Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2020
M
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Feb 2020
Firstly, I’d like to start off by saying I’ve spent hundreds of hours on BG 1, BG2, DOS1, and DOS2 (some of these 200+ or more). In addition, I’d also like to say that some of these are understandably work in progress issues (cinematics, balancing issues, lack of mouthing during dialogue etc). Also, I genuinely believe that if there’s a company that could do BG3 properly it would be Larion, which is why I wrote this short story.

Game immersion and noteworthy issues

-The main character in dialogue always has the “confident amusement” look.

-The dice roles are always too high and offer nothing for ‘animal handling’

-Jump still looks too arcadey, as does the mind-connection effects.

-Thieves didn’t seem to be very useful. They worked well in dark spaces but otherwise somewhat 2 dimensional and ineffective.

-Clerics (at lower lvls at least feel ineffective as buffers). I didn’t keep shadowheart for long so I don’t know how well she scales. It felt more effective to be aggressive with her than buffing.

-It feels like cantrips and low lvls skills specifically for mages and warlocks seems to spam one skill. Maybe provide better loading screen suggestions for Disguise self, or other less obvious cantrips. Perhaps some of the cantrips can be ‘bonus actions’.

-It feels less immersive when textures and environments effects are loading directly after a the save is loaded (rather than just make the loading screen longer [with more useful in-game tips])

-The camera placement during dialogue is often awful. Often gets stuck with walls, textures etc between camera and dialogue character.

-The in-game camera in the open world frequently gets stuck behind rocks (especially when exploring fringes of the map). It also occasionally gets stuck under the map or ‘looking up’ at higher elevated characters.

-Multiple floored buildings have an absolute horrendous ‘disappearing’ floor thing. Specifically “Waukeen’s Rest inn”. The camera can’t seem to decide if you’re on the first floor, the 2nd floor, or the roof. I even had instances where all characters were on the second floor but looked as if they were walking on thin air because the camera was focusing on the first floor.

-Speaking to some companions when others want to speak as well results in other companions in the background (in cinematic) with a yellow question mark above their heads. It looks weird.

-It also seems weird that the companions not joining you will gladly wait around camp while they turn into a mind flayer? Maybe they could get supplies of information during the day?

-Huge bug in druid grove after saving Halsin where half the druids attacked me while Halsin (big peaceful boss, just chills and watches).

-Collision detection needs work. Especially when ogres throw giant rocks. It end up being in you/on you and your character is either half on or inside the rock.

-Bodies will scatter/bug out going in multiple directions.

-During combat enemies will occasionally not perform their move/turn resulting in waiting for a minute. Sometimes clicking enemy portraits with kickstart the turn faster. This doesn’t happen often but occasionally.

-Camp is always the same, generic setting. Even if you camp inside a cave it brings you to the same campsite. (Maybe Larian plans on making it a development or settlement of sorts, it just feels weird camping in a cave and it puts you in a forest.)



Additional (and easy) things to add!


- Small xp for successful d20 rolls (encourages picking dialogue with a higher success rate)

-Make ropes useful! It could prevent prone/fall dmg, drop it into a cave, sneak behind enemies.

-Stop putting books, lore behind and under things and hard to see places! It makes us have to pick it up to read rather than quick read. “Hotkey cursor read/activate” button?

-Jump at enemies! I want my heavy armored tank to jump from a building onto someone. It would be both hilarious and painful.

-More XP for non-combat avenues. It sucks to play an RPG where u want to max out your character but this can only be done by killing everything.

-Critical hits explode their enemies(BG2).

-Auto-Dip script option for torches!


Interface issues and Suggestions

-Torches in the toolbar disappear rather than having a main weapon and torch accessible in the toolbar. This makes using a torch SUPER annoying.

-Vendoring is notoriously time consuming and slow in BG1,2, DOS1,2. Click/drag to select multiple things at once would be much faster than double clicking each item or right clicking. Another suggestion is simply a hotkey sell button over whichever item the cursor hovers over.

-Items in the world should have a hotkey to consume for the cursor rather than right click, consume.

-Indicate with a solid border the usable items in inventory or skills that aren’t in the toolbar at the bottom. (It helps figure out what you might want in the toolbar for each character).

-A spell which opens indicating multiple lvls can only be closed by double clicking. Add an X in the corner too.



