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The intro to the game shows you what's to come with mindflayers, while keeping you fighting CR 1 and 2 creatures. The premise seems outlandish, but that's just good Dnd and I wouldn't have it any other way. Nothing you are actually supposed to fight, without metagaming for an xp boost or going full chaotic stupid, is that much of a threat.

You leave the ship, and your first major enemies are... low lvl bandits, low lvl undead, and goblins. Wow, I can't remember if my DMs have ever been so cruel as to send us against some big scary bandits. What ever should I do? I'm gonna go save a cat stuck in a tree for some XP first, not sure if I'm willing to go into a fight designed for my level without getting the upper hand.

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I would love to have a tutorial mission in the city that depends on your class and/or background.

Criminal rogue? Your mission is to go steal this thing from a locked chest somewhere. We're going to teach you how to pick locks, sneak and hide, about the advantage of initiating combat when your enemy doesn't know you're there, disarming traps, picking pockets, etc. So the tutorial leads you through the mission and, at the end (and maybe along the way) you have some choices to make that help to define who your character is: Are you stealing because you need the money or just for the thrill? Do you kill the guards or just knock them out? What is it that you just stole? Who did you steal it from? Are you going to sell it to the person who hired you? Keep it for yourself? Auction it off to the highest bidder? Give it away to someone who needs it?

Fighter? You're a city guard tracking down some criminals or maybe a pit fighter in a battle royale. You track down some hungry people that were just trying to steal some food - do you arrest them or let them go? Do you team up with other gladiators or try to get all of the glory for yourself? How gracious are you in victory/defeat?

Wizard? Going through trials in a magic tower or doing some kind of research. Do you revel in the power of your magic or is this all academic? How do you want to use what you are being trained in? What do you do when you learn some dark secret during your research?

Sorcerer? Who knows? Random nonsense just happens to you all the time. You have no control over it.

This tutorial could be preceded by a basic how-to-walk-around-and-interact-with-things section that all characters would do (so they don't have to write that up separately for every class or background). Then you learn your class-specific skills. Then you make some choices about who you are as a character. Then you get abducted.

More detailed combat tutorial (if needed) in the fight with Lae'zel against the imps. Then you level up - the game guides you through leveling and explains any new features you might gain. Continue the nautaloid as-is from there and you're well on your way to level 3 by the time you hit the ground.

Edit: Right now, your character starts out flat - almost entirely defined by the tadpole; you are what is happening to you and nothing more. By making some choices about your character early on (which could be mechanically meaningless or which might also impact e.g. your starting gear), it's easier to think of this as a well-rounded person who's going through a rough time, but has something to get back to. It makes for a more immersive story.

Last edited by grysqrl; 31/12/20 09:36 PM.
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I really like the idea of vignette's or scenarios that are class specific, mainly because it provides a mechanism to get folks who are not familiar with DnD to understand the basics of their class. That said, I understand it would be quite the undertaking since we know the classes will grow beyond 6. if that is the case you can always break things down through intro scenarios along the lines of melee, arcane, and rogue, or something like that. Personally, I think it's an investment in the growth of the game the more people that try it, having no previous exposure to DnD, and get hooked.

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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by bullse
But you want to start at level 10? How about Larian just give us God mode?

NWN1 - HOTU has you starting at lv 15.
NWN2 - MOTB I beieve thta you start at lv 18(not sure)
BG2 - Has you starting around lv 7~8 (different classes required different XP to level up on 2e)

None of then give "God mode".

Have you yet to understand what the max level in this game will be as intended by your DM Larian Studios?!?!?!
But you and others want to start at level 10?
Bwahahahahahahahaha, good luck with that short of a mod.

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I don't want to start the game at level 10, but the game campaign itself feels like a higher level campaign.

Originally Posted by Xultep
I really like the idea of vignette's or scenarios that are class specific, mainly because it provides a mechanism to get folks who are not familiar with DnD to understand the basics of their class. That said, I understand it would be quite the undertaking since we know the classes will grow beyond 6. if that is the case you can always break things down through intro scenarios along the lines of melee, arcane, and rogue, or something like that. Personally, I think it's an investment in the growth of the game the more people that try it, having no previous exposure to DnD, and get hooked.

