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Originally Posted by Niara
Veronica, asking for personal RL details, and describing the disclosure of such as 'rules' for your thread, is probably something you shouldn't do. I am not a moderator here, and it is not my place to tell you not to, but I suspect you will not garner any fans by asking people to do that. I expect you'll receive mostly resistant responses, even from people who agree with your perspective, if you press for them to give that information.

Edit: I'm tagging out the rest of this post, though I'll leave it in the spoiler as I don't believe in trying to 'unsay' things. It was late and I was exhausted, and the OP's tone rubbed me the wrong way in that moment, and I didn't vet my tone as closely as I feel I should have. I do not wish to post with the back-handed hostility that I feel this post came across with. I think I was a little bit out of line. With that caveat, I'll leave the rest of the post in a spoiler tag.


What exactly is your hypothesis here? You didn't define it; if you're going to set your tone as one of denigration (which you have done), then you need to fully define what it is you're proposing first; you're suggesting a pattern or a correlation: what pattern are you expecting to see, exactly? Say what you mean, and don't beat about the bush, if you're going to make a post like this.

You're defining the situation which you are assessing in a distinctly prejudiced manner; you're judging in advance the motive and reasoning of the effigy you're poking your lance at - that is, you're saying that commenters who express explanations and concerns about game balance and the effect on that that various mechanics have are doing so in order to tell other people how the game must be played. That's not a justified assumption by any stretch. I'd go so far as to suggest that it shows a lack of understanding of the impacts of such decisions, beyond the immediately visible effects, and a lack of concern for the experiences of others outside your direct personal desires and goals, to posit the "how I play doesn't affect you" argument (which you do appear to be making a derivative variant of) in response to comments about mechanics being implemented into the base game itself, and whether they should be or not.

I have no interest in telling people how to enjoy the game, or trying to make everyone play the game the same way.

Game balance is important, integral even, to the game's overall quality and its longevity, and it is currently badly undermined by the custom mechanics and rules that the current iteration uses, making the game more shallow and tactless; this needs to be fixed.

Those two statements are not in any way contradictory.

I have neither the free time nor the energy to get into an in depth discussion about the matter; I am sorry, I just don't. There are several detailed threads where folks discuss it, however, and within them are more than enough explanations to show that the question you're begging with your premise does not obtain.

My name is Erica, I'm in my early thirties and I work something approaching a 60 hour week on average, on a variety of tasks and projects that are predominately mentally taxing. I work that much by my own choice; I am formally unemployed. I have no average yearly income. I have a PhD in Philosophy and Philosophy of Science, and I've studied a broad range of academic topics outside of that, mostly surrounding classical and ancient history, folk lore and mythology, natural biology and botany as well as language and language evolution. I speak with my hands; I've been mute since I was nineteen. At that time certain incidents left me in a position where my doctors advised those closest to me that I would be unlikely to recover, and very unlikely to survive more than a few years of the lingering attacks and the strain and risk it placed on my body. I'm very stubborn; I'm still alive. I've long since forgiven the individuals responsible for the attack. I go rock-climbing in my free time, and enjoy spending time with my partners - I live in a three-person committed relationship; it galls me daily that I'll never likely survive to see a time when we could actually officiate it. I am a deeply personally spiritual person, but I am not religious. I'm also rational person who likes being able to understand the things around me, and explain the unknown where possible. I have a very visible scar across my neck; if I don't cover it, people react to me when they see it in public. I usually cover it. I play dungeons and dragons. I play with friends who know me well and don't mind that they need one of my partners to translate for me around the table. It means the world to me. I like to challenge myself in video games. I'm very strongly against exploiting or cheating in video games. Breaking an AI and winning that way usually feels like a fail state to me. I'm 138cm tall, and despite being over thirty now, I still get asked for ID whenever I try to buy something classy for my dad from the bottle shop for his birthday or christmas. I don't drink, myself; can't stand the taste of alchohol. My sister has spent years trying to find one I'll like, no success yet, though I try a sip of everything new she asks me to, just in case. I have family members who do not approve of my 'lifestyle'. I'm Scottish, but I've grown up almost entirely in Australia. I could be lying about some of these things, all of these things or none of these things. I don't tell lies; but you don't know that for certain. Of all of these things, my age, financial status and employment status are most certainly the least significant factors that have gone into making me the person that I am today and shaping my outlook on the world, and by proxy my views on matters like this... and I will not be alone in that particular fact.