Difficulty Suggestions

-“Leaving Camp” should not return you to where you were in the open world. Nearest waypoint only so that you could be waylaid, get attacked, have to work to get back to where you were. It adds importance to waypoints and risk involved for pushing forward over resting.

-Maps should not display hidden areas until they are discovered (secret rooms etc).

-Permanent death

-More volatile relationships between chaotic evil and lawful good characters.

Sidenote: Coolest BG spells -Add chromatic orb, maze, time stop, stone to flesh, WISH, chain contingency, horror/fear effects, summons, demons, dimension door (just to name some of the coolest). I’m sure you recognize it but high level spells in BG2 felt thunderous and earth-shattering.

I Llove what you guys are doing, the crazy amount of love and attention to detail. AND
I'd Love it if a Dev could comment (shameless call out for affirmation)
Happy Holidays! <3

Last edited by MorphGroups; 26/12/20 05:29 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
Hey mate! I appreciate all the in-depth feedback, and I'd like to give my two cents on the matter.

>The main character in dialogue always has the “confident amusement” look
Yeah. They're tweaking the faces a little, hopefully that changes as time goes on.

>The dice roles are always too high and offer nothing for ‘animal handling’
The dice rolls were lowered in the latest update, so, yeah. Animal handling shows up quite a bit, imo, but only if you're not using Speak With Animals. If you want to use it more often, try not using that spell.

>Jump still looks too arcadey, as does the mind-connection effects.
It's a preference thing, I suppose. As a jump-lover, I don't much mind it.

>Thieves didn’t seem to be very useful. They worked well in dark spaces but otherwise somewhat 2 dimensional and ineffective.
Don't know if you've been playing with the same Rogue, friend. Thieves get two bonus actions, which is absolutely nuts. The other stuff might be a 5e thing.

>Clerics (at lower lvls at least feel ineffective as buffers). I didn’t keep shadowheart for long so I don’t know how well she scales. It felt more effective to be aggressive with her than buffing.
Again, it's probably a 5e thing. Clerics do work very well offensively, yes, but they're also stupid powerful buffers. Aid and Bless are bonkers. They're fantastic.

>It feels like cantrips and low lvls skills specifically for mages and warlocks seems to spam one skill. Maybe provide better loading screen suggestions for Disguise self, or other less obvious cantrips. Perhaps some of the cantrips can be ‘bonus actions’.
Pretty much, yeah. They're designed to be used in the same way a Fighter would swing their sword. Making them a bonus action would destroy the action economy. Normally I find that sort of thing pretentious and stupid, but I can see why people would get up in arms about that.

>It feels less immersive when textures and environments effects are loading directly after a the save is loaded (rather than just make the loading screen longer [with more useful in-game tips])
Hopefully an EA thing. The loading screens are quite long as is, though, and I, personally wouldn't be wishing for anything longer than what we have.

>The camera placement during dialogue is often awful. Often gets stuck with walls, textures etc between camera and dialogue character.
Again, hopefully an EA thing.

>The camera placement during dialogue is often awful. Often gets stuck with walls, textures etc between camera and dialogue character. The in-game camera in the open world frequently gets stuck behind rocks (especially when exploring fringes of the map). It also occasionally gets stuck under the map or ‘looking up’ at higher elevated characters.
Agreed on both of these. Hopefully the camera will improve as EA progresses.

>Speaking to some companions when others want to speak as well results in other companions in the background (in cinematic) with a yellow question mark above their heads. It looks weird.
Fair point.

>It also seems weird that the companions not joining you will gladly wait around camp while they turn into a mind flayer? Maybe they could get supplies of information during the day?
I actually really like this suggestion! It's implied they're out doing stuff during the day, and this would be an easy and cool way to show that!

>Huge bug in druid grove after saving Halsin where half the druids attacked me while Halsin (big peaceful boss, just chills and watches).

Hopefully to be fixed.

>Collision detection needs work. Especially when ogres throw giant rocks. It end up being in you/on you and your character is either half on or inside the rock.
Again, probably going to be fixed as time goes on. Not much to say on these.

>Bodies will scatter/bug out going in multiple directions.
That's a funny little glitch.

>During combat enemies will occasionally not perform their move/turn resulting in waiting for a minute. Sometimes clicking enemy portraits with kickstart the turn faster. This doesn’t happen often but occasionally.
Think this is an AI fine-tuning thing. Hopefully they go back through that and try to improve it at a later point.