I agree strongly with that and also think the game needs to make more of an effort to introduce itself to people who are new to D&D

There is room in the plot to explain the PCs being somehow level drained back down to zero due to being mind flayed, if that's a thing that people need to suspend their disbelief. But things like having a background vignette could function as a tutorial. I think the way they set up there opening they could definitely handle a class starter before the main game launches.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 01/01/21 03:15 AM.
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I don't see how you guys can think this is a high level campaign. Basic enemies off the top of my head are Imps, goblins, humans, skeletons, gnolls, & spiders. None of those scream level 5 or higher...ever

Last edited by fallenj; 01/01/21 04:08 AM.
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Originally Posted by biomag
The game could definitely use a prologue to get to level 3-4 before being captured. Not just to get more reasonable levels, but mainly because the custom character would need at least some basic storyline within Baldur'S Gate to have any kind of background besides a oneliners. Also actually playing these origin characters it would make sense to experience their story instead of just reading it... and once again the reason of us having origin characters is the reason why we won't see it happen or they would have to make several completely different prologues and that costs too many resources so here we are with this half-baked result.
This is my feeling as well.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
I don't see how you guys can think this is a high level campaign. Basic enemies off the top of my head are Imps, goblins, humans, skeletons, gnolls, & spiders. None of those scream level 5 or higher...ever

You forgot phase spiders, the matriarch, hag, redcaps, bulette, minotaurs could all be considered level 5 and up. The only reason they can be destroyed fairly easily is due to Larian combat.

In a straight up 5e ruleset fight, some of those encounters would be very challenging at levels 1-4.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fallenj
I don't see how you guys can think this is a high level campaign. Basic enemies off the top of my head are Imps, goblins, humans, skeletons, gnolls, & spiders. None of those scream level 5 or higher...ever

You forgot phase spiders, the matriarch, hag, redcaps, bulette, minotaurs could all be considered level 5 and up. The only reason they can be destroyed fairly easily is due to Larian combat.

In a straight up 5e ruleset fight, some of those encounters would be very challenging at levels 1-4.

Those are in small numbers so a single or couple in one encounter would be considered low, while a large number of weaker creatures would equal that same encounter. (I couldn't remember the name for redcaps though, thanks) So again the campaign does not seem high end at the moment.

On a side note, you can hit level 4 before even doing the swamp, underdark, or whatever is passed the gith on the road, I actually haven't done any of those areas at all yet.

Last edited by fallenj; 01/01/21 04:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fallenj
I don't see how you guys can think this is a high level campaign. Basic enemies off the top of my head are Imps, goblins, humans, skeletons, gnolls, & spiders. None of those scream level 5 or higher...ever

You forgot phase spiders, the matriarch, hag, redcaps, bulette, minotaurs could all be considered level 5 and up. The only reason they can be destroyed fairly easily is due to Larian combat.

In a straight up 5e ruleset fight, some of those encounters would be very challenging at levels 1-4.

Those are in small numbers so a single or couple in one encounter would be considered low, while a large number of weaker creatures would equal that same encounter. (I couldn't remember the name for redcaps though, thanks) So again the campaign does not seem high end at the moment.

On a side note, you can hit level 4 before even doing the swamp, underdark, or whatever is passed the gith on the road, I actually haven't done any of those areas at all yet.

I get your point and in all fairness, you are right. Goblins, gnolls and such are low level encounters. And the bulette, minotaurs are meant for 5th level characters which you should reach by the time you see them. I think it's more about timing and execution. You start off in the middle of a fight between mind flayers and gith. I think players should be eased into stuff like that instead of dropping it first. Let players get comfortable with the game with basic enemies like you noted then go nuts.

FYI, you don't just face one or two redcaps. Since you haven't encountered them yet, I won't go into details. Same with the phase spiders.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fallenj
I don't see how you guys can think this is a high level campaign. Basic enemies off the top of my head are Imps, goblins, humans, skeletons, gnolls, & spiders. None of those scream level 5 or higher...ever

You forgot phase spiders, the matriarch, hag, redcaps, bulette, minotaurs could all be considered level 5 and up. The only reason they can be destroyed fairly easily is due to Larian combat.

