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Originally Posted by fallenj
AOO and several other reaction spells are already in the game and it happens automatically that's good enough.


It really isn't though. Right now the reactions don't even always work or happen, but even if they were to work; you don't always know what you want to do until the battle is happening, and then you might have clicked away some choices you truly wanted to use, but even before they happen, you might have already procced a reaction that you didn't want, like an AOO, but instead it turned out you should have saved your reaction for a shield spell.

But even if you only have the shield spell (for instance) active, what about a situation where a small little critter comes up and hits you, and you wouldn't want to waste a spell slot and a reaction on that, because a far larger threat will attack you afterwards? I know the shield spell lasts the round out, but it could be some other reaction. In the cases of reactions, it's all about prioritising depending on what the enemies do and what you think is the best choice for the time being, not depending on automatic procs.

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If I want to play Solasta, I would play it.....

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Originally Posted by bullse
If I want to play Solasta, I would play it.....

It's not about just "ripping off Solasta", it's just that Solasta did the core ruleset implementation far better and more true to the letter than Larian did, even though Larian claimed they did all they could to have a super faithful implementation, which is clearly not the case. If they were to change the way reactions are handled and be inspired by the way Solasta did it, that would be awesome. I don't WANT them to be another Solasta, since frankly BG3 is far better in so damn many ways in my opinion. But sometimes it's worth taking a look at how others did things and improve upon one's own product.

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+1 to OP

just give as a tick box in the game options: automatic reactions on or off

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My first post on the forums! I don't think people saying they'd like to see some things be more like another game is inherently bad. To reject such things at only a glance is blatant tribalism. Both games are based off the 5th edition Dungeons & Dragons system and I don't think I'm the only one in saying that I'd like to have the feel of playing the tabletop D&D in this game. Solasta does the combat aspect quite well in reflecting this. The players just want that same experience with the quality of a big name studio such as Larian, and as well as the official licensing support that they have in order to make the most excellent game that we've all been dreaming about.

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by fallenj
AOO and several other reaction spells are already in the game and it happens automatically that's good enough.


It really isn't though. Right now the reactions don't even always work or happen, but even if they were to work; you don't always know what you want to do until the battle is happening, and then you might have clicked away some choices you truly wanted to use, but even before they happen, you might have already procced a reaction that you didn't want, like an AOO, but instead it turned out you should have saved your reaction for a shield spell.

But even if you only have the shield spell (for instance) active, what about a situation where a small little critter comes up and hits you, and you wouldn't want to waste a spell slot and a reaction on that, because a far larger threat will attack you afterwards? I know the shield spell lasts the round out, but it could be some other reaction. In the cases of reactions, it's all about prioritising depending on what the enemies do and what you think is the best choice for the time being, not depending on automatic procs.

No it is, its in the game. If it works or not doesn't matter, really shouldn't have to say this but you know, ITS EARLY ACCESS!!!!!!!. Truthfully I don't really care, if little critters are standing next to you and you cast shield maybe you should of thought about it in the first place....like really?! come on, use your head and plan your turns out instead of blindly rolling your face on the key board and complaining its not working.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by fallenj
AOO and several other reaction spells are already in the game and it happens automatically that's good enough.


It really isn't though. Right now the reactions don't even always work or happen, but even if they were to work; you don't always know what you want to do until the battle is happening, and then you might have clicked away some choices you truly wanted to use, but even before they happen, you might have already procced a reaction that you didn't want, like an AOO, but instead it turned out you should have saved your reaction for a shield spell.

But even if you only have the shield spell (for instance) active, what about a situation where a small little critter comes up and hits you, and you wouldn't want to waste a spell slot and a reaction on that, because a far larger threat will attack you afterwards? I know the shield spell lasts the round out, but it could be some other reaction. In the cases of reactions, it's all about prioritising depending on what the enemies do and what you think is the best choice for the time being, not depending on automatic procs.

No it is, its in the game. If it works or not doesn't matter, really shouldn't have to say this but you know, ITS EARLY ACCESS!!!!!!!. Truthfully I don't really care, if little critters are standing next to you and you cast shield maybe you should of thought about it in the first place....like really?! come on, use your head and plan your turns out instead of blindly rolling your face on the key board and complaining its not working.


