Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General What is weave in 5e?

Gale constantly refers to the weave as if it is in fact magic, he also says that he absorbs the weave from the artifacts, a very strange statement.

But as far as I know weave is just a magical interface that Mystra built for people to be able to use magic more or less safely as raw magic with few exceptions is just too much for anyone other than Gods to handle. But then the way Gale describes weave doesn't make any sense.

Maybe I don't know about some lore retcons or adjustments to the weave in 5e?

The weave is the fabric of magic which is woven into a pattern surrounding ferun. When you use arcane magic (wizards, sorcerers, arcane tricksters, eldrige knigths) you are accessing and pulling on the threads of the weave to shape the magic and make the "weave" do what you want to do. I don't know if clerical magic uses it or not.

The weave was tended to by Mystra, the Goddess of Magic. She was killed twice, first by Helm when she tried to leave Ferun, then her mantle passed to Midnight who was one of her chosen. She was then murdered by Cyric (and remains dead). When she was murdered the weave partially unraveled during the spell plague and magic became uncontrollable for a period. It was repaired by Elminster and other chosen of Mystra but it is not the same as it was.

As far as I know any magic that doesn't function in an anti-magic field uses the weave, this is one of the reasons deity magic still works. But you are saying that in 5e weave is not a medium but infact magic itself:


What do the Gods use then? Or are they all subservient to Mystra since without the weave they would have no power?

I don't know the answers to all that. Also there is a shadow weave, that shadow magic uses instead of the regular weave.

Other Gods, particularly Bane, Cyric and Talos were jealous of Mystra because of the power she wielded as god of magic, but they were not subservient to her. Also just because she tends the weave does not necessaroily mean they couldn't use it. Let's remember too it is past tense because she is dead now so the weave is I guess drifting about on its own.

Ok, as far as I know the weave was infact created by the Goddess of magic and Shadow weave is another analogue, but both are interfaces through which mortals can use Magic, since like I meantioned using magic without the weave is very dangerous for mortals. When the Goddess of magic created the weave there were rules put in place, spell slots is one of those rules for example.

I would prefer an answer from someone who knows for sure, but I will accept speculation that also makes sense, so long as it is a good explanation. So if you are saying that Weave is in infact magic and not an interface to use magic safely, how would a God other than Mystra use magic without her blessing if she has direct control over weave?

I just don't read 5e materials, don't buy books, so I gather information through video games and some bits and pieces online.

I think gods don't *have* to abide by the Weave. Or maybe they only have to abide by it if they happen to be on the material plane or something. But I do think they pretty much have to resort to the Weave when they channel magic to mortals. For hazy reasons. Possibly something enforced by AO, the Overgod (many rules the deities have to follow are statutes by that dude). Which is pretty much a rationale that is very... Unsatisfactory. From a narrative perspective. Basically the writers saying "because".

I don't think any rulebooks spell it out in much exacting detail as you are seeking and mystra was dead before the first 5e rulebook was written. Aside from being goddess of magic, she was also the lady of mysteries .... which could explain why the answers you seek are shrouded. Finally the weave is specific to the forgotten realms, while the 5e rulebooks encompass many wolds so forgotten realms lore would not necessarily apply in the rulebooks.

Mystra tended the weave but she did not create it. It would have been created before she became goddess of magic, perhaps by Mystryl (her predecessor) or perhaps before Mystryl even.

The concept of slots is new to 5e so it is not correct to say this mechanic was implemented by Mystra as it did not exist while she was still alive. She did control aspects of the rules of magic but, not all of it and they changed after she with magic becoming less rigid and more chaotic due to the changes in the weave.

Here is what I know: The weave was "frayed" (that term actually being used in novels) when Mystra died the second time and that fundamentally changed the way magic is used. This brought about sorcerers. Sorcerers access magic different than wizards in that they useg an inate feel and instinct for magic that was only possible after the weave frayed. Wizards use discipline and methodical study. It is possible slots are a fallout of that, although a delayed one since it was not present initially. The death of Mystra affected wizards the most and initially their spells were completely uncontrollable, over time they learned to master the frayed weave. Over time the weave itself also became more stable than it was immediately following Mystra's death, due to Elminster and others anchoring it to ancient Mythals. Clerics were also affected by the weave tearing but not as much as wizards were.