In a straight up 5e ruleset fight, some of those encounters would be very challenging at levels 1-4.

Those are in small numbers so a single or couple in one encounter would be considered low, while a large number of weaker creatures would equal that same encounter. (I couldn't remember the name for redcaps though, thanks) So again the campaign does not seem high end at the moment.

On a side note, you can hit level 4 before even doing the swamp, underdark, or whatever is passed the gith on the road, I actually haven't done any of those areas at all yet.

I get your point and in all fairness, you are right. Goblins, gnolls and such are low level encounters. And the bulette, minotaurs are meant for 5th level characters which you should reach by the time you see them. I think it's more about timing and execution. You start off in the middle of a fight between mind flayers and gith. I think players should be eased into stuff like that instead of dropping it first. Let players get comfortable with the game with basic enemies like you noted then go nuts.

FYI, you don't just face one or two redcaps. Since you haven't encountered them yet, I won't go into details. Same with the phase spiders.

Swamp is a side story area that can be done at level 3-4, which from what little I've done / experienced, it's probably set for around that level (my multi-group did go to that area but it was rushed and never finished, we got a bug related to the fog causing ctd every time loading a save from that area) But that's just me guessing. Redcaps are equal to goblins as in they are a minor creature that can be spammed for level 3-4s, again I'm presuming (I'd have to get my books out and look but I only have 3.5 and 4th editions).

The phase spiders come in 2-3 groups, it has been a bit but if I recall you have the boss spider and two phase spiders in the main encounter plus additional groups (2-3) in the cave.

The intro of the game you only face imps, humans, and whatever the other creature is. The other two at the last encounter are setup to put a time limit at the end, make it feel short on time.

Now that I'm thinking about the whole battle at the ship, the items on the tables probably should be scattered on the floors instead of being on the table like they are.

Last edited by fallenj; 01/01/21 06:21 AM.
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Originally Posted by fallenj
Now that I'm thinking about the whole battle at the ship, the items on the tables probably should be scattered on the floors instead of being on the table like they are.

Why exactly?

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Large scale battle, your on a flying ship and everything around is blown up but all the items on tables are nice and neat...really?

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Yeah to be clear, I'm also not advocating for the game to start at a higher character level. I love the early character levels, where a lowly wolf can take down your character. It's why I prefer BG1 to BG2. What I'm saying is that the story as it is currently written is clearly not for a low-level party.

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In my view the Level 1 start vs Goblins is a neat trick and the higher powers balanced by the Larva's secret powers where ever needed. The massive power gains in first levels are rewarding. And it is much easier for new players or people who never did pen & paper to get into this. Plus the story can be much longer before you hit massively disbalancing spells & rules like WISH. Larian designers already pointed to thess option ruin any early or midgame storyline balance.Thankfully lariaan didn't encapsule the stellar great storyline into some diabolo type endless hack & slay. In Neverwinter Nights you had to hack though endless dungeons of enemies to progress from 10 to 11 and beyond in a very slow paced piecemeal story. That wouldn't do any good to BG3 and still be true to D&D rules. The ship escape plot is a very well done tutorial teaching you game basics. Much better than Gorions Castle courtyard escape in BG1. Icewind dale is a good example what happens when you start high level on a shorter sstoryline. BG2 did have some start of it's own. Really appreaciated how intensly this storyline kicked off.


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Originally Posted by bullse
Umm, no, fully disagree.
You should work for every level you obtain, period.
And getting to level 2 is cake. 3 is not hard at all, and 4 is not hard at all, just takes a little more time. I would expect that same for each level afterwards.
But you want to start at level 10? How about Larian just give us God mode?

You don't get it. Archdruid is supposed to be at lv 14 traditionally in D&D. Similarly, Archmage is at quite the hight level, probably around lv 10/12 , even more. Lv 1 is the level of a starting young man /woman going out of his/her village hunting for some wolves/ kobold. Very weak character, fighting very weak enemies. Level don't scale in DnD, you are a archdruid because you are lv 14 and because you rules a grove.
Lv1 is someone that has basically 0 adventure experience. Doesn't work well with a 200 years old vampire or a Wizard that is so brilliant he became one of Mistra Chosen lovers, or Wyll that already has the reputation of a hero for fighting giant.

