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Well, I am a completionist and I will always discover all maps unless there is a reason that forces me not to do it.
Speed runners can see things different, but I think the devs made all this content so I might as well look at it.

In the WotR beta, a few players complained that there was a hidden optional area on a map and the player has no reason to go there.
My answer was: The fact that there is an unknown area is reason enough for me to explore it.

Even if time was a critical factor, this would not stop people from exploring. In Kingmaker (main quest has a timer) and PoE2 (there is an option to play with an in game timer) most time is spend travelling the world map or resting. Those timers do not hinder you to fully explore every map you visit. They only force you to optimize the way you travel between maps and to avoid resting after every battle.


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How could people not have noticed by now that the state of the game is that of a DOS2 reskin with some mod?

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I wasn't talking about Pathfinder kingmaker, why is everyone talking about that game?
I mentioned the new game Pathfinder game Wrath of the righteous which is also like BG3 in EA/beta. Yea its not perfect, so is BG3 far form perfect. But Warth of the righteous plays more like a prior Baldurs gate game, upgraded to modern standards. Has 6 party members. Tons of cool classes and kits. Realtime with pause AND turn base. A pretty good UI. Day/night atmosphere with calendar/time. The dialogues seem fun and with lots of options.
Sheesh that all. Wasnt trying to start a war, just making a point THAT THERE ARE MODERN GAMES FEEL and PLAY MORE LIKE THE CLASSIC BG GAMES MORE THAN BG3. Having JUST THE STORYLINE doesn't make a game 100% Baldurs gate for me. The gameplay and atmosphere should also have a say in this.

The most important part is that it has a TRUE CLASS SYSTEM.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 14/03/21 02:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Why would I compare it to the first Kingmaker game?? Wrath of the Righteous is also in Beta, and BG3 is Larians 3RD RPG GAME using basically the same system.
I just thought that is really cool having 6 party members, tons of playable NPCs and all these different variation of classes available. Something that BG3 should of a least have.
Its like EVERY SINGLE CRPGS out there feels MORE LIKE BALDURS GATE than BALDURS GATE 3. Its so incredibly ironic, I just dont understand why people dont get it. Especially Larian.

I pre-ordered Pathfinder: Kingmaker, followed parts of the early access and made the largest wiki basically single-handed expecting the game let me get my BG-groove on. Then came the huge let down. Even when you looked past all the game-breaking bugs and borked mechanics that took Owlcat about a year to iron out, the story and writing was average at best, the characters flat tropes. I was reminded that for me, game evolution had not been frozen in time over two decades, and that I had changed too. I suspect a large majority of those who still hold BG2 on a pedestal like the pinnacle of RPGs, want to feel blown out of the water like they once were as naive, impressionable, youth. A much, much harder goal when jaded by time and by so much on offer.

To say every single CRPG feels more like the original BG-series (Baldur's Gate is more than that even before the inclusion of BG3), is a view that lacks even a semblance of nuance. At the best of times, only somewhat true if you completely disregard story, narration, characters and interaction (which was the true essence of BG-series in my mind), to focus on purely mechanical issues. 6 vs 4, and RTwP vs TB is flogging the proverbial dead horse. These things were simply mechanics of the original series, not the essence of it as you seem to think. Larian, for their stubborn belief that Larian cheese is "the one way", at least understands this clearly.

The reason Bioware went with RTwP over TB, which would've been the more faithful AD&D implementation, is believed to largely be the PACING. Rolling a lot of dice and moving individual characters with pause is quite time-consuming. Especially when you throw in lots of trash encounters with enemies designed to "cheat the system" (ie. Kobold Commandos that were counted as 1/2 HD mobs in terms of XP, but were significantly more dangerous) like Bioware did. In BG3 everything is painstakingly handcrafted. This only becomes more true with a larger party. So if you want, in your own words, something that feels MORE like Baldur's Gate, then you also want something that feels LESS like D&D in a very significant way (another issue I believe you harp on). Or you have to disregard a common criticism of combat already being too slow-paced with a smaller party.

Maybe Larian isn't the blind fools you take them for, but that it's you who refuse to see that Larian has to make compromises in a game based on tabletop mechanics yet reflect contemporary computer game design. Mind you, I'm guilty of thinking this too when it comes to much of the Larian cheese, but at least I like to think my criticisms are well-reasoned.

+1 ...Couldn't agree more.

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I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game. The dialogue writing in PoEII was cringe worthy... Not saying it was bad but I enjoy the EA of Larians BG3 a 1000 times more.

In my opinion they are doing a great job and I am really looking forward to whats next.

Last edited by SarwenUndomiel; 17/03/21 03:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by SarwenUndomiel
I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game.
Fantastic art style, unique setting, fun and complex combat, which unlike BG3 requires different strategies for each encounter.

