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Honestly, sometimes you just want to spend time paling around with, playing with and adventuring together with someone who has a bright outlook, despite hard times.

Some games, I only really want to pursue any kind of romantic chase with just the happiest, friendliest, most fun-loving character in my camp.

*Looks at all of her current companions*

Whelp, guess I'm waiting for the 'romancable scratch' mod then....

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Originally Posted by Zarna
I had also stated that I hope there would be companions of the type the OP prefers as well. This would also include someone like you I think? I had interpreted them to be wanting the more stereotypical older style companions, not sure if this is what you also want. My comment about looking at things from their point of view was more to try and help OP and maybe others to perhaps find it easier to deal with them for now.

I would like to see many possible companions so everyone would be happy. Ideally an origin one for each class or one of every alignment, then in the next act to have new options to better create the ideal party. The current companions certainly don't fit in all of my parties but I am willing to put up with them (we have the same goal for now) until I find others I prefer to join me later. This is something I have got used to in every game I play, there is rarely a full group of perfect companions I can find. Closest I ever got was the ME trilogy, probably because the group was so small. I can definitely understand you not wanting to make a party of full customs, this is a pain unless you are bored enough to create backstories for everyone and even then you miss out on possible dialogue.

Fair enough. And for the record, I wasn't being critical of your earlier post. Just using it as a good segue to my related point. smile

As for stereotypical companions, be they of an older generational style or the current generational style, I have mixed feelings. While it is easy to say I don't want any such companions, the truth is that sometimes those kinds of companions are nice to have along in my party. So, bottom line, a very broad range of different types of companions.

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Originally Posted by Iszaryn
I like the idea of female companions or companions in general that doesn't just readily accept whatever the player character does and turn a blind eye to them. I like the idea of companions that stand up to the player character and questions them on their choices and not follow the player blindly.

Same here. I just wish there were more actual conversations we could have with all of them about at least the important decisions.

Originally Posted by Ankou
I keep seeing people saying we get evil first so expect them to be abrasive and unlikable. The best evil people are super charming. They're just selfish. Astarion is actually a great example of this. Shadowheart isn't even really that evil, and seems to be evil despite herself frankly, and I'm guessing the story will explain that in such a way that she isn't even bad. Nonetheless, Laezel makes perfect sense to me. I mean look at the other Githyanki we meet. Damn!

I say this more because a lot of people seem to feel that friendly = good and unfriendly = evil. I can't really see a typical "good" character being grumpy about working with others but "evil" often prefers not to, although when I play them in TT I can work with others just fine. You forgot to mention Gale though, he is a rather nice sort but I am firmly convinced he has potential to be one of the most evil ones. laugh

Originally Posted by kanisatha

So, bottom line, a very broad range of different types of companions.

Can definitely agree with this. Would like Larian to have this in game but I do wonder if modders can add some as well.

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Modder-created companions are not going to be fully integrated into the game in terms of their story and their reactions and dialogue lines within the game. And in that case I may as well create the companions myself (which again to repeat, I do not care for at all).

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I like the current female companions, actually both of them and Wyll are the only companions I'm sold on really. But yes the game completely needs more female characters of different and varied kinds, not just, 'nice' or for player consumption
Shadowheart was my favourite companion, I say was because I hear rumours she's been changed and haven't gotten far through the replay. But I assume not that much. And wassname, Githlady, is the driven paladin type that usually works in BG, just with more interesting beliefs.

Originally Posted by kanisatha
Modder-created companions are not going to be fully integrated into the game in terms of their story and their reactions and dialogue lines within the game. And in that case I may as well create the companions myself (which again to repeat, I do not care for at all).


Has Larian said something about this? Modders in BG2 did a good job of fully integrating companions into the game, often more so than the base game did. It would be a shame if there were limits in place to stop that being possible this time around despite just the difficulties brought by voice acted lines.