>Camp is always the same, generic setting. Even if you camp inside a cave it brings you to the same campsite. (Maybe Larian plans on making it a development or settlement of sorts, it just feels weird camping in a cave and it puts you in a forest.)
God, I hope so too. Even if we got a new one just for the Underdark, I would appreciate it very much.

>Make ropes useful! It could prevent prone/fall dmg, drop it into a cave, sneak behind enemies.
My guess is that rope will be used in the (currently unimplimented) crafting system.

>Jump at enemies! I want my heavy armored tank to jump from a building onto someone. It would be both hilarious and painful.
I think Tasha's has rules for this now. It'd be funny, but there would be some people who would get supper pissy about it.

>More XP for non-combat avenues. It sucks to play an RPG where u want to max out your character but this can only be done by killing everything.
S'pose that the logic on that one is that the challenge was decreased, and so the reward is lesser. Don't agree, but that's what I think went on in their heads.

>Critical hits explode their enemies.
Would be funny. Unsure of how to feel about this one, unlikely. A little flash is nice but like *shrug*

>Auto-Dip script option for torches!
Ooh this is a really good one. Good suggestion!

>Add chromatic orb, maze, time stop, stone to flesh, WISH, chain contingency, horror/fear effects, summons, demons, dimension door (just to name some of the coolest). I’m sure you recognize it but high level spells in BG2 felt
Whoa, cool down cowboy! We only have access to 2nd level spells MAX right now, and you're bustin' out the Level nines? We probably won't get those in the full game, but Dimension Door and Chromatic Orb will probably be added later in EA.

>Torches in the toolbar disappear rather than having a main weapon and torch accessible in the toolbar. This makes using a torch SUPER annoying.
Good thinking. I really appreciate your torch suggestions.

>Vendoring is notoriously time consuming and slow in BG1,2, DOS1,2. Click/drag to select multiple things at once would be much faster than double clicking each item or right clicking. Another suggestion is simply a hotkey sell button over whichever item the cursor hovers over.
Again, good thought. Hope this one gets implemented.

>Items in the world should have a hotkey to consume for the cursor rather than right click, consume. Indicate with a solid border the usable items in inventory or skills that aren’t in the toolbar at the bottom. (It helps figure out what you might want in the toolbar for each character). A spell which opens indicating multiple lvls can only be closed by double clicking. Add an X in the corner too.
Decided to group these togeether because I had the same thing to say 'bout all of them. Good idea.

>“Leaving Camp” should not return you to where you were in the open world. Nearest waypoint only so that you could be waylaid, get attacked, have to work to get back to where you were. It adds importance to waypoints and risk involved for pushing forward over resting.
Interesting idea that I like better than most. I like rests as-is, but I don't mind this as a suggestion.

>Maps should not display hidden areas until they are discovered (secret rooms etc).
A decent suggestion.

>Permanent death
While I wouldn't be opposed to a decrease in the amount of Revivify scrolls lying around, that ain't happening. Being able to come back to life has been in DnD and the Baldur's Gate series for ages, and just flat-out removing it is not something I would love.

>More volatile relationships between chaotic evil and lawful good characters.
Perhaps we get these when the LG characters show up. So far we're more or less forgiving/I-can't-judge good vs. some evils and a neutral. Part of the reason things are so subdued is because general consensus for what's going on is that the party must work together or die.

Have a good one!


I honestly hope you have a most marvelous day!
Joined: Feb 2020
M
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Feb 2020
Thanks for the feedback, nothing worse than talking down an empty well wink


Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Hey mate! I appreciate all the in-depth feedback, and I'd like to give my two cents on the matter.

> The main character in dialogue always has the “confident amusement” look
>> Yeah. They're tweaking the faces a little, hopefully that changes as time goes on.
>>> I'll assume that it's something they plan on spending more time improving until it's release..

> The dice roles are always too high and offer nothing for ‘animal handling’
>> The dice rolls were lowered in the latest update, so, yeah. Animal handling shows up quite a bit, imo, but only if you're not using Speak With Animals. If you want to use it more often, try not using that spell.
>>> I also felt like successful animal handling rolls rarely offered anything useful, or interesting.

> Jump still looks too arcadey, as does the mind-connection effects.
>> It's a preference thing, I suppose. As a jump-lover, I don't much mind it.
>>> It's the weird waves that happen before and after the jump that ruins it for me.