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In POE2 i had to prepare for the combat randomness so you actually needed a strategy in that game. Specially with enemy upscaled playthroughs on the hardest difficulty. You couldn't beat it just by exploding a barrel, backstabbing enemies or throwing bombs from a hill every encounter. You had to know how to draw agro away from your squishies and where to place your characters and the gear was also super important. You had to know buff order and which disable to use. Most fun came from using a bloodmage multiclass for infinite spells with full regeneration gear. The boat battles were still a complete clusterfuck but i always cracked up at my overleveled caster crew members raining death like crazy.

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I liked the pirate and magic setting, but combat in PoE2 playing turn based was just terribly boring. The game is full of trash combat encounters that just dragged on and offered no challenge. Trash mobs work in real time because you can kill them quickly and move on, but in turn based even if you can defeat an enemy quickly, the encounter will still take much longer.

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Originally Posted by SarwenUndomiel
I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game. The dialogue writing in PoEII was cringe worthy...
Obsidian is one of the very best developers out there when it comes to writing. And by contrast it is Larian whose writing has been utterly atrocious in the D:OS games. and remains questionable in BG3. Plus all the other things @Danielbda and @JDCrenton have said.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by SarwenUndomiel
I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game. The dialogue writing in PoEII was cringe worthy...
Obsidian is one of the very best developers out there when it comes to writing. And by contrast it is Larian whose writing has been utterly atrocious in the D:OS games. and remains questionable in BG3. Plus all the other things @Danielbda and @JDCrenton have said.

They were good at writing at one time in their company's history, but the writing in POE 1 and 2 is subpar at best.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by SarwenUndomiel
I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game. The dialogue writing in PoEII was cringe worthy...
Obsidian is one of the very best developers out there when it comes to writing. And by contrast it is Larian whose writing has been utterly atrocious in the D:OS games. and remains questionable in BG3. Plus all the other things @Danielbda and @JDCrenton have said.

You must have spent too much time under the rock smile
Obsidian's writing quality is dire right now.
PoE2 is the best example of this with a tragically short and boring story.
In the case of Larian, you can see progress in every game.

Last edited by Rhobar121; 18/03/21 03:47 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by SarwenUndomiel
I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game. The dialogue writing in PoEII was cringe worthy...
Obsidian is one of the very best developers out there when it comes to writing. And by contrast it is Larian whose writing has been utterly atrocious in the D:OS games. and remains questionable in BG3. Plus all the other things @Danielbda and @JDCrenton have said.

You must have spent too much time under the rock smile
Obsidian's writing quality is dire right now.
PoE2 is the best example of this with a tragically short and boring story.
In the case of Larian, you can see progress in every game.
But the gameplay is awesome. And given that it is a game, to me it mathers the most.
Regardless wether you think the gameplay in the DOS games is good or not, it is undeniably cheesy with tons of exploits.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by SarwenUndomiel
I don't get why so many people think that PoEII was a very good game. The dialogue writing in PoEII was cringe worthy...
Obsidian is one of the very best developers out there when it comes to writing. And by contrast it is Larian whose writing has been utterly atrocious in the D:OS games. and remains questionable in BG3. Plus all the other things @Danielbda and @JDCrenton have said.

You must have spent too much time under the rock smile
Obsidian's writing quality is dire right now.
PoE2 is the best example of this with a tragically short and boring story.
In the case of Larian, you can see progress in every game.
But the gameplay is awesome. And given that it is a game, to me it mathers the most.
Regardless wether you think the gameplay in the DOS games is good or not, it is undeniably cheesy with tons of exploits.


You know it's just your opinion?
Compared to PoE1, where the fight was tragic, PoE2 is definitely better.
It is a pity that they didnt do it in PoE1, maybe then people wouldn't get discouraged so much and the sale of PoE2 would be better.
I wouldn't mind a few PoE2 systems going into BG3 but then people would complain that there was even less D&D than there is now.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
You know it's just your opinion?
Compared to PoE1, where the fight was tragic, PoE2 is definitely better.
It is a pity that they didnt do it in PoE1, maybe then people wouldn't get discouraged so much and the sale of PoE2 would be better.
I wouldn't mind a few PoE2 systems going into BG3 but then people would complain that there was even less D&D than there is now.
Eh... no, it is not my opinion that the DOS games are cheesy and easily exploiteable, just watch some videos about people beating the game solely by manipulating chests. Since they went for some sort of hybrid DOS/D&D adaptation, some of that exploitability kinda dripped onto BG3.

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
They were good at writing at one time in their company's history, but the writing in POE 1 and 2 is subpar at best.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
You must have spent too much time under the rock smile
Obsidian's writing quality is dire right now.
PoE2 is the best example of this with a tragically short and boring story.
In the case of Larian, you can see progress in every game.
Your personal opinions, with which I profoundly disagree. Even with PoE2, which we know to have been under-resourced and rushed, I find its story, characters, and quests to be way more interesting than anything Larian has thus far produced. And even PoE2 is well-worth replaying for me.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
They were good at writing at one time in their company's history, but the writing in POE 1 and 2 is subpar at best.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
You must have spent too much time under the rock smile
Obsidian's writing quality is dire right now.
PoE2 is the best example of this with a tragically short and boring story.
In the case of Larian, you can see progress in every game.
Your personal opinions, with which I profoundly disagree. Even with PoE2, which we know to have been under-resourced and rushed, I find its story, characters, and quests to be way more interesting than anything Larian has thus far produced. And even PoE2 is well-worth replaying for me.