So... what is it, exactly, that you're hoping to learn?

Well, Kudo on overcoming your trials, life certainly has been rought for you. Don't have much to say , except that I'm always impressed by people like you that go through extreme hardship and manage to recover. Hope you'll keep at it !
And happy new years to people reading the thread.


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After rereading the thread, I'll play along a bit (not age, job, income, but some details about myself)

I know pain and frustration, because I suffered from extreme social anxiety (still do, but now it's down to moderate, though with a brief reversion to extreme after my dad was murdered) due to bullying from elementary through middle school, meaning social situations are difficult, stressful, and awkward for me, and I know they shouldn't be, which is endlessly frustrating. Even so, I don't want games to be ridiculously easy and free of frustration, cheese or no. I also don't want games to be unfairly easy for one class or character and hard for another, because that's just stupid IMO (which is why I'm glad we're not using 3.5e here). I want to be challenged, but not to the point of "I've done this five times and I'm still barely any closer to figuring it out," especially if simply changing classes or characters would make it 100x easier. I don't care about cheese (and don't consider high ground advantages cheese due to seeing them in practically every game I've played that has elevation, but YMMV) as I simply ignore it (in fact, 95% of the time, the cheese solution doesn't even occur to me). I really enjoy the process of figuring things out that may otherwise seem too hard at first glance without having to resort to cheesy tactics. So yes, balance out the cheese, but figure out what actually is cheese (barrelmancy, for example) and what isn't (the circlet, high ground advantage [even if it could be nerfed some without too much issue])


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Originally Posted by Sharp
I understand what you are trying to prove here, in fact, from memory (I would have to go looking to actually find the relevant studies), you would be correct. If I am guessing correctly, your hypothesis is that younger people who make less money but have more time on their hands due to not having as many obligations (children, etc), care far more about balance than older people who have much more limited time to play. I won't indulge your fancy because I value my privacy to some extent, but I will say that for the purposes of your little experiment you should also require people to state the country they live in, because the US and the UK are not the only countries in the world and you need to adjust the income based on the cost of living depending on the country the person lives in. Someone living in Harare will have a lower cost of living than someone living in San Francisco.

Essentially, though I think that may also apply to people who perhaps have a disability making them incapable of work or have a low stress job - as those with much higher pay tend to have. But the issue is specifically with "game balance issues" that involve exploits like repeated saving - not game balance in general.

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Originally Posted by zyr1987
After rereading the thread, I'll play along a bit (not age, job, income, but some details about myself)

I know pain and frustration, because I suffered from extreme social anxiety (still do, but now it's down to moderate, though with a brief reversion to extreme after my dad was murdered) due to bullying from elementary through middle school, meaning social situations are difficult, stressful, and awkward for me, and I know they shouldn't be, which is endlessly frustrating. Even so, I don't want games to be ridiculously easy and free of frustration, cheese or no. I also don't want games to be unfairly easy for one class or character and hard for another, because that's just stupid IMO (which is why I'm glad we're not using 3.5e here). I want to be challenged, but not to the point of "I've done this five times and I'm still barely any closer to figuring it out," especially if simply changing classes or characters would make it 100x easier. I don't care about cheese (and don't consider high ground advantages cheese due to seeing them in practically every game I've played that has elevation, but YMMV) as I simply ignore it (in fact, 95% of the time, the cheese solution doesn't even occur to me). I really enjoy the process of figuring things out that may otherwise seem too hard at first glance without having to resort to cheesy tactics. So yes, balance out the cheese, but figure out what actually is cheese (barrelmancy, for example) and what isn't (the circlet, high ground advantage [even if it could be nerfed some without too much issue])

Damn. This thread is full of survivor. keep going at it,I'm sure you ll figure out how to go beyond your social fear !


About the balance :


I always prefered game with a well adjusted challenge. I think the victory is the sweetest when you had to work... just a little bit for it. Amelyssan remains one of my favourite videogame boss because of how spectacular the fight is, the variety of her move, how broken she is, along with a few hint of her power like : Summons a bunch of reaper with a flicker of the wrist, immune to timestop, cast earthquake and max level priest spell, and she is basically absurd on all levels. That made beating her all the more satisfying.

