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a mistake #748966 03/01/21 12:45 PM
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Honestly, they've all grown on me, but I do have some questions regarding the narrative and game mechanic that make me raise an eyebrow or two. I think the biggest problem though is that while it seems that the game is hinting that each tadpoled character has been hand-selected to be a host, there's very little in the writing that allows a player to latch onto and then speculate about the *how* of it, for each companion. So instead of relying on characters' individual charisma or likability, having that aspect a bit more up-front would allow the player to be at least intellectually engaged with each companion's puzzle, trying to make sense of how they might fit into the bigger picture.

So in no particular order:

1. Gale. Others have already mentioned this, but the magic item consumption mechanic is a bit tedious to put it mildly. Afaik, he can consume potential story items,
like that beholder in the jar one can get from the smugglers or the Necromancy of Thay tome, even though that one seems bugged and you can give him the book infinitely
and that to me feels like a massive issue. It might be that this will have repercussions for future possibilities of those related quests, but there's no sign that this is the case. Minimally, if he's going to need to consume magical items, it would help if there was some kind of... idk narrative impact, warning, something. Or then we have to have a much better sense of (or relationship to) the magical artifact being consumed. But primarily, the way it's handled right now, is too much of a deterrent: I like the character, but why would one want to keep him in the party to begin with, he's a massive liability and his weave vampirism is a pain. If Larian wants to go with the vampirism/predation theme (we already have a regular blood vampire, why not have a weave vampire too, right?) then something more subtle, and less ham-fisted would be lovely. So to counterbalance that, if that mechanic could be tied, even through hints, to why he was tadpoled with the Extra Special Modified Snowflake Tadpole would be helpful.

2. Astarion. I don't mind him, if I squint, but narratively, I think it would be hugely helpful to have more narrative justification for why a, say, good or neutral or even lawful evil protag would risk keeping a vampire spawn around aside from him being pretty and uwu poor tortured baby. I think one way to do it is to start hinting early on (maybe it's already being hinted at, but I think it could be louder) that vampires might have a stake (har har) in the overall cosmological conflict, and that he might be useful as an insider, at some point. In other words, making it clear that he fits into the broader narrative in SOME way. One thing I dislike about Astarion, and he shares this with Gale, is that as written, it seems that they entirely rely on the player liking them personally, vs a player who is less interested in their extra specialness, but would be interested in asking how they fit in the bigger puzzle.

3.I've no problem with Lae'zel, she makes sense.

4. Shadowheart is clearly some kind of key figure, and in her case I can see the writing on the wall with that "broader conflict" question. She fits with the bigger story, so I don't really have a problem there.

5. Wyll. So I haven't gotten super far into Wyll's story but it seems to me that he also has a more clear tie-in with the overall story arc. However, again, maybe this is intentional, but his story seems full of massive inconsistencies, starting with the fact that he's in the grove when you show up, but claims he was on the ship -- it might be revealed that he's lying and a totally unreliable narrator, in which case, that's fine -- but it does make me feel a bit suspicious of him. Again, this might be part of a puzzle, but stuff with Wyll feels like it doesn't "add up" -- but maybe I just need to get more of his dialogue, idk.

Last edited by Gibberling; 03/01/21 12:48 PM.
a mistake #748977 03/01/21 01:49 PM
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Personaly i have a bit problem with Shadowhearth ...
And its not about her anoying personality, or her constant disaprovement with everything ...

Its the fact that she is the only companion we can talk with about our "so far adventure". :-/
Also the only companion with wich we can repeat the same talk over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. -_-
It just seem odd.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
RagnarokCzD #748985 03/01/21 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Also the only companion with wich we can repeat the same talk over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. -_-
It just seem odd.

Agree 100%. This really drives me insane. Why would I keep asking the same questions over and over again? It's what made me give up talking to her in my early playthroughs. Not her scowls or her constant disapproval of everything I did, just the fact that the dialog options were always the same and I felt like my character had short time memory loss.

Last edited by Kajsentlyha; 03/01/21 03:03 PM.
RagnarokCzD #749005 03/01/21 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Personaly i have a bit problem with Shadowhearth ...
And its not about her anoying personality, or her constant disaprovement with everything ...

Its the fact that she is the only companion we can talk with about our "so far adventure". :-/
Also the only companion with wich we can repeat the same talk over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. -_-
It just seem odd.

You can also ask Astarion the same question about his past. But in Shadow's case, I like her questions, and maybe as the adventure progresses or the relationship grows, her answers will change. I don't like that others don't have these questions.

"What will you do when we solve our problem?"