I agree. No idea how anyone can think the writing in PoE2 is bad. When the NPCs speak I really feel like adventuring in a fantasy version of the spanish main. In BG3 on the other hand I half expect a laugh track playing after every sentence.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
They were good at writing at one time in their company's history, but the writing in POE 1 and 2 is subpar at best.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
You must have spent too much time under the rock smile
Obsidian's writing quality is dire right now.
PoE2 is the best example of this with a tragically short and boring story.
In the case of Larian, you can see progress in every game.
Your personal opinions, with which I profoundly disagree. Even with PoE2, which we know to have been under-resourced and rushed, I find its story, characters, and quests to be way more interesting than anything Larian has thus far produced. And even PoE2 is well-worth replaying for me.

I think PoE2 is really good. Its so easy to get lost in the world. The atmosphere is spot on. The combat interesting as well as the classes. 5 playable characters...feels perfect. 8 Companions, 6 sidekicks (not as much dialogue/storyline than companions) or you can hire/make your own adventurer from the taverns. The story can be short but that's if you just want to speedrun the game. TONS of places to explore. I think the dialogues are fine and actually can RP my character (A twin saber weiding chanter/skald/barbarian HOWLER!).

Tons of little details that makes the game alive. Birds flying, insects, day/night/early morning/dusk with weather, NPC reacts to rain, clouds shadow, wonderful shadows from light sources... And the sound is super detailed. In a Tavern or out in the wild, you feel your there. I love the setting.

Add just a couple of GREAT mods to this (community patch mod, enhanced interface, funnering improved classes and more AI conditions) and the game is beyond great now.
Graphics are WAY IMPROVED if you install ReShade for the game.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 19/03/21 03:29 PM.
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Look Obsidian made Neverwinter Nights 2. Still my favorite cRPG. But even with mods from Kaedrin, TonyK, and Reerun; it's still limited by the tech of the time. Even with my RAW issues with BG3 so far, I have hope that Larian will hit this out of the park. I like a lot of what they have done so far.

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Originally Posted by Merlex
Look Obsidian made Neverwinter Nights 2. Still my favorite cRPG. But even with mods from Kaedrin, TonyK, and Reerun; it's still limited by the tech of the time. Even with my RAW issues with BG3 so far, I have hope that Larian will hit this out of the park. I like a lot of what they have done so far.

Try the Mask of the Betrayer for NWN2. One of the CRPGs out there.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by Merlex
Look Obsidian made Neverwinter Nights 2. Still my favorite cRPG. But even with mods from Kaedrin, TonyK, and Reerun; it's still limited by the tech of the time. Even with my RAW issues with BG3 so far, I have hope that Larian will hit this out of the park. I like a lot of what they have done so far.

Try the Mask of the Betrayer for NWN2. One of the CRPGs out there.

As MotB is an expansion of NWN2, I suspect Merlex has already played it...

There is also this NWN2 Module...

https://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/794

And allegedly, in 2021, the follow-up...

https://www.facebook.com/BaldursGateReloaded/

I wonder if they will make it before BG3 is released?

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[quote=starlord7]I wish this was made in the style of Pillars of Eternity II but even more refined. Pillars II was so impressive, imagine what a company who actually understands and respects Baldur's Gate would have achieved.

I'm playing Divinity II, got to Arx and I've lost all interest in playing the game. The mechanics is some of the sloppy and exploitable stuff I've ever seen, but Larian seems to think everything is peachy and they importing nearly all those gaming concepts into Baldur's Gate. But what I really can't stand is the slowness of turn-based combat and how every enemy goes through a slow casting animation, it makes combat frankly unbearable.

Larian, while creative and brilliant, seem totally whimsical to me as if they don't even give a $*** what we think. A lot of the game mechanics in Divinity II are so unnecessary and sadistic, Obsidian had a faaar better understanding of paying homage to Baldur's gate and I would have LOVED RTwP... they deserved to make it, it's all so sad the state of the world these days, no offense meant to Larian but why can't they make a Divinity III with faster combat instead, it's like some executive saw that Divinity gets good reviews on metacritic and they gave it to them based solely on that.[/quote]


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POE2 was waaay waayy overbalanced. Leveling up felt like you accomplished nor gained nothing. The loot was also dismal at best. The NPCS where super boring with too much context put into diversity, equality, political correctness woke crap instead of making them actually entertaining. The narrative and main story was also far from immersive, it was garbage.

What they did you really well was the games engine and the the graphics, i really liked that.

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