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Originally Posted by Sordak
i actually disagree with newer is better.
Its just that third edition is the worst. 5th edition is a close second in beeing terrible, its saving grace mostly beeing the battlemaster.

But the Boomerism argument is silly.

Anyone saying that and preferring 2nd edition, is at least 35 y.o just by knowing the 2nd edition. And no I didn't mean it in an offensive way like boomerism..just outdated.


Originally Posted by Bruh
Originally Posted by TripleKill
out dated otherwise as a start.
That would assume that new = better && old = worse, which is not true.

The only way that makes sense is to use the updated whatever version as a base and build/change upon it.There can be bad parts in 5th edition aswell and designers can just fix them in game.

There are horrible things in earlier editions aswell.

let me tell u how out dated 2nd edition is.
You cannot multiclass if you are a human not at all.

And you can only multiclass certain classes with certain races, and you dont even multiclass to some subclasses.
Let's say if you are a dwarf u can only be:
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Cleric

Thats where it ends.

And I am not even gonna mention what is a "dual class", and how horrible is that mechanic is with %0 logic..I don't want to scare youngsters laugh

is that what makes it superrior? I think its just better than 1st edition smile

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Both 3.5e and 5e have their merits. Assuming Larian actually implements the rest of the PHB for 5e (and continues to do their adjustments for video games), I actually prefer the 5e system as a base.

3.5e has more customization decisions, but most of the mechanics scales terribly.

5e has more limited customization decisions, but Larian seems to be actively going out of their way to add more to the game - i.e. weapon special attacks etc. I think if they activated rolling stats or a higher point buy, that might encourage people to pick up more feats to solve that issue.

I feel like at the very least, the 5e classes have far more identity. And multi-classing casting is a joy in 5e.

Not sure how they can fix skills, but I didn't love the 3.5e skills mechanic either. Its dependency on INT and hyper-specialization had its own issues.

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It seems pretty cut and dry to me. 5e is the current edition of Dnd, therefore Bg3, an official Dnd game, is based on 5e. Larian isn't going to add years of extra work in development to restructure their game towards an older system.

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actually i think the restricitons of 2e are features not detriments.
i also enjoy race as class from BECMI

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When 5th first came out and WotC started publishing modules with rules on how you could run this game using 3rd or 4th ed rules I thought that there would be hope for games that used different rulesets. But with 5th being the most popular that hope died there is approximately zero chance that wizards will want to allow a game based on a less popular set of rules.

And even if that was incorrect I doubt they would choose 3.5. Most 3.5 fans prefer Pathfinder and have even started calling PF 3.75, the edition that WotC should have created.

OP, I see you haven't played Temple of Elemental Evil -- you need to. All of the critiques are valid -- no story to speak of, bad writing, annoying bugs but as a 3.5 rule simulator it's unparalleled. (make sure to grab the fan made looting bug fix)

But I'm a 2nd edition partisan and I think 5th is the second best. In 5th it's easier to lose feats -- in 3.5 if you chose the wrong feat you are locked into into it. In this the DOS2 ruleset was better -- don't like your build? Go to the respec mirror rebuild yourself.

2nd didn't have this problem. Not happy carrying around the Shield of the Fallen Lord and helmet of telepathy? Take them off and put something else on. Do a quest and get shield you really like. No need to locked into a decision you made 5 levels ago.

Oh, and
Quote
let me tell u how out dated 2nd edition is.
You cannot multiclass if you are a human not at all.

No, humans can dual class which is much better. Want to rule Throne of Bhaal? Build a cleric to level 17, dual class to mage. That build can take on the gods themselves. Want to tell a story about the rogue who went legit? Build a thief to level five and dual class.

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Originally Posted by TripleKill
You cannot multiclass if you are a human not at all.
Yeah and that was a good thing. It made humans special compared to anyone else. In 3.5, humans could multiclass any class without getting an XP penalty. Dual classing was also actually fun, and given that I still play BG2, I'm a big fan of the thing. I also liked the idea that certain classes demand such dedication that you can't multiclass, like the paladin.

BG2 may not be perfect but lets not forget that its a great game and fun to play to this very day and I love it a lot.
That being said I prefer 3.5. It's my favorite edition, and we will just have to wait and see what happens with BG3.

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Originally Posted by Sordak
i actually disagree with newer is better.
Its just that third edition is the worst. 5th edition is a close second in beeing terrible, its saving grace mostly beeing the battlemaster.