> Thieves didn’t seem to be very useful. They worked well in dark spaces but otherwise somewhat 2 dimensional and ineffective.
>> Don't know if you've been playing with the same Rogue, friend. Thieves get two bonus actions, which is absolutely nuts. The other stuff might be a 5e thing.
>>> Once I tweaked the build of the rogue a bit I understand how good they can be. It would be cool if bushes and other 'soft' objects help with sneak checks in or out of combat.

> Clerics (at lower lvls at least feel ineffective as buffers). I didn’t keep shadowheart for long so I don’t know how well she scales. It felt more effective to be aggressive with her than buffing.
>> Again, it's probably a 5e thing. Clerics do work very well offensively, yes, but they're also stupid powerful buffers. Aid and Bless are bonkers. They're fantastic.
>>> I didn't keep the cleric until lvl 4 so I'll have to try it again.

> It feels like cantrips and low lvls skills specifically for mages and warlocks seems to spam one skill. Maybe provide better loading screen suggestions for Disguise self, or other less obvious cantrips. Perhaps some of the cantrips can be ‘bonus actions’.
>> Pretty much, yeah. They're designed to be used in the same way a Fighter would swing their sword. Making them a bonus action would destroy the action economy. Normally I find that sort of thing pretentious and stupid, but I can see why people would get up in arms about that.
>>> I understand that cantrips are mage equivalents of swinging a sword but it would make the combat so much more interesting to have cantrips which add diversity and more depth to the combat.

> It feels less immersive when textures and environments effects are loading directly after a the save is loaded (rather than just make the loading screen longer [with more useful in-game tips])
>> Hopefully an EA thing. The loading screens are quite long as is, though, and I, personally wouldn't be wishing for anything longer than what we have.
>>> I totally disagree. The game loads for me in a minute or two but having the textures load after entering the game kills immersion. The extra 15-20 seconds is irrelevant at that point but maybe that's a preference thing.

> The camera placement during dialogue is often awful. Often gets stuck with walls, textures etc between camera and dialogue character.
>> Again, hopefully an EA thing.

> The camera placement during dialogue is often awful. Often gets stuck with walls, textures etc between camera and dialogue character. The in-game camera in the open world frequently gets stuck behind rocks (especially when exploring fringes of the map). It also occasionally gets stuck under the map or ‘looking up’ at higher elevated characters.
>> Agreed on both of these. Hopefully the camera will improve as EA progresses.


> Speaking to some companions when others want to speak as well results in other companions in the background (in cinematic) with a yellow question mark above their heads. It looks weird.
>> Fair point.

> It also seems weird that the companions not joining you will gladly wait around camp while they turn into a mind flayer? Maybe they could get supplies of information during the day?
>> I actually really like this suggestion! It's implied they're out doing stuff during the day, and this would be an easy and cool way to show that!

> Huge bug in druid grove after saving Halsin where half the druids attacked me while Halsin (big peaceful boss, just chills and watches).
>> Hopefully to be fixed.

>Collision detection needs work. Especially when ogres throw giant rocks. It end up being in you/on you and your character is either half on or inside the rock.
>>Again, probably going to be fixed as time goes on. Not much to say on these.

> Bodies will scatter/bug out going in multiple directions.
>> That's a funny little glitch.
>>> Typically only happens when an enemy dies during combat

> During combat enemies will occasionally not perform their move/turn resulting in waiting for a minute. Sometimes clicking enemy portraits with kickstart the turn faster. This doesn’t happen often but occasionally.
>> Think this is an AI fine-tuning thing. Hopefully they go back through that and try to improve it at a later point.
>>> It also seems to happen more often if there are more enemies (Goblin boss temple comes to mind). I'm sure they're working on it.

> Camp is always the same, generic setting. Even if you camp inside a cave it brings you to the same campsite. (Maybe Larian plans on making it a development or settlement of sorts, it just feels weird camping in a cave and it puts you in a forest.)
>> God, I hope so too. Even if we got a new one just for the Underdark, I would appreciate it very much.
>>> Let's hope it's an EA thing because this really breaks immersion for me.

> Make ropes useful! It could prevent prone/fall dmg, drop it into a cave, sneak behind enemies.
>> My guess is that rope will be used in the (currently unimplimented) crafting system.
>>> I didn't even realize they were doing crafting. Very cool!