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IMHO the issue isn't the female companions are "mean." The issue is the characters are overwritten edgelords. Lae'zel is a partial exception, because she seems like a normal low-level Gith character. But everyone else is given this long, tragic, unique-seeming backstory. This is because the devs want us to play the backstory origins, but it means that - unfortunately - if you pick a custom character (as 90%+ of us do) the story focus of the companions overshadows your own story.

In terms of story narrative, companions should be treated as supporting roles within the story of the protagonist - not prime roles. This does not mean they need to be shallow. For example, look at Planescape: Torment. The companions were very unique for a CRPG, and many of them (Morte and Dakkon in particular) had a very long, detailed backstory that you could explore. However, the central focus of the story was the Nameless One, who had a much, much deeper story than the average game.

Essentially I feel like you either need to have relatively shallow companions if you have a "blank slate" style PC (as Tav is) or you need to put some work in framing the main character with unique origin stories and perspectives.

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Originally Posted by Iszaryn
I like the idea of female companions or companions in general that doesn't just readily accept whatever the player character does and turn a blind eye to them. I like the idea of companions that stand up to the player character and questions them on their choices and not follow the player blindly.


Male characters are capable of having opinions and voicing displeasure or dissatisfaction, but unlike Lae'zel, they are capable of acting like teammates, or, at least, can be civil.

Originally Posted by Ankou
I keep seeing people saying we get evil first so expect them to be abrasive and unlikable. The best evil people are super charming. They're just selfish. Astarion is actually a great example of this. Shadowheart isn't even really that evil, and seems to be evil despite herself frankly, and I'm guessing the story will explain that in such a way that she isn't even bad. Nonetheless, Laezel makes perfect sense to me. I mean look at the other Githyanki we meet. Damn!


I would be fine with them being coarse at first and gradually trusting the player, it just seems jarring to me that they never let up. The closest thing between the two of them we have to companionship is SH's sarcasm/jokes.
Sure, it's just Act 1, but let's imagine that these were actual people; how long would they all put up with Lae'zel before just killing/leaving her and finding their own way? Seems the story is able to go on fine without her.

Hell, maybe if we got a way to push it a little? Like, provoke/tease them. At least if they're going to be unfriendly and scathing, let us have fun with it.

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Originally Posted by SuprSaiyanRockr
Originally Posted by Iszaryn
I like the idea of female companions or companions in general that doesn't just readily accept whatever the player character does and turn a blind eye to them. I like the idea of companions that stand up to the player character and questions them on their choices and not follow the player blindly.


Male characters are capable of having opinions and voicing displeasure or dissatisfaction, but unlike Lae'zel, they are capable of acting like teammates, or, at least, can be civil.

Originally Posted by Ankou
I keep seeing people saying we get evil first so expect them to be abrasive and unlikable. The best evil people are super charming. They're just selfish. Astarion is actually a great example of this. Shadowheart isn't even really that evil, and seems to be evil despite herself frankly, and I'm guessing the story will explain that in such a way that she isn't even bad. Nonetheless, Laezel makes perfect sense to me. I mean look at the other Githyanki we meet. Damn!


I would be fine with them being coarse at first and gradually trusting the player, it just seems jarring to me that they never let up. The closest thing between the two of them we have to companionship is SH's sarcasm/jokes.
Sure, it's just Act 1, but let's imagine that these were actual people; how long would they all put up with Lae'zel before just killing/leaving her and finding their own way? Seems the story is able to go on fine without her.

Hell, maybe if we got a way to push it a little? Like, provoke/tease them. At least if they're going to be unfriendly and scathing, let us have fun with it.


I don't know what you're talking about! I get along very well with Lae, and I have a much harder time with Shadow. I don't understand why people necessarily need soft and easy-going characters, especially when it about female characters.

Lae believes that it is she who saves you, not you who saves her. In the first act, her quest barely moves, that's the problem, which means we can't get closer and find more understanding. You also need to understand that she will be angry if you are soft on others. I don't see any problem with that, but I do see people who are used to female characters being soft and responsive. That real problem here...