I'd like to ask others that. I know Astarion can ask you this himself, but this cutscene is very easy to miss, and he asks it at an average level of approval, which is quite strange.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Nyloth #749016 03/01/21 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyloth
You can also ask Astarion the same question about his past.

Yes, but it's one question not all of them and in my opinion even that one should go.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
But in Shadow's case, I like her questions, and maybe as the adventure progresses or the relationship grows, her answers will change. I don't like that others don't have these questions.

There are questions that it makes sense to ask more than once, like "What is your priority right now? or "What do you think we should do next?" and hopefully the answer will change depending on where you are in the story, but asking the same batch of questions over and over again is a poor dialog choice imho. It's just not the right way to do it. As the relationship progresses, I don't want new answers to old questions, I want new dialog options.
In one of the my first playthroughs at one point when talking to SH I had half of the screen full of questions. Under normal circumstances that would be awesome, too bad I was looking at a list of things I had already asked. I honestly thought it was a bug. I'm just not going to keep asking the same questions hoping at one point the answer will change. It's immersion breaking for me. Of course now that I know how to unlock her conversations, I wait until she tells me who she worships and the approval is high enough before I start speaking to her at all.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
I know Astarion can ask you this himself, but this cutscene is very easy to miss, and he asks it at an average level of approval, which is quite strange.

That cutscene should definitely change trigger, bug less and be tied to a certain approval rating. As it is, it feels really out of place because it triggers way too early. It would make much more sense if it triggered after defeating the Gyth patrol. Actually, it would make even more sense if it wasn't tied to Lae'zel's quest at all.

Last edited by Kajsentlyha; 03/01/21 05:08 PM.
Nyloth #749078 03/01/21 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyloth
I don't like that others don't have these questions.
Exactly my point!

Its not just what will you do after ...
But what do you think of me, tell me something about you, what do you think of our adventure, how do you see situation in groove, what healer you think we should ask for help, what options we have, what kind of magic is that (Seriously? Her hand is glowing ... you have F*****G VAMPIRE IN YOUR GROUP TAV OPEN YOUR EYES!) ...
NONE of those can we ask anyone else but Shadowhearth ...

I get it that she is suppose to be somehow important probably, so how about at least mask it a little with alowing us to just lightly conversate with everyone, just as with her? :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
RagnarokCzD #749203 04/01/21 12:53 PM
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%100

Yes! I can maybe believe that Astarion not asking too many questions is just a feature of his vampire spawn narcissism, but right now most of the convos with the companions are very "me me me" on their part.

Gibberling #749274 04/01/21 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Gibberling
%100

Yes! I can maybe believe that Astarion not asking too many questions is just a feature of his vampire spawn narcissism, but right now most of the convos with the companions are very "me me me" on their part.

Well its the worst set of companions ever in a rpg soi dont find it very strange for them to be like this since they are all super special. Tav is just a random the rest are more rare and special then the bhaal spawn from the first games.

Amazingly how 5 so super special ppl ended up the same ever more rare and special att the same time.

So lucky that everyone survived hell, dragons, demons, crashing, falling and mindflayers.

Game us good but main plot and companions are stupid as a snowman on hawaii


I... live! Flesh and blood and bone! I am alive! Ha-ha! I swore I would scratch and crawl my way back into the world of the living... and I have done it!
RagnarokCzD #749369 05/01/21 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Personaly i have a bit problem with Shadowhearth ...
And its not about her anoying personality, or her constant disaprovement with everything ...

Its the fact that she is the only companion we can talk with about our "so far adventure". :-/
Also the only companion with wich we can repeat the same talk over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. -_-
It just seem odd.


IMO Lae disapproves more than SH. Even though Lae isn't in my party and is back at camp she still disapproves about things. As for Astaron if it weren't for the fact that he's the only rogue in the party I'd have killed him when he first attacked me at the crash site. As for Gale he's at the camp site as well as he dies to much for my liking so I replaced him with Wyll.

a mistake #749389 05/01/21 10:23 AM
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I see littertaly no tie between mine post and your reaction, sory. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
a mistake #750156 09/01/21 01:47 AM
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Larian has already succeed in pre-sales, so they have the budget to deliver a clean bug free game.

After they have all the features in then , they can look at adding in characters. They have some well conceived evil characters ,but would be wise to add in some engaging good characters.

If they want inspiration, then they should go play Outer Worlds. I purchased it of the Winter Steam sale and was pleasantly blown away. Obsidian is the new Bio-ware, although to be fair they did bang it out of the park with KOTOR The Sith Lords as well. That game has the best character depth of any game I have played, possibly ever.

For the good characters there is Parvati, Felix, and Nyoka (soon as she sobers up).