I personnally would like to be challenged by the game and feel like there are other way to overcome challenge than to imbue my giant sword with lethal poison and do froghoping + barrelmancy into the final boss. Having no easy crutch means you have to focus on the game and find really creative way to defeat opponent, using all ressources. The problem, imo, is that some ressource like poison and barrel, are so powerful compared to anything else that they act as a ''easy way out''. As soon as you are frustrated, here, take a poison sip, throw that barrel, GG.
Fighting Thanos in POE1 was frustrating. I had a max level party with max level gear, the boss still smashed me a few time, and I was getting frustrated at him. Which made winning much more meaningful. If there is no challenge, there is no glory. The challenge has to be carefully measured though, as to not repel the players;

Good example of masterfully crafted challenge are Blizzard last mission of Zerg in SC2 HotS, when Kerrigan is in her cocoon. Actually, every mission of starcraft / warcraft that are siege are masterful, because you usually win with only one or two unity left, while there are dozen, hundred of ennemies, and would the game had lasted three second more, you would have lost. There is a real feeling of tension, on the razor edge, which makes winning very rewarding. I think every game should have this quality, imo.

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Thread rules: Lol, no.

Actual topic:

I don't care if you cheat, but if the game is poorly balanced then that's in my game too. If I can quicksave pickpocket infinite gold is that intended design? What about robbing every vendor for 2k? That item gives all 20 stats, am I supposed to have it? What if it's more subtly broken? Back in BG2 I bought the Robe of Vecna right at the start of the game but when I hit epic levels it suddenly became insanely broken. I guess I should sell it? Except I pretty much got through the entire game by exploiting one thing or another so is this really the step too far? If it is then what about the Cloak of Mirroring? Carsomyr?

With a well balanced game I don't have to reign myself in, I can make whatever choices I want and still be challenged. What's more there will be a multitude of ways to play and they'll all be satisfying. If I can break a game over my knee then there's fun in that but it's short lived. Poor balance drains the depth out of a game.

The other issue with poor balancing is it runs into "Water finds a path." If you let them, players will optimise the fun right out of your game.

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If people want to cheat in a game, without it making an unbalanced game for others (And possible ruining their fun and immersion), why not use mods to do just this? I think there are already mods to make your character much stronger, or introduce items that give a big boost. It seems the optional "wanting to cheat" is exactly what mods should be used for if you want this, rather than just put it in the main game.

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Originally Posted by TheFoxWhisperer
If people want to cheat in a game, without it making an unbalanced game for others (And possible ruining their fun and immersion), why not use mods to do just this? I think there are already mods to make your character much stronger, or introduce items that give a big boost. It seems the optional "wanting to cheat" is exactly what mods should be used for if you want this, rather than just put it in the main game.
That is the best answer here. People can use mods if the want it easier.

Alpha is now at Normal. For full release include example also Easy, Hard and Nightmare difficulty example. Do not have broken things likes bugs make game easier.

For me Normal is to easy for me. I want at least Hard difficulty level to me.

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Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
Let's address this head on. In your first reply, include your age, general yearly income, and job - as my hypothesis is that this is mainly a function of that.

I'll start: 38, $75k, 40 hours a week taking claims for Social Security. I'm also working on getting a PhD in political ideology.

Now, I get the idea of the game being balanced and difficult for a vanilla playthrough at the normal difficulty level - but I've seen so damn many people claiming that if a player is allowed to do this - or that - that it breaks game balance. If this were a multiplayer game where other players doing things that are highly rewarding for them and it was at your expense - such as with a sports game where players will abuse exploits to beat you every time - it would make perfect sense to me. However, when we are all playing single player, why should it bother you if I can mug some noble to get a quick 10,000 gold or steal some magic item that gives a character all 20 stats? If I can save before doing something and grind out a good result, it might not be realistic, but how does it bother you if you don't do it? Why are you obsessed with everyone else playing the game the exact same way you are playing it?

For me, life is a daily grind and I've been playing it at nightmare difficulty for 20 years. I play games as a form of escape from that daily grind and if I'm not playing some MMORPG I am likely to cheat like crazy. It gives a level of control over my temporary reality that I am denied in my daily life - I'm more interested in exploring a game than having any extreme challenge. I don't need frustration added into my life - I've got plenty and all the health problems that come with chronic stress.

So why are people so deadset on everyone else having to experience the same difficulty you enjoy?

Whatever side you are on, post those basics so we can see if there is a pattern.