There were sorcerers in BG2 and they were a core class in 3E. I do not know anything about 4E, but it's wrong to say sorcerers are new.

I do not know DnD 1E and 4E, but there are spell slots in 2,3 and 5E.

Hey, just a heads-up: Mystra is 100% NOT dead. She came back in 1487 DR at the end of the Second Sundering. You also forgot her original death as Mystryl when the Netherese Empire fell. How the hell would she be able to hook up with Gale if she was dead? Why would playing one of her clerics be an option in the game? Auburn2, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Sorcerers were implemented in 3E which was after Mystra died. They are in BG2 which happens right before Mystra dies the second time, but that is a deviation from the rules. There was not a sorcerer class in 2E (at least not in the original 2E rule set)

There were not spell slots in the older editions, there were just spells. Casters got a certain number of spells of a given level but could only cast spells of that level and spells scaled on caster level not on spell slot. For example a 3rd level wizard got 2 first and 1 second level spell in 2e/3e. They could cast 3 magic missile spells (assuming they were memorized) and would get an extra missile in each by being a 3rd level wizard. However they could not use their 2nd level spell to cast magic missile. They could not upcast using a slot, upcasting was based on caster level. A 20th-level wizard using magic missile would fire 10 missiles but would still cast it as a 1st level spell.

5e allows you to cast any spell prepared (or known) using a "slot" of equal or higher level. That mechanic did not exist in 1E, 2E or 3E. My 3rd level 5e wizard has 4 1st and 2 2nd level slots. He can use all 6 of them to cast magic missile. When he uses a 2nd level slot he upcasts it getting an extra missile, but when he uses a 1st level slot he does the same damage and has the same number of missiles as a 1st level wizard. Same with a 20th level wizard even. The 20th level wizard has 4 first level spell slots and his magic missile using one of these is the same as a first level wizard's magic missile.

The line between what's a tweak and what's a more drastic change is in everyone's eye.

Spell slots in 2E were pre-allocated. Say, my Mage knows 10 spells of level 1, has 3 spell slots, and memorises Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Sleep. I have memorised Magic Missile and Sleep. Today, I can cast only 2 Magic Missile, and only 1 Sleep.

Spell slots in 5E are more flexible. Say, my Mage knows 10 spells of level 1, has 3 spell slots, and memorises Magic Missile, Colour Spray, Grease and Sleep. I have these 4 spells memorised. Today, I can cast 3 Magic Missiles, or 2 Sleep + 1 Grease, or any other combination. (It's closer to how Sorcerers cast spells.)

In my view, that's a tweak on the same mechanism.


In BG1-2/2E (mostly), in the Mage Spellbook, the spell slots were on the left, the spells known on the right. I could fill an empty spell slot with a spell known by clicking on the known spell. Or delete the content of a spell slot by clicking on the spell slot. To each their own, but that feels very much like a slot to me, in which I plug-unplug spells.

In BG3/5E, the spell slots are a resource you spend when casting a spell. To each their own, but they feel closer to the standard Magic/Mana Points to me, only more cumbersome to use. (Instead of spells costing variable amounts of MP, your Magic Bar is split in MP blocks that have various sizes and can't be split. A spell can only be cast using 1 block, i.e. spell slot. A level 2 spell slot is a 2MP block, which you cannot use as twice 1MP. Of course, the 2E spell slots can also be called Magic Points, they are just even more restrictive in their use. )

In my view, naming the resource "spell slot" made more sense in 2E/BG1-2 than it does in 5E/BG3.


So, to me, spells slots have been there since the beginning.

I also don't know what the weave is like in 5th.