But the Boomerism argument is silly.

Maybe 3E was bad, but 3.5E was really fun. (Again, I understand why people were not in love with the quantification of everything, I appreciated the standardized structure shared between the DM and the player - we were all operating under a clear set of constraints.) That being said, I consider balance issues a separate consideration (and a fair criticism).

I mentioned it in another post, but I appreciated the level of customization 3.5E offered. Again, as a person who does not care about optimization, and am accustomed to DM’s taking the full capabilities of the party into account, I do not mind that there is the chance of creating a suboptimal PC through “bad” feat combos. In my opinion, most people in life are not “optimized”; in fact, our foibles kind of make us who we are :o)

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Quote
No, humans can dual class which is much better. Want to rule Throne of Bhaal? Build a cleric to level 17, dual class to mage. That build can take on the gods themselves. Want to tell a story about the rogue who went legit? Build a thief to level five and dual class.

Let me explain. You cannot level 17 cleric and dual to wizard and use both in BG2 without removing the xp cap; via mod, cheat or using console. Highest level u can dual class is 13 regarding XP cap.

Dual classing means u forfeit ur previous class all of its modifiers, proficiencies, abilities "except hitpoints". That class level becomes inactive, untill ur new class gets 1 level higher than the previous one which is 18 in ur case. So dual classing very much at the end game means, good luck using sling untill the end of TB. Carried by the rest of ur party being a hutchback prettymuch. When you hit Lvl 18 wizard u, will have ur cleric abilities and proficiencies back. Again which is totally same with multiclassing in a very handicapped way.

And how does that makes sense, like you dual from fighter Lvl 13 lets say and become a wizard but somehow u forget which end u grab the sword? confused for the upcoming 14 Levels..

its pretty broken in an unfixable way since thats a core rule in that edition..But yea back in the day that was the only option to be able to get a prestige/subclass and multi with an other one..Like a kensai/mage. which you can do those kind of levelling choices with out weird rules like they were in 2nd edition, thanks to the laterones.

And about godliness, its pretty much same having a Lvl 17 in one class and 18 Lvl in an other, makes u godlike. Tempus himself is a Lvl 20 warrior + Lvl 20 Barbarian. Most demigods are Lvl 10 +Lvl 20 of an other class.

But again I am not calling all 2nd edition was utterly crappy just outdated as it is..On the other hand tell me that in 2nd edition all weps have different speeds and I would definitely say it was amazing and adds more versality to the gameplay although making it harder in a way smile

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Originally Posted by TripleKill
Let me explain. You cannot level 17 cleric and dual to wizard and use both in BG2 without removing the xp cap;
Yes you can without any mods. I know this because I did it laugh

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What Bruh said. With the EEs I've been able to do a completionist run without hitting a cap. Now it's possible that xp cap remover was in one of the mod packages I downloaded but I'm guessing that Beamdog just removed the cap.

On "why you forget to swing a sword?" -- because your morning routine is entirely different. You are no longer maintaining your armor and practicing your swing, you are hitting the books, memorizing the sequences etc. (or learning use finesse, or performing your morning devotions . . .). Now, granted, you have to suspend disbelief some but it's not like you don't do that in 3.5. The .5 rule of the 5 foot step was a necessary correction to the OP attack of opportunity problem* but it completely broke immersion. Somehow yoga because a part of the training of every young adventurer. "Okay, now in the seconds before the orc attacks I do the splits, come to stand on my left toe, pirouette, and start casting"




* (*Oprah voice* -- you get a free AOE! And you get a free AOE! Free AOEs for everyone! I think DOS2 corrected this problem best by making 'opportunist' a feat fighters had to take.)

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Quote
But again I am not calling all 2nd edition was utterly crappy just outdated as it is..On the other hand tell me that in 2nd edition all weps have different speeds and I would definitely say it was amazing and adds more versality to the gameplay although making it harder in a way

Sure. smile Agreed that weapon speed was nice. As was weapon reach -- gave someone a reason to carry a spear instead of an axe.

2nd was a hot mess and I miss it. But it's gone. But with the success of 5th, all the editions that are not 5th are now out of date. Which isn't bad, I really like that 5th brought back the 1st ed element of "just say what you want to do and I'll decide if it works" and thus far that's been my favorite part of BG3. Boulders to push, bottles to throw etc.

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