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Originally Posted by rqwertwylker
Seen these two issues mentioned a few times;

1. The fact that players have no limits on long rests.
2. The fact that the camp position is immersion breaking and goofy.

I'm sure Larian is working on some sort of fix for this, or at the least has considered working on one. I have an idea I think might work. But it could definitely use some fine tuning and inputs from people much smarter than I am.

1. Give the camp a fixed position.

2. Make the camp discoverable to hostile NPCs. Reasons may need to be scripted i.e. goblins / beasts / bandits searching for victims.

3. After a set amount of 'peaceful' long rests have an encounter trigger when returning to camp.

4. The encounter starts with the players noticing the approach of hostile NPCs. The players then make a decision between fight and flight.

5. The camp is inaccessible until a choice is made.

Details:

-Players could be allotted 2 'peaceful' long rests between level ups.
(Meaning that as long as you level up every two long rests you never have to worry about having your camp discovered / inaccessible)

-Long rests could rollover if unused so that resting less at lower levels means you have more rests available at higher levels.

- If characters choose to fight, they must win in order to maintain the secrecy of the camp and have access to rest.

-If characters choose flight they nominate 1 member to draw the NPCs attention and lead them away from camp.
(This player would need to draw the hostile NPCs 'far enough' away before circling back, which coincidentally would mean they are removed as playable characters for 2 level ups before returning)

Outcome:

Delaying rests until absolutely necessary means a guaranteed recovery. Waiting too long between rests means players might be too weakened to survive another fight and have to temporarily sacrifice the presence of a party member. Considering party size is limited to 4 and there are currently at least 6 playable characters to choose from there's some wiggle room. Which is good. I think it means it's not too severe a penalty to introduce. Just enough to dissuade people from camping after every fight. It adds a sense of scarcity, strategy, and immersion that the camp currently lacks.


In the first place, its weird that camp is accessible at any time. Shouldn't camping be limited to tents? camp should be like a HUB where you can return in between quest or from portals to talk to your companions, in my humble opinion.

Last edited by Hachina; 01/01/21 07:53 PM.

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Random encounters add more problems than they solve:

* Do you give XP/Money rewards? Yes - they can be farmed, no - they are not rewarding
* You just won a tough fight and running low on resources - cool, now you die to some random wolves and have to replay X hours of the game or quit
* Are these encounters are hand-crafted as all the others? Yes - why spend time on a something that may not be played, no - they will become repetitive fast

And finally, what is even the point of resource management, if there is no difference if you take 1 in-game day to finish act 1 or n days to finish it. You are then just resource managing whether you will fail your playthrough or not. How is that fun?

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Originally Posted by Eugerome
And finally, what is even the point of resource management, if there is no difference if you take 1 in-game day to finish act 1 or n days to finish it. You are then just resource managing whether you will fail your playthrough or not. How is that fun?

I think at least a few of us would prefer it if there were a difference between finishing act 1 in one day or ten days. Long rests (which, by 5e RAW, you can't take more than once every 24 hours) mark the passage of time. Time should mean something. Currently, things in the world don't change when you aren't actively interacting with them. It feels unsatisfying.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Originally Posted by Eugerome
And finally, what is even the point of resource management, if there is no difference if you take 1 in-game day to finish act 1 or n days to finish it. You are then just resource managing whether you will fail your playthrough or not. How is that fun?

I think at least a few of us would prefer it if there were a difference between finishing act 1 in one day or ten days. Long rests (which, by 5e RAW, you can't take more than once every 24 hours) mark the passage of time. Time should mean something. Currently, things in the world don't change when you aren't actively interacting with them. It feels unsatisfying.

Sure, I get that, and I kind of wish that was the case. But at the same time, putting a timer in a video game is not super great, not to mention hard to implement.

In PnP the DM sets the timeline and can adjust it if they want. But more importantly, the players have no way of knowing of how their actions change the plot.

Whereas in a video game I can roll up a new game and find out that if I choose to help an old lady across the road then I won't have enough time to save an orphanage from burning down.

Last edited by Eugerome; 01/01/21 09:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Originally Posted by Eugerome
And finally, what is even the point of resource management, if there is no difference if you take 1 in-game day to finish act 1 or n days to finish it. You are then just resource managing whether you will fail your playthrough or not. How is that fun?