> Jump at enemies! I want my heavy armored tank to jump from a building onto someone. It would be both hilarious and painful.
>> I think Tasha's has rules for this now. It'd be funny, but there would be some people who would get supper pissy about it.
>>> I like these sort of rules and options because it feels very D&D. Also, it could also go very badly or turn an entire fight around. These kind of pull something out of your *** tactics makes the game so much more memorable.

> More XP for non-combat avenues. It sucks to play an RPG where u want to max out your character but this can only be done by killing everything.
>> S'pose that the logic on that one is that the challenge was decreased, and so the reward is lesser. Don't agree, but that's what I think went on in their heads.
>>> The problem with this is that many RPG players will feel cheated from finding clever workarounds or risky dialogue options and as a result they are lower lvl and the game is harder because of it? Personally, I don't want to kill everything in the world to max my character.

> Critical hits explode their enemies.
>> Would be funny. Unsure of how to feel about this one, unlikely. A little flash is nice but like *shrug*
>>> I mentioned this because in BG2 critical hits felt amazingly powerful. They shook the screen and convinced the player through sword or spell.

> Auto-Dip script option for torches!
>> Ooh this is a really good one. Good suggestion!
>>> Anything torch in BG3 right now is a pain not worth the payout...

> Add chromatic orb, maze, time stop, stone to flesh, WISH, chain contingency, horror/fear effects, summons, demons, dimension door (just to name some of the coolest). I’m sure you recognize it but high level spells in BG2 felt
>> Whoa, cool down cowboy! We only have access to 2nd level spells MAX right now, and you're bustin' out the Level nines? We probably won't get those in the full game, but Dimension Door and Chromatic Orb will probably be added later in EA.
>>> This was more of a plead for the devs to add the coolest spells of BG2 into the game. Pit Fiends and Genies make for some good entertainment.

>Torches in the toolbar disappear rather than having a main weapon and torch accessible in the toolbar. This makes using a torch SUPER annoying.
>> Good thinking. I really appreciate your torch suggestions.

> Vendoring is notoriously time consuming and slow in BG1,2, DOS1,2. Click/drag to select multiple things at once would be much faster than double clicking each item or right clicking. Another suggestion is simply a hotkey sell button over whichever item the cursor hovers over.
>> Again, good thought. Hope this one gets implemented.
>>> I found much of DOS and DOS2, like BG1 and BG2, to have very clunky and slow interface choices. Particularly with move items between characters, selling, hotkeying etc.

> Items in the world should have a hotkey to consume for the cursor rather than right click, consume. Indicate with a solid border the usable items in inventory or skills that aren’t in the toolbar at the bottom. (It helps figure out what you might want in the toolbar for each character). A spell which opens indicating multiple lvls can only be closed by double clicking. Add an X in the corner too.
>> Decided to group these together because I had the same thing to say 'bout all of them. Good idea.
>>> Consume, read, use on the spot hotkeys are so much better and faster than right clicking tiny world objects.

> “Leaving Camp” should not return you to where you were in the open world. Nearest waypoint only so that you could be waylaid, get attacked, have to work to get back to where you were. It adds importance to waypoints and risk involved for pushing forward over resting.
>> Interesting idea that I like better than most. I like rests as-is, but I don't mind this as a suggestion.
>>> Again it creates the atmosphere of travel and adventure. It also increases the importance of having to chose when to turn around vs. set up camp.

>Maps should not display hidden areas until they are discovered (secret rooms etc).
>> A decent suggestion.
>>> I hope they add many custom difficulty options like this. It simply diversifies the game.

> Permanent death
>> While I wouldn't be opposed to a decrease in the amount of Revivify scrolls lying around, that ain't happening. Being able to come back to life has been in DnD and the Baldur's Gate series for ages, and just flat-out removing it is not something I would love.
>>> This suggestion was through my experiences with BG2 on high difficulty and watching a character get 'flesh to stone' and annihilated along with whatever items were in their inventory. Absolutely gut-wrenching
>More volatile relationships between chaotic evil and lawful good characters.
Perhaps we get these when the LG characters show up. So far we're more or less forgiving/I-can't-judge good vs. some evils and a neutral. Part of the reason things are so subdued is because general consensus for what's going on is that the party must work together or die.

Have a good one!

Thanks again for the input! Cheers.


Moderated by  Dom_Larian, Freddo, vometia 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5