You don't seem to understand my points at all. And I am quite aware it's early access, hence me writing "but even if they were to work". The point is CONTROL. You don't want to lose control to automatic processes that might fire when you don't want them to, and you cannot turn the reactions you've chosen on and off when it's the enemy turn. Hence, you lose control and are limited in making your own calls when you get a chance to a reaction. Did you even read what I wrote? Seems to me you just want to be belligerent.

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If you understood it, you would of never brought it up. An yes its a control freak situation, instead of planning ahead and trying to counter play. You need a pop up saying hey, you want to do this now. No, its not like that, get over it, and actually plan your turns out.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
If you understood it, you would of never brought it up. An yes its a control freak situation, instead of planning ahead and trying to counter play. You need a pop up saying hey, you want to do this now. No, its not like that, get over it, and actually plan your turns out.
Perhaps you should explain what it is you think reactions are, because it doesn't seem to coincide with my understanding of them or anything else I've seen posted in this thread.

Reactions have nothing to do with planning your turn out. The vast majority of the time, they don't happen during your turn. Reactions are, by definition, things that you can choose to do in response to what's happening around you. In order to choose to respond to things, the game has to ask you if you want to respond when things happen. Currently, it makes assumptions about when and how you should respond to things and this doesn't work well for players who want a measure of control over what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
If you understood it, you would of never brought it up. An yes its a control freak situation, instead of planning ahead and trying to counter play. You need a pop up saying hey, you want to do this now. No, its not like that, get over it, and actually plan your turns out.


I am not sure you know what mechanics I am referring to. I am talking about reactions like attacks of opportunity, shield spell, hellish rebuke, defensive duelist and the like. These are things you cannot "plan ahead" as they happen during the enemy's turn. Therefore, the "popups" will allow for a variety of different choices in some situations, and you can then choose to prioritise whether or not a certain reaction should be taken, or not, in case you wish to save for another potential reaction later. As it stands now, those options do not exist. I just want those choices to exist.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
No it is, its in the game. If it works or not doesn't matter, really shouldn't have to say this but you know, ITS EARLY ACCESS!!!!!!!. Truthfully I don't really care, if little critters are standing next to you and you cast shield maybe you should of thought about it in the first place....like really?! come on, use your head and plan your turns out instead of blindly rolling your face on the key board and complaining its not working.
You would obviously not cast Shield in this situation. If the game is forcing all reactions to be automatic then it would make you cast it when you would rather save it for later. Counterspell too, why waste it on something silly when you can save it for something important. Hellish Rebuke even, why waste a spell slot on a nearly dead enemy or one with fire resistance. Some reactions make sense to be automatic like Shield master, Uncanny Dodge and probably others, but not spells. Perhaps make the manual/automatic part a menu toggle for those that don't care or don't have any reaction spells so you don't have to worry about it.

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duh the name of the feature is self explanatory. Easiest one that comes to mind is AOO which I said in my first post, if you don't know what that is it is called Attack of Opportunity.

Now in BG3 its automatic, you attack the first person that leaves your area, does not interrupt game play, game moves forward fluently.

In Solasta as soon as someone leaves your area, you get a pop up mid battle asking if you want to do attack of opportunity.

This pop up slows down combat, handholds you and stops you thinking. Are you going to cast a reaction spell while the situation doesn't require it or is less favorable? No, you will cast another spell or do another action. It is seriously panning your moves ahead of time, is it possible to fail or have a outcome that you didn't expect, yes.

This is not 100% needed feature and truthfully its out right terrible.

I actually bought that game played it for 14 hours and unistalled. They have a sticky on the steam forums posted by the devs explaining the rules they adjusted for 5e, that game is not 100% faithful to 5e (this is just encase anyone doesn't understand that).

Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by fallenj
No it is, its in the game. If it works or not doesn't matter, really shouldn't have to say this but you know, ITS EARLY ACCESS!!!!!!!. Truthfully I don't really care, if little critters are standing next to you and you cast shield maybe you should of thought about it in the first place....like really?! come on, use your head and plan your turns out instead of blindly rolling your face on the key board and complaining its not working.
You would obviously not cast Shield in this situation.