I do know that in both 2nd & 3rd that the weave is both the interface and Mystra herself. In the primordial battle, when Shar was about to kill Selune, Selune made one last ditch effort to repel her sister. Selune transformed her body into a blast of raw holy radiance that tore through Shar. The chaotic, luminous substance that passed through Shar's body took portions of Shar's darkness with it and that god-stuff formed the goddess Mystryl. Mystryl joined with Selune to push Shar back. That pattern of light and dark, visible as the stars in the sky, was the weave and Mystryl herself.

After Karsus killed Mystryl, the newly formed Mystra decided that the weave was too open and too chaotic and so she began to untangle the chaotic skein and to order the threads on a divine loom. Wizards who invented new spells aided this effort, every new spell brought order to the chaos of the weave.

Meanwhile, Shar nursed old wounds and traced the patterns that Selune's blast left behind until she we was able to create the mirror opposite of weave from the mold of her own scars. The shadow weave is the anti weave, a cancer on the weave. Where weave and shadow weave interact shadow consumes luminescence. Wizards who cast too many shadow weave spells find themselves unable to connect with Mystra's weave. It's never been clear if the shadow weave is the mirror of Mystryls (infinitely more powerful) weave or if the shadow weave adjusts itself as the weave is ordered. The fact that the Shadowvar were able to keep their city flying suggests the former (because that's a 10th level spell) and the fact that the shadow weave died when Cyric killed Mystra says the later.

BG3 is the first mention I've heard of the shadow weave -- I thought it was still gone.

TL;DR -- Gale almost certainly has an portion of Shar's shadow weave and not Mystryl's weave because it is acting like the shadow weave and not the Netherese weave.

WotC released Nethril: Empire of Magic into the public domain loooong ago (before they decided that it was mistake to make their old stuff public). You can still find it on the web. Much of the Mystryl - Mystra story is told there.

I'm really happy the shadow weave is back -- one my favorite parts of the lore.

Oh and I wish I could answer the question with 5th but in 2nd and 3rd, yes Mystra could cut off the gods from the weave but was reluctant to do so. In 4th it was 'revealed' that reason for the reluctance was that it was possible to do magic without the weave using different rules.

I think they mean the Netherese system so earlier chronologically if not in order of editions.

This is a good basic primer on the weave:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Weave

For more on its history, why you don't mess with it, and why spells are capped at ninth level (with very few exceptions):

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mystra (The goddess in charge of the weave)
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus (The man who used the only twelfth level spell to wrest control of the weave from Mystra, and succeeded...for five minutes. No prizes for guessing what happened next)
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Helm (A god who killed Mystra once, badly damaging the weave and creating wild magic and dead magic zones, lovingly known as Helmlands. I hope we encounter a few of those in our adventures, if only to make things more interesting)

I get what you are saying, but the term "spell slot" is an actual d&d term that is in the rulebooks that has a defined meaning. I believe the first official rulebooks that used the term "spell slot" is the 5E starter set and player's handbook.

Like you say, the rules are a tweak of earlier versions and the "spell slot" mechanic is most of what that tweak is. There are other minor tweaks as well, like short rest spell regeneration and prepared vs memorized spells, but the "spell slot" as defined in the PHB is the biggest tweak in spell casting from earlier editions.

Wouldn't we more than likely see the leftovers from the spellplague? I know there is still cave-ins from underdark areas because of it along with broken portals and messed up locations still not healed.

Edit* I might be mixing stuff up : /

There are still some out there but during the spellplague, Mystra hid her power inside Elminister's body (which why he didn't go mad) and, as part of her resurrection, E used that power to repair the plagued areas. (WotC's message to DMs, we're not saying you can't use that if you like but we're no longer focusing on it)

Given that wild magic is now one of the core sorcerer classes I think wild magic areas are probably fairly common.

Yeah, so accroding to this Gale is wrong about what weave is. If you are a spell caster he says there is a gust of weave about you and he also says that he needs to consume the weave inside artifacts, but weave is not something that is inside characters or objects.