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Originally Posted by Nyloth

Lae believes that it is she who saves you, not you who saves her. In the first act, her quest barely moves, that's the problem, which means we can't get closer and find more understanding. You also need to understand that she will be angry if you are soft on others. I don't see any problem with that, but I do see people who are used to female characters being soft and responsive. That real problem here...


There is no problem with this, except for the fact that the only two characters who don't mind if you do heroic things and help people are both dudes (Gale and Wyll). There are no good, or even neutral-aligned, female characters.

People are not complaining really that the characters exist, only that there's not the same diversity of outlook among the female characters as among the male characters. Lots of people (based upon statistics from other games, the vast majority of players) have no interest roleplaying evil.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth

I do see people who are used to female characters being soft and responsive. That real problem here...

I disagree, that's not a problem, being a soft and responsive woman is perfectly fine, and it would be nice to have that represented in the game by at least one character.
Soft and responsive women bring out the protective instinct in us the same way Astarion brings out the saviour complex in many of us. Having several characters to connect to is nice, and not everyone will be appreciative of Laezel's whole strongwoman schtick. That being said I think Shadowheart is a top notch companion so far, I find her very gripping. I just wish Larian revealed some of the enw companions soon, because I want to complain about the stuff I don't like about them.

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i didnt have any issues with the characterization of the female characters/companions we had gotten pre the recent behavior patches - i actually thought larian did a good job portraying 1) a xenophobic githyanki raider stuck on what she would consider an alien world, 2) an elitist and untrusting cleric of a highly secretive religion devoted to a forbidden/evil goddess, and 3) another elitist cleric of a new and growing cult to a god that has no issues with raiding/killing innocents (including your party at the early gate fight) - however i cant help but feel that the current female characters in game got shortchanged as a result of the EA implementation and feedback, as there werent any 'good' female npcs/companions to balance what larian told us upfront were intended to be more evil-aligned playthrus as part of EA, and as a result the current 'evil' female characters we have are being watered down to compensate, which admittedly im not a fan of.

it makes me worry that larian will take the same approach for the 'good' female (or male) characters/companions once they are implemented - that ppl will post that they are 'too nice' or more 'demands' for romance change, and that larian will take away some of the npcs characterization so to compensate, which i kinda think is short sited and not a great resource use.

as an aside, i also think being able to romance/jump your companions bones so early in game/act progression, even as part of EA, also exacerbates the issue - i think too much feedback being shared is along the lines of 'i want to be able to romance x, so change their personality to better fit my headcannon for how they should perceive/react me' - i think feedback, including romance related is important, i just think excessive time is being spent on adjusting npcs personalities instead of other areas of the games development like number of party members, total companion number and variety, camera and party controls, more races and classes, more use of skill proficiencies, resting/camp mechanics, etc.

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Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by Nyloth

I do see people who are used to female characters being soft and responsive. That real problem here...

I disagree, that's not a problem, being a soft and responsive woman is perfectly fine, and it would be nice to have that represented in the game by at least one character.
Soft and responsive women bring out the protective instinct in us the same way Astarion brings out the saviour complex in many of us. Having several characters to connect to is nice, and not everyone will be appreciative of Laezel's whole strongwoman schtick. That being said I think Shadowheart is a top notch companion so far, I find her very gripping. I just wish Larian revealed some of the enw companions soon, because I want to complain about the stuff I don't like about them.


Larian has already been told that you will have more companions, so maybe just wait? but people can't wait, they literally say that the companions we have now are "angry and aggressive", which is why they changed Shadow. I didn't say that soft female characters are bad, I said that the fact that people can't perceive strong and rough female characters this is a problem. Do you see the difference? And ppl bring up topic like this again and again, in every thread, when it is already known that there will be more companions. This is early access! Did you know?

So why do we continue to condemn characters like Shadow and Lae? That's exactly what you're doing here guys.

"Well Lae is very rude... nothing prevents you from removing it...."