39, $115K, 40 Hours a Week, started in Customer Support, ended up in Management and Development. 15 years same company. Married, Kid, Dog. Home Owner.

Never use cheats. Never use exploits. I want a challenging game that has depth, and replay value, without easy paths that remove any meaningful challenge. If I wanted passive and easy, I would watch TV.

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Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
Originally Posted by Sharp
I understand what you are trying to prove here, in fact, from memory (I would have to go looking to actually find the relevant studies), you would be correct. If I am guessing correctly, your hypothesis is that younger people who make less money but have more time on their hands due to not having as many obligations (children, etc), care far more about balance than older people who have much more limited time to play. I won't indulge your fancy because I value my privacy to some extent, but I will say that for the purposes of your little experiment you should also require people to state the country they live in, because the US and the UK are not the only countries in the world and you need to adjust the income based on the cost of living depending on the country the person lives in. Someone living in Harare will have a lower cost of living than someone living in San Francisco.

Essentially, though I think that may also apply to people who perhaps have a disability making them incapable of work or have a low stress job - as those with much higher pay tend to have. But the issue is specifically with "game balance issues" that involve exploits like repeated saving - not game balance in general.
I will put a hole to your theory a bit that time to play is the only factor that makes people want hard challenge and in Europe there is much more vacation then in USA and in Europe people do less overtime then in USA. It all adds in Europeans have more time to play games and other free time activities.

Well some gamers are better then other that simple. If I go to say some FPS tournament I doubt I would totally suck as a newbie, but to win in some gamer competition be among best gamers in the world well doubt that I would do it.

There are some players that are really good they have played Dungeons Dragons before example Pen and Paper like me. In addition many that work with IT (I do are perhaps less emphatic (I am less) then a social worker like you). These people can be great also at say tactical strategy and like hard challenge in games.

That being said the group of players that I will play this game with both me and my brother and a friend of mine are fairly high education would rate as smart players and we have played Dungeons Dragons from before. I work with IT support and my brother is IT programmer.

We like challenge. We are not hardcore gamers there are not many games that we play or that we play many hours/week. In addition time for MMO:S has passed us they are to much of TIME SINK in the long run. My brother has children and I date women in Tinder (though sucks during COVID 19 time) and stuff like that so it is not possible to play huge amount /hours week for us.

What I am saying while your theory might have some merit there are those that are very good gamers and want Hard or even Nightmare challenge.

Please note I do not look down on anyone that want to play on example Easy or Normal challenge level. Everyone should enjoy this game at the challenge level they choose. If you think that even Easy is to hard for you then use some mod but I do not want this game to become broken with bugs that people exploit to make it easy for everyone.

I and my brother and my friend live in Europe and not USA. In USA they have like maybe 2 weeks vacation+some days of Christmas etc and I suspect in USA it is more common to do overtime then in Europe.

In my country everyone that has full time job has 5 weeks paid vacation+other special holidays/year and that is minimum by law on top of that you can sometimes even negotiate extra unpaid vacation example 2 weeks unpaid +5 weeks paid vacation=7 weeks time vacation. To that extra vacation application not paid my employers in my country might very well say yes unless you are example doctor in hospital that is really needed. In my country doing overtime is very rare my employer would most likely say no if I ask for permission to do overtime.

Before you go angry or sad in USA about your 2 weeks vacation? Salaries in USA on average is much higher then in Europe exception perhaps some countries in Europe like Norway.

Within spoiler comments wealth and money has NOTHING to do with Baldurs Gate 3 you might skip reading this:

I would not consider myself wealthy due to work income. However what makes me fairly wealthy is that I am landlord (and not newbie landlord I rent more then 1 apartment to other people) anyway though not millionaire and when I say million it means 1 million euro net wealth. 1 million euro is currently 1 217 449,00 United States Dollars roughly that is the netvalue one must have that I consider someone rich millionaire. Please note I am not rich millionaire however if I would marry someone that I consider wealthy then well... lets say it is realistic then I might become millionaire.

Within spoiler offtopic stuff like USA pension system vs Europe and some other things about becoming rich how possible that has really NOTHING to with Baldurs Gate 3 so you might skip reading it.

What makes economy compare difficult USA vs Europe is also the pension system. In USA you can have example 401k that would be rare in Europe to use such private things though some do (I do not ). When we hit pension age in Europe we get pension /month there is no fixed 401k sum. The sum is that government decide (subject to change yes) and goes on how much you have earned and payed taxes as worker.