Parvati and Nyoka were my A-team, and they would add significant dialog throughout the entire game...just a blast, like working with Zoe and Kaylee from the Firefly.

But here is the thing... the NPCs in this game are better conceived than some of the main characters in BG3. A new bar in story-boarding has been set.

OH...no romance options at all, just pleasant enjoyable company. If you insist, then please give us someone like Parvati (but who is not already romantically involved).


Bottom line is: Larian has a great vision for evil characters, but not for good ones.

Solution: they need too add someone to the team who has the vision to design a story arc for engaging and enjoyable decent folk.

You can't get blood out of a turnip. The crew that thinks sucking on green goblin toes is cool, just aren't going to cut it for you.


P.S. "It's not the best choice...it's Spacer's Choice" ...sorry their damn cheese leaves a good after taste!

Last edited by Van'tal; 09/01/21 01:50 AM.
Van'tal #750159 09/01/21 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Van'tal
Larian has already succeed in pre-sales, so they have the budget to deliver a clean bug free game.

After they have all the features in then , they can look at adding in characters. They have some well conceived evil characters ,but would be wise to add in some engaging good characters.

If they want inspiration, then they should go play Outer Worlds. I purchased it of the Winter Steam sale and was pleasantly blown away. Obsidian is the new Bio-ware, although to be fair they did bang it out of the park with KOTOR The Sith Lords as well. That game has the best character depth of any game I have played, possibly ever.

For the good characters there is Parvati, Felix, and Nyoka (soon as she sobers up).

Parvati and Nyoka were my A-team, and they would add significant dialog throughout the entire game...just a blast, like working with Zoe and Kaylee from the Firefly.

But here is the thing... the NPCs in this game are better conceived than some of the main characters in BG3. A new bar in story-boarding has been set.

OH...no romance options at all, just pleasant enjoyable company. If you insist, then please give us someone like Parvati (but who is not already romantically involved).


Bottom line is: Larian has a great vision for evil characters, but not for good ones.

Solution: they need too add someone to the team who has the vision to design a story arc for engaging and enjoyable decent folk.

You can't get blood out of a turnip. The crew that thinks sucking on green goblin toes is cool, just aren't going to cut it for you.


P.S. "It's not the best choice...it's Spacer's Choice" ...sorry their damn cheese leaves a good after taste!
Good companions? Who do you actually referring to? They already said that in early access, they want to give you evil or unpopular characters since they are likely not gonna get used very much compared to good companions in the full game. Gale is good but he has his tick with the artifacts, Shadowheart's big reveal could turn people off, and things like that. I played through Outer Worlds, and it feels okay. I don't see anything that's really revolution about these characters, but I would prefer for them not to be influenced by how to write like when you name certain archetypes and instead would prefer for them to the overall big idea in these games.

a mistake #750167 09/01/21 02:59 AM
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"Good companions, what are you actually referring to?"


In the very specific example I gave, we would have to have a common frame of reference, so perhaps I can expound.

"Good" in the strict sense, are people of conscience, unselfish, ect, ect.


Now if you add the second criteria of actually being characters that you enjoy being around, the field narrows quite quickly.

As I said, they really need to focus on a bug-free game first with all the deliverables.


When it comes to companions, as far as I am concerned, they have failed to engage me...like at all.

If they can't do better, than they should really not sweat it, because they are wasting their time, I just want to make my own custom party from the start like Icewind Dale.


My point was, that Outer Worlds got it soooo right with probably way less budget. If Larian wants an engaging character for their story, they need to look beyond their current team.

If they don't care, than get the rest right.

Last edited by Van'tal; 09/01/21 03:05 AM.
a mistake #750174 09/01/21 03:30 AM
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Like I said before, we're intentionally being introduced to a neutral and evil team first, and we get good characters later on based on the perception that these characters will be played less in the full game. There is an upcoming character that is pure good from the previous game that is pretty much even stereotypical. When you say that characters you enjoy being around, it goes into subjective. There are characters I find boring but people really like and vice versa. It's not something they could do to please everyone on that front. You can't say they fail and waste their time because they failed to please you, bringing up a game you enjoy didn't really add much to the conversation as to why they should change it or what they could change. Even different people who watch or play a certain video games will have a different take on the companions. If you want to make a suggestion, it could start by what they could change like the companions being too disagreeable (Which is certainly a thing because we get the evil and neutral ones first), companions being too selfish (refer to earlier points), or saying they should engage more with the quests, or something of that nature. Just naming some characters you like doesn't give them anything to work with because it's either subjective or too broad to exactly know what you're referring to.

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