This is probably the highlight of my day, have a wonderful day tomarrow Zarna.

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Originally Posted by fallenj
duh the name of the feature is self explanatory. Easiest one that comes to mind is AOO which I said in my first post, if you don't know what that is it is called Attack of Opportunity.

Now in BG3 its automatic, you attack the first person that leaves your area, does not interrupt game play, game moves forward fluently.

In Solasta as soon as someone leaves your area, you get a pop up mid battle asking if you want to do attack of opportunity.

This pop up slows down combat, handholds you and stops you thinking. Are you going to cast a reaction spell while the situation doesn't require it or is less favorable? No, you will cast another spell or do another action. It is seriously panning your moves ahead of time, is it possible to fail or have a outcome that you didn't expect, yes.

This is not 100% needed feature and truthfully its out right terrible.

I actually bought that game played it for 14 hours and unistalled. They have a sticky on the steam forums posted by the devs explaining the rules they adjusted for 5e, that game is not 100% faithful to 5e (this is just encase anyone doesn't understand that).

Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by fallenj
No it is, its in the game. If it works or not doesn't matter, really shouldn't have to say this but you know, ITS EARLY ACCESS!!!!!!!. Truthfully I don't really care, if little critters are standing next to you and you cast shield maybe you should of thought about it in the first place....like really?! come on, use your head and plan your turns out instead of blindly rolling your face on the key board and complaining its not working.
You would obviously not cast Shield in this situation.

This is probably the highlight of my day, have a wonderful day tomarrow Zarna.

It could be made optional, allowing people to have automatic reactions now with no pop up, and allowing those who want to use different kinds of reactions to have a popup instead if they have a valid option to react with. Player choice and control over the experience is what RPGs like this is about and making systems optional would likely satiate everyone.

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Hey fallen,

In 5e it's actually called an Opportunity Attack. AOO is older editions.

Question:

You're in a combat with a Lich and two zealot acolytes; you know the Lich has some pretty nasty effects up its sleeve, including some very high level stuff. The zealots, you know, mostly cast minor buffs and create chip annoyance with cantrips. You've already rolled initiative; the turn order goes: You, Zealot 1, Zealot 2, Lich.

How do you 'seriously plan your moves ahead of time' so that you can tactically and intelligently respond to the situation and counterspell only the enemy spells that are most important to counter, without wasting your reaction on counterspelling a zealot casting shield of faith, and not having a reaction to stop the finger of death that comes later in the same turn?

You seem to be implying that you can and do and others should, without the game asking them when or if they want to use a particular reaction when it becomes available - could you explain your reasoning and method to me?

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Originally Posted by fallenj
This pop up slows down combat, handholds you and stops you thinking. . . .
This is not 100% needed feature and truthfully its out right terrible.

Sorry I don't agree. I think it increases strategic thinking. Using @Niara's example, you are facing the lich lord and his imp familiar. The imp throws a rock at you. Are you going to burn a spell slot to cast shield or are you going to take the hit so you can save that reaction for when the lich sends a volley of level 9 magic missiles at you?

Or, in Solasta itself. You are completely surrounded by undead, you turn undead and they start to flee. Are you going to have the mage try and hit the vampire with her staff -- which ends the turned state and returns vampire to battle -- or are you go going the let than one run while you focus on the undead that weren't turned. The pop up is doing something important.

And, sure, make it automatic for those who want it but I suspect that will lead people to ask "why am losing my spell slots after each battle"?

And yes, Solasta has house rules. Some are really fun. What I really like about those devs is they've started from the position of "the rules are great, how do we recreate the tabletop experience" instead of "these rules aren't well designed for a video game, we're going to have to make so major revisions.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Hey fallen,

In 5e it's actually called an Opportunity Attack. AOO is older editions.
OOF you got me on that

Originally Posted by Niara
Question:

You're in a combat with a Lich and two zealot acolytes; you know the Lich has some pretty nasty effects up its sleeve, including some very high level stuff. The zealots, you know, mostly cast minor buffs and create chip annoyance with cantrips. You've already rolled initiative; the turn order goes: You, Zealot 1, Zealot 2, Lich.