When I said what I consider RICH is minimum 1 MILLION EURO net wealth ( 1 217 449,00 United States Dollars roughly) that was not counting some pension system at least for my part in Europe. In Europe 401k and such systems usually not used people take pension/month depending on what government pays. I do know how 401k works people in USA can lift money from that much like from a bank account we usually do not use such pensions systems in Europe.

However you can become millionaire before pension age which is I would say very difficult and challenging yes specially in Europe where salaries usually are much less then in USA. One realistic chance that I see for that if I would marry someone that as wealthy as me or more then yes I am confident I become millionaire long time before pension age perhaps even ASAP depending on how wealthy my wife would then be. Well anyway I am content and I do not must become millionaire.

Finally of course money is not everything, I have been in relationships but I do not rush to marriage. Marriage is not must some move together.

I only explained how I would realistically see how I could become millionaire ASAP and that is not the reason I would marry someone of course you need to love and like your wife.

There is one other way I could perhaps become millionaire. I start with huge risk a company and become Entrepreneur however I feel that is to much risk. I do not feel like take risk and quit my job and become Entrepreneur.

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There are some pretty silly statements in this thread about real world economics & quality of life matters. I have to resist the urge to put on my combat helmet here and run into the trenches and explain why many of these points are a bit silly.

But I'll put that all aside for now because I really just need to highlight that these matters are not relevant. The most charitable interpretation I can get out of this thread is that is a round about way of explaining that "some people have more free time than other people". I don't really see why we need to know everyone's life story to understand that. (But I extend my sympathies to anyone whose life has been a bit hard.)

Anyway.

I'll just add my perspective on the real issue of "difficulty" and/or "length". I don't like having my time wasted and I'm not interested in fake difficulty. The story of the game should be as long as it can possibly be -- but only as long as it's still interesting. I think that if the story is good from start to finish (with none of the above gameplay BS), but I don't have the time to play it from start to finish, then that's my problem, not the game's.

I imagine anyone who loves the game will take as much time as they need to to complete the game if they have to. One thing that really helps with this though is that if someone takes a break from the game for a few weeks it's important that they can quickly bring themselves back up to speed with the important plot elements they need to continue the story. I've had problems with this in some games (including Larian games) where you load up an old save game and you have no idea WTF is going on and then you check your journal and you're still confused.

Additionally, I think some people don't want the game to be hard and just want to enjoy the story. Let them have an easy mode. Why not? With a true RPG like this, I think the hardest part shouldn't really be combat. The hardest parts should be in the "role playing" -- it should really be about making interesting character/story choices.

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
There are some pretty silly statements in this thread about real world economics & quality of life matters. I have to resist the urge to put on my combat helmet here and run into the trenches and explain why many of these points are a bit silly.

But I'll put that all aside for now because I really just need to highlight that these matters are not relevant. The most charitable interpretation I can get out of this thread is that is a round about way of explaining that "some people have more free time than other people". I don't really see why we need to know everyone's life story to understand that. (But I extend my sympathies to anyone whose life has been a bit hard.)

Anyway.

I'll just add my perspective on the real issue of "difficulty" and/or "length". I don't like having my time wasted and I'm not interested in fake difficulty. The story of the game should be as long as it can possibly be -- but only as long as it's still interesting. I think that if the story is good from start to finish (with none of the above gameplay BS), but I don't have the time to play it from start to finish, then that's my problem, not the game's.

I imagine anyone who loves the game will take as much time as they need to to complete the game if they have to. One thing that really helps with this though is that if someone takes a break from the game for a few weeks it's important that they can quickly bring themselves back up to speed with the important plot elements they need to continue the story. I've had problems with this in some games (including Larian games) where you load up an old save game and you have no idea WTF is going on and then you check your journal and you're still confused.

Additionally, I think some people don't want the game to be hard and just want to enjoy the story. Let them have an easy mode. Why not? With a true RPG like this, I think the hardest part shouldn't really be combat. The hardest parts should be in the "role playing" -- it should really be about making interesting character/story choices.


Ahah, I do feel you, because I often have the same urge. However, I think there are too many people that think differently, and just don't care about other opinions / sciences/ facts anyways, so it might be wasted energy.