I mean, I did not accidentally answer exactly the post, which literally boils down to the fact that Lae as a character does not trust you enough and is not open enough. She's an evil git, and this is only the first act. Once again, read the post to which I originally replied, please.

Astarion did not awaken in me saviour complex, lol. more like an instinct to fall into the abyss. I think it's very individual.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
[quote=Bruh]

Larian has already been told that you will have more companions, so maybe just wait? but people can't wait, they literally say that the companions we have now are "angry and aggressive", which is why they changed Shadow. I didn't say that soft female characters are bad, I said that the fact that people can't perceive strong and rough female characters this is a problem. Do you see the difference? And ppl bring up topic like this again and again, in every thread, when it is already known that there will be more companions. This is early access! Did you know?

So why do we continue to condemn characters like Shadow and Lae? That's exactly what you're doing here guys.

"Well Lae is very rude... nothing prevents you from removing it...."

I mean, I did not accidentally answer exactly the post, which literally boils down to the fact that Lae as a character does not trust you enough and is not open enough. She's an evil git, and this is only the first act. Once again, read the post to which I originally replied, please.

Astarion did not awaken in me saviour complex, lol. more like an instinct to fall into the abyss. I think it's very individual.


I know right? Astarion makes everyone go nuts. Best character so far, no contest.
Btw, Lae is angry and aggressive, which is why I will kill her all the time, and I like that the game gives me this opportunity. Also I didn't condemn any characters so far, I hate Gale and Lae but that's okay, no RPG is fun without a couple of companions losing their heads because they tried to screw with me. I even like Kagha and I don't want her changed, nor do I want SH changed (unless they change her back that is).
Really I love what Larian has done so far, I will only begin screaming obscenities if a tiefling paladin unironically becomes a party member because then I will f'ckin lose it.

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I dont like Astarion, but do like Lae and (original) Shadow,, no contest so maybe, these characters aren't objectively best or worst, but different people like different things.
You know, what people like in companions are subjective.

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I agree that the current two females are the two most disagreeable companions out of the group. Not only that, something like half of their reactions are complete opposites - if you please one the other disagrees. It's like the damn catfights back in high school all over again. And yes, I have uncovered the plot element of why Shadowheart and Lae'zel are at odds, but did they have to apply that plot to the only two current female companions?

[humor] It's like Larian specifically designed the companions to make a female harem impossible. I demand gender equality - if you can have a male harem, you should be able to have a female one! [/humor]

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Originally Posted by Bruh


I know right? Astarion makes everyone go nuts. Best character so far, no contest.
Btw, Lae is angry and aggressive, which is why I will kill her all the time, and I like that the game gives me this opportunity. Also I didn't condemn any characters so far, I hate Gale and Lae but that's okay, no RPG is fun without a couple of companions losing their heads because they tried to screw with me. I even like Kagha and I don't want her changed, nor do I want SH changed (unless they change her back that is).
Really I love what Larian has done so far, I will only begin screaming obscenities if a tiefling paladin unironically becomes a party member because then I will f'ckin lose it.


That's fine, you can do whatever you want with characters you don't like. As long as you don't ask devs/writers to change them for you, just because you don't like them. That's what annoys me.

"Could she be a little nicer and more trusting? Bububu'

No! not at this stage of the story. Head from his shoulders! Next question!

____


btw Astarion better communicates with Lae than with Shadow :3



Last edited by Nyloth; 16/12/20 01:24 AM.

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Karlach from Hunt the Devil girl can potentially have a decent character. I mean she is running from the literal hell, she can't be a complete asshole.

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Originally Posted by Bruh
I think people whine too much about companions. Shadowheart WAS good before last update,

Does anyone have a list/references for exactly how Shadowheart has been changed?

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I'd like to see that too, if someone has a list/breakdown

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Originally Posted by Abits
I think your point about the dice roll is true. I don't think dice rolls should be a part of companion story arc.

This
There are way too much roll in every situation and it's very dissapointing missing things about companions because of dices.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/12/20 12:54 AM.
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