How do you 'seriously plan your moves ahead of time' so that you can tactically and intelligently respond to the situation and counterspell only the enemy spells that are most important to counter, without wasting your reaction on counterspelling a zealot casting shield of faith, and not having a reaction to stop the finger of death that comes later in the same turn?

You seem to be implying that you can and do and others should, without the game asking them when or if they want to use a particular reaction when it becomes available - could you explain your reasoning and method to me?

companions? CC Zealots and use counter when you think your going to needed it. Line of sight, use companion as meat shield, what's your inventory, potions?, cleric?, grease bottle? Barrels around? where are we? How many turns till he usually casts death?

There is usually a good amount of choices you can do in any given scenario

Counterspell isn't in the game yet from what I can gather its a 5th level spell (3rd level spell slot). I know there is a couple reaction spells for warlock already in the game, do you guys cry yourself to sleep when something doesn't work like you wanted it to? Use another tactic or maybe save scum.

Originally Posted by CJMPinger
It could be made optional, allowing people to have automatic reactions now with no pop up, and allowing those who want to use different kinds of reactions to have a popup instead if they have a valid option to react with. Player choice and control over the experience is what RPGs like this is about and making systems optional would likely satiate everyone.

No, point was this feature is not needed and they do it auto in this game.

Almost 2am I got to work tomorrow, later.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
And, sure, make it automatic for those who want it but I suspect that will lead people to ask "why am losing my spell slots after each battle"?

The only reaction spells I've seen so far require you to cast the spell, you get a buff / icon showing you have the spell active and when said action happens that spell goes off. Like I said this is how a couple of the warlock spells work.

Here add this last part before bed, I had a guy in my multi game that would take about 5 minutes per turn trying to decide what he wanted to do. Now in that game I would actually dig through my inventory look at my abilities, initiative order, contemplate my next move and so on.

Now add a pop up for opportunity attack and any other stupid reactions that want to prolong the battle even more.

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good example

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Originally Posted by fallenj
companions? CC Zealots and use counter when you think your going to needed it. Line of sight, use companion as meat shield, what's your inventory, potions?, cleric?, grease bottle? Barrels around? where are we? How many turns till he usually casts death?

There is usually a good amount of choices you can do in any given scenario

Counterspell isn't in the game yet from what I can gather its a 5th level spell (3rd level spell slot). I know there is a couple reaction spells for warlock already in the game, do you guys cry yourself to sleep when something doesn't work like you wanted it to? Use another tactic or maybe save scum.

I asked you a very simple question. I defined the example. The turn order is set; everybody mentioned in the initiative is mentioned. That is the scenario. There is no save-scumming for a better situation; this is the encounter I'm defining. It's turn one. That is the turn order as rolled; the lich is going to cast finger of death on you. The zealots are going to cast minor buff spells or cantrips. That is the entirety of the scenario; a door has just slammed shut behind you, leaving you in a blank, empty, round room that is 30 feet across.

Your goal is to counterspell the finger of death, because not doing so will result in your death from the base damage alone, even if you make the save. How do you do it?

Any sane implementation of the rules allows you to do this, straight up, without fussing; it's a tactical decision that you as a player can make - to not use your reactions on things that you don't want to use them on, and to use them on things that you do. It's your choice.

You could certianly try to crowd control the zealots, as you mentioned. You try that - it only sticks to one of them. Now what? You just die and reload, and hope it sticks to both of them next time? Why do you feel that that is better than being able to choose when and when not to use your own spells?

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It’s not just casting spells. How will paladin smites be handled? Smites can’t be automated as you need to choose the spell level and even if you want to perform a smite.

It needs to be a reactionary action after a hit so the player can decide what kind of smite to use.

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Dare I say it...but in Solasta ;-) .... you choose which target and what level spell slot to use. As you would in 5E...as the rules mandate. There are so many things in 5E that require more precise control like this, I really don't see how Larian can't fix this. And as noted - for those who don't care, have a toggle "auto" vs ""core rules".

Last edited by booboo; 09/01/21 09:46 AM. Reason: spelling
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