Also, you started lv 7/8 in Baldurs gate 2 , because lorewise it was supposed to be following the storyline of the Bhaalspawn , and its take place after certains events. So its not like starting at a highter level is a new thing, either.


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Originally Posted by Lumign
To begin with, I know this idea is more suited for MOD than game suggestion.

Anyhow, it's not hard to agree that level 1-4 characters surviving in an environment full of Mindflayers, Red Dragons, Hell, Underdark, not to mention a level 1 archmage NPC, level 5 archdruid... (ridiculous is the only description I can give)

For the sake of (lore) coherence alone, the starting levels should be way higher (or given a choice for player), along with adjusting monster levels to be more "realistic".

The way I see it is the beginning of the game will be filled with NPC/monsters with lower levels (from the bandits to the goblin and gnolls encounters) then their levels would increase to match the player's level (hag and Gith patrol etc.)


I think characters in this setting should start at around 5 or so, it would make the most sense. 10 is a bit of a stretch and very powerful and leaves little room for growth in the entirety of the game since in no way would it make sense if you were a level 20 god by the end.

I do agree 100% that it makes no sense that you start out as a level 1 adventurer in this very dangerous setting unless they tweaked the difficulty and story to make it more of the first act a survival game sort of like fort joy. In that case it could make sense that you were a level 1 adventurer and were avoiding fights for as long as you could until you got more training and gathered more relics and powerful artifacts to aid you.

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Originally Posted by bullse
Umm, no, fully disagree.
You should work for every level you obtain, period.
And getting to level 2 is cake. 3 is not hard at all, and 4 is not hard at all, just takes a little more time. I would expect that same for each level afterwards.
But you want to start at level 10? How about Larian just give us God mode?

I think you are missing the point. The OP isnt promoting the idea of less difficulty or an easier game. He is saying to make the lore/situattion/immersion with the level of the party. Not in terms of difficulty. My suggestion would be that they create a story element that would explain why these seasoned adventurers are such a low level, considering they have what seems like a varied background and high level experience with magical items, and have fame for adventuring. These are clearly not Level 1 characters in any sense. Level 1 adventurers are adept at combat and know a skill or spell or two but in no way have they completed many adventures or have any sort of renown. If they have I believe they would be level 3 or 4 atleast.

Last edited by gametester1; 01/01/21 07:57 PM.
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I think the game is fine for starting off at lvl 1. It eases players into PC creation and game mechanics.

Apart from the initial ship sequence I think the party fights appropriate CR creatures for the adventure.

In terms of your companion backstory - I think it is fine at starting them at lvl 1, because 5e allows a lot of freedom with your background.

Lvl 1 Fighter is the same mechanically, even though a Fighter with the Soldier background probably would have seen more fights than a Fighter with the Anthropologist background. Hell, you can have a Knight background, trained all your life to be good in combat, and yet a Cobbler (Guild Artisan) can be as good of a fighter as you. And I am fine with that.

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Originally Posted by gametester1
I think you are missing the point. The OP isnt promoting the idea of less difficulty or an easier game. He is saying to make the lore/situattion/immersion with the level of the party. Not in terms of difficulty. My suggestion would be that they create a story element that would explain why these seasoned adventurers are such a low level, considering they have what seems like a varied background and high level experience with magical items, and have fame for adventuring. These are clearly not Level 1 characters in any sense. Level 1 adventurers are adept at combat and know a skill or spell or two but in no way have they completed many adventures or have any sort of renown. If they have I believe they would be level 3 or 4 atleast.

No, I did not miss the OP's point(s). On the other hand, some of you have missed my point: Larian Studios (and internal testing) had indicated that the max level for BG3 would be in the neighborhood of 10-12 possibly a wee bit higher short of a modder creating a mod to bump it to say something like 18-20. To those of you advocating starting at level 10, what's the point in playing when a BG3 full release only has 3-4 Acts with a max level of 10-12?

Start at level 10.
End game at level 10-12.

What? Huh? Did I miss something here?
Come on people, use some common sense here cause this idea makes NO sense at all knowing what I have just indicated.

Last edited by bullse; 01/01/21 09:01 PM.
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