Anyways, I agree with your point, difficulty that reward good play are interesting, unlike meaningless grinding or bad mechanics . However, reading the fake longevity post, I think calling ''cut scene'' and story plot a device to extend longetivity is a harsh statement. For a RPG or any story driven game, mood and story are essentials and can't be subsituted by anything else. I mean, the link you posted basically banish 95% of what you can seein video game, including level grinding, narrative scene, killing monster in quest, fighting animation, randomness, boss battle. Wondering what kind of game the person who wrote that would like, at this point.

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Originally Posted by Ayvah
There are some pretty silly statements in this thread about real world economics & quality of life matters. I have to resist the urge to put on my combat helmet here and run into the trenches and explain why many of these points are a bit silly.
Really like you would know more? Bye the way why we also talked about vacation is because vacation means more free time and more time to play also games without having stress of work during same week.

List of minimum annual leave by country - Wikipedia
List of minimum annual leave by country
I belong to the most BLUE are in Europe the area that says has 23-28 vacation days/year+other vacations like Christmas holiday+Eastern holiday +many other holidays.

What has USA compared to my 23-28 days area? 0 nothing is mandatory there! They do have system in USA though that they get paid vacation like 2 weeks (or take it as salary and no vacation) and if you have worked for same company at least 20 years then maybe even 4 weeks paid vacation, but that is still less then my vacation for sure!

Perhaps you wanted to add that there are other ways to become wealthy like stocks, and index? Agree I did not list every way you can become rich to that can also be added movie star, music star or sport star I am sure there are many ways.

Perhaps you wanted to add that there are many poor people in Europe and USA? Yes I agree there are homeless in USA and in UK there are people that live below what is called poverty line. I do pity them the very poor. Do I need to prove my personal wealth to you? No I do not and I did anyway not say I was millionaire and there are really many people indeed that are more rich then me.

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Originally Posted by Terminator2020
What has USA? 0 nothing is mandatory there!
Nothing silly about that bit.

Let's just keep it simple. Bad things are bad things. Sometimes people try a bit too hard to justify bad things. Inadequate annual leave is bad thing and as a worker there is no way that you secretly benefit from that (unless you hate your family).

If I say any more than that then we are going to start getting really political so that'll have to do it.

Originally Posted by Hachina
I think calling ''cut scene'' and story plot a device to extend longetivity is a harsh statement.
I think you need to read the article a little more carefully overall. In many cases, they are not describing general mechanics; they are describing boring/timewasting implementations of those mechanics.

The article didn't say cutscenes; it said "unskippable cutscenes". Unskippable cutscenes are disrespectful of the time of the player, even in a story-based cutscene-focused game. If you don't like people skipping your cutscenes, then make better cutscenes, or present the content in a different manner. Don't punish the player for getting bored with your game.

Unskippable cutscenes are even more of an problem in examples where you have a save point, followed by a long unskippable cutscene, and then a difficult challenge that leads to a game over. It is extremely annoying. I've already seen your stupid cutscene 100 million times already, THANK YOU.

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Originally Posted by Dexai
I make around 700 000 a month (who even counts money though am I right), not counting the income from my properties, I am eternally 27, and my penis is ca 25 cm, five in diameter, and ribbed, and I spend so much time every day having sex that I rarely if ever have time to play videogames.

I also agree with @OP that everyone with a different opinion from mine should be looked down on.

Originally Posted by Anfindel
I'm a 2,000 year old comic/producer/director/actor and my current occupation is deceased.

Pleased to meet you, can you guess my name?

Well these two posts in this thread I rank as most funny answers and somehow I suspect they are not true wink. In my case I ignored OP age inquiry and exact yearly income numbers, but gave a view of true comparison in my own way and the vacation stuff was related to more time to play. As for exact numbers I do not need to share them in public or declare them to anyone except my country tax office.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 24/01/21 05:35 PM.
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I dont think the premise of the OP is wrong. If they are trying to gather data to see if there is correlation between 'types' of gamers its age, hours worked, etc, are not irrelevant.

That said, Dexai shames us all apparently, so we should just be looking for the door guys. wink

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I'll start: 38, $75k, 40 hours a week taking claims for Social Security. I'm also working on getting a PhD in political ideology.
Scribe 39, $115K, 40 Hours a Week, started in Customer Support, ended up in Management and Development. 15 years same company. Married, Kid, Dog. Home Owner.

Yes it is nice to tell when high but many in Europe earn much less then OP. I only have 1 friend in my country that earn way more then Scribe he is a multi millionaire and Entrepreneur.

