said is out of place.

Is like if i pretended to make a Githianky looking like Monica Bellucci.

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I understand both sides of this argument. I think it would be great that elves in Faerun are depicted as an alien race that have these absurdly tilted eyes, really thin faces and pointed ears. The problem is that, especially in 5e, WoTC does not enforce these "rules" in their official art. So it's basically down to the artist on whether or not an elf looks like a creature from a different species or just a human with pointy ears.

Overall, I think the character creator needs to be expanded upon anyway. Where Larian wants to take to the character creator is up to them.

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Originally Posted by dreambled
I understand both sides of this argument. I think it would be great that elves in Faerun are depicted as an alien race that have these absurdly tilted eyes, really thin faces and pointed ears. The problem is that, especially in 5e, WoTC does not enforce these "rules" in their official art. So it's basically down to the artist on whether or not an elf looks like a creature from a different species or just a human with pointy ears.

Overall, I think the character creator needs to be expanded upon anyway. Where Larian wants to take to the character creator is up to them.


Actually that's not true at all. The imagine of elves in 5th edition still are following the bone structure the elves have supposed to have. Cut of the eyes. Long noses. In D&D and in faerun the elves are supposed not to look like humans there was a well made thread in forum that actually proved that.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Rieline; 04/12/20 03:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by Braxton
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Are these arts the official depiction of elves in FR?
I am not belittling the quality of these art in any way, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to change the look of an entire race due to the good art of non-white elf on the internet.
javascript:quickReply(741543,1,0)

Currently in BG3 I can make an orange skinned, green haired elf with all black eyes.

Yes, if you turn off customization restrictions. By the way, sun elves have bronze skin, while forest elves have copper and tanned skin.
And I still don't see the point in introducing new faces for non-white elves. You can make a black-skin elf anyway.


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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
[Yes, if you turn off customization restrictions. By the way, sun elves have bronze skin, while forest elves have copper and tanned skin.
And I still don't see the point in introducing new faces for non-white elves. You can make a black-skin elf anyway.


So what's your complaint against people requesting that Larian add more faces that allow you to make an elf that appears ethnically black (or non-Caucasian)? If we already have the ability to turn off restrictions to make any colour combination, why not have that restriction enable more face options?

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Originally Posted by Braxton
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
[Yes, if you turn off customization restrictions. By the way, sun elves have bronze skin, while forest elves have copper and tanned skin.
And I still don't see the point in introducing new faces for non-white elves. You can make a black-skin elf anyway.


So what's your complaint against people requesting that Larian add more faces that allow you to make an elf that appears ethnically black (or non-Caucasian)? If we already have the ability to turn off restrictions to make any colour combination, why not have that restriction enable more face options?


One answer: Lore.
Sun elf are supposed to appear in a certain manner. Wild elf on another. Moon elf on another. Drow on another. But they all share with some difference the same bone facial structure as they are elves not humans.

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Originally Posted by Rieline
[quote=Braxton][quote=BuckettMonkey]
One answer: Lore.


For consistency then are you against the ability to turn off customisation restrictions? I'm not aware of any lore that says there are tomato elves with bright red skin and a frizz of green hair but we can make them.

It seems a strange hill to die on to insist that for your enjoyment of the game other players shouldn't be allowed a greater range of customisation options, particularly when the game already lets you make characters that have skin and hair colours that don't match lore.

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I don't get the point here.
Fantasy races are fantasy races, and if they have a specific look according to their lore, they have. I don't know if elves are distributed worldwide the same way as humans are in D&D and if they distinguish from each other the same way as humans do.
My complain about the elves here would be more that they look like canadian wood-cutters but not like elves and therefore actually are wrong according to elfish lore.
However, each race/gender in BG3 could get some more selectable faces than 4 (or 6 for humans).

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