I think at least a few of us would prefer it if there were a difference between finishing act 1 in one day or ten days. Long rests (which, by 5e RAW, you can't take more than once every 24 hours) mark the passage of time. Time should mean something. Currently, things in the world don't change when you aren't actively interacting with them. It feels unsatisfying.

The real problem is this, never found silly or immersion whatever the chance to go to the camp. In the game you have two short rests and one long rest per die. I'm not some one with high attention to details, so much that I discover a lot of of stuff I missed exactly because of my lack in attention, still since the first time I clicked in the camp icon for a long rest it appeared a tab with the question "would you like to go to camp and END the day?".

Bold and underline to highlight the fact that per se the game is following the rules.

That is some complains here are based on an erroneous assumption.

What lacks is not some absurd criteria to grant some perceived immersion (that is quite a personal thing, to me what break immersion is the fact that skilled fighters and wizards and clerics have slots, I just imagine elite soldiers that at some point start saying that well they can not use their full ability because you know at max 4 times a day sorry, or bodies that remains in open air and don't have signs of rotting), what lack is a coherence between what the log rest tab says, or the fact that when you tell a companion to wait in the camp they star walking to said place, and the absence of time, a player can stay hours without going to the camp for a long rest with the sun always at the same heigth in the sky.

[I have to verify if the same happens in the Original Sin duo of games].

One of the things Daggerfall (is my obsession that game) and Baldurs Gate managed in a very good way was time either in fast travel (in Daggerfall, wich map was huge, the fast travel tab indicated the months, weeks, days, hours it would take to do the travel, and the time of arrival could be in any hour of the day, I remember how many times I had to climb the walls of some cities to get a tavern to rest, or fast travel to some little dungeon to rest until dawn, as far as I recall the same happened in Baldur's Gate), even Elder scrolls online, wich being a MMORPG has the problem of players connections from different timezones, has a flow of time. What was interesting is that Daggerfall allowed, thanks to its time flow, to play characters like vampires or characters whose flaw was to suffer damage from direct sun light)

There's also a lack of a back story, in Original Sin I you have a quest to obtain your Homestead so that when you get to have it you have earned it.

In BG3 how Tav discover the safe and secluded area happens behind the scenes thus making it less appealing.

Also the fact that the quest don't have a time limit contributes to the perception of having endless rest per day when in reality there are only two short and one long per die, but this is an issue not only of Larian in this moment I'm playing Vampyr, Ni no Kuni, Final Fantasy XV, The outer worlds, in none of them there is for the side quests, even Daggerfall let the player take all the time they wanted to finish the main one, a time limit.

I hope larian get the fact that wihout a flow of time no matter how they concot the rest issue will remain because we as player perceive that there is no real and actual flow of time and it doesn't matter that there is dark in the resting party cut scene, or that there is the already quoted message.

Again a personal example: in The Outer Worlds I have the feeling of having done all the quests in not even a day exactly because I don't have anything that allows to understand that hey time is going forward.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
Yes. When you are beat down and used up all your spells, the exact thing you need is a tough battle suddenly hitting you before you can rest. Nothing makes a game playable like assured death.

Random encounters belong in the overall world, not at camp which you don't access until you absolutely need it.

That's exactly what "ressources management" is about.

Will you fight the next goblins group in that dungeon or will you go back at camp right now because roads can also be dangerous ?

Yeah,that makes sense. Perhaps I will fight some goblins in the base, kililng them, and then come back the next day. Certainly the goblins didn't come across the dead bodies and will be all cool with the only people leaving during that period. Total immersion. I went to speak to someone who hadn't even heard from me - surely it wasn't the party.

The fights we are in now are not following the prescribed formula and are way too tough for a DnD game - you don't have random attacks at camp on top of that. If the encounters were balanced to the formula then being ambushed at camp could be doable - but it is not doable as the game is now.

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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
In the game you have two short rests and one long rest per die
This is certainly one of funniest typo i have ever seen. laugh

But good point about that ending the day ... it certainly dont feel that way. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Add an OPTIONAL challenge/difficulty to the game the puts some timing constraints in the game. Each long rest, 8 hours get deducted.

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