In addition then I would need to understand what is it in euro currency to understand what you earn really /year.
75 000 dollar is roughly 61 601,66 euro/year before tax.
115 000 dollars is roughly 94 483,40 euro/year before tax.



Me shortly:
Terminator2020, Age unknown not even my CV have my age, 56k+ EURO (roughly 68k+ dollars however to that is included landlord income currently) 37.5 hours/week (in my country full time work is 37.5hours and not 40 hours /week but this depends on what country in Europe some have 40 hours others 37.5 hours etc. IT support. Never married right now girlfriend through Tinder, but I have no plans to marry her and she does not want kids that I know and that affects my want to marry someone negatively. Uncle to my brothers 3 kids that I sometimes meet.
Home owner (not expensive USA kind of home) and I rent 3 small apartments to other people in my country capitol are to other people looking for buy yet another apartment soon.. right now plans to buy (not so small apartment this time) and new apartment rent it to others.

I am not millionaire and I also have mortgage investment debt in bank so my networth is certainly not millionaire I mean 1 MILLION EURO so that is 1 216 582,00 United States Dollars net value! I would become millionaire if I would marry someone like me a landlord woman with my kind of income and wealth, but that is of course easier said then done. Money is not everything to me love and sexual lust is more important to me then that woman is wealthy.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 24/01/21 10:30 PM.
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lol, this thread is embarrassing. The humble/not so humblebrags is real lol

Did OP really think that a discussion that started with "tell us how much money you make?" was going to lead to a real discussion on balance options in video games?

Last edited by Boblawblah; 24/01/21 10:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
lol, this thread is embarrassing. The humble/not so humblebrags is real lol

Did OP really think that a discussion that started with "tell us how much money you make?" was going to lead to a real discussion on balance options in video games?
Well I did put more fuel to fire to brag when people see try achieve : I am not millionaire and I also have mortgage investment debt in bank so my networth is certainly not millionaire I mean 1 MILLION EURO so that is 1 216 582,00 United States Dollars net value!
I believe my post, OP post, Scribe post are true.

I do not believe what Dexai posted. He is the only one that bragged that his d... is grin.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 24/01/21 10:38 PM.
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I don't see the relevance of my info, but I can say I'm in my late 20s and work as a full time librarian. I also DM tabletop and post-by-post rping as hobbies. I have a preference for stout and porter with raspberries.

I won't speak for others, but I find balance to be important because I don't think people should be disadvantaged simply for creating a character they want to play.

This is something D&D has always been pretty bad at, greatly favoring certain classes and races. This is both baseline and specific combinations. 5e is probably the most balanced edition so far, but it still tend to favor casters and, for example, (standard) human is very underwhelming compared to other options, especially half-elf.

More than that, a certain balance in loot matters. Every weapon based character should be able to find gear fitting their playstyle and roleplaying. Arcane Trickster, for example, has 3 useful guaranteed drops around the Blighted Village (steelforged sword, warped headband of intellect and the faded drow armor. All are loot, not purchased).

A Strength based Fighter (or Ranger Knight), on the other hand, has a bit of a problem with getting armor that is even just decent. Going with 10 dex on a heavy armor character is supposed to be a perfectly reasonable choice in the system. Yet, until the Underdark, I've not found heavy armor better than ringmail (14 AC), which is just scale armor without the option to add dex to AC (14 with a normal max of 16 AC). So these characters are playing at a needless disadvantage for a significant portion of the content because of loot imbalance, despite chainmail (16 AC) being regarded as common enough to be starter gear in 5e.

Rogues have gotten a bit shafted compared to tabletop, losing Expertise and making Sneak Attack a declared mainhand attack rather than something added to either a mainhand or offhand attack. But they also got the option to flank without allies through Backstab positioning, so we can count the loss of Expertise as the only real nerf. Why does this matter? Because of Ranger and their access to Thieves' Tools. I like the update to Rangers, but the advantage of Rogues (and Bards) compared to other skill based characters is Expertise.

I'm rambling at this point, but the main point is this; games should be balanced in so far it gives every character a reasonable baseline to start with and work towards. No system will be perfectly balanced, but that is no reason to ignore the imbalances that can be addressed. All races, classes and archetypes should be desirable in some mechanical way both in and outside of combat.


Don't you just hate it when people with dumb opinions have nice avatars?
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