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Resting system is perfect, don't change anything, thanks.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Its not about phases ...
One new person creates an account to complain about something, dont even care enough to see if there isnt simmilar topic allready ... create new one ... and others will smell it at range of few kilometers, like sharks ...
Then it may create ilusion of "big isue" unless you notice, its still the same people repeating still the same sentences. :-/

If you say so, still seems like phases to me.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Its not about phases ...
One new person creates an account to complain about something, dont even care enough to see if there isnt simmilar topic allready ... create new one ... and others will smell it at range of few kilometers, like sharks ...
Then it may create ilusion of "big isue" unless you notice, its still the same people repeating still the same sentences. :-/

Ragnarock.The entire point of this forum is so that people can come out here and tell Larian what they would like Larian to change about the game. It may sound like complaining, but it is all about telling Larian what they think isn't working. When you say things like this, you are discouraging people from doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Please stop defending the game and making it seem like people are just being vicious jerks because they don't like something about the game. How else do you think people are going to take it when you say we're like sharks.

What are you talking about, Rag replied to my post about people posting, that's it.

Last edited by fallenj; 24/03/21 12:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Man I hate these fights where standing somewhere high means you can just shoot everyone down without ever being at risk of being attacked.

The entire Goblin fortress, Minthara, the entire Zhentarim hideout...

Insta kills by shoving into a pit or river comes close second. The environment overrides all class abilities and undermines clever resource management.

There's so much cheese! The resting cheese is just more cheese on top. I want it all gone. smile

+1

@MrSam: Resting is a problem.
At the moment they might as well add a "restore all resources button" than can be used any time outside of combat.
Or they rename resting to "I want to progress companion quests or have strange visions"


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Originally Posted by MrSam
Resting system is perfect, don't change anything, thanks.
Can you explain why you think the system is perfect? What do you like about it? (Seriously asking here. We can't have a discussion unless you provide reasons and arguments, and who knows you might convince some of us to change our minds)

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Can you explain why you think the system is perfect? What do you like about it? (Seriously asking here. We can't have a discussion unless you provide reasons and arguments, and who knows you might convince some of us to change our minds)
Press long rest button -> all resources restored -> happy mind, let the adventure continue. What's the problem? You want to take a shower and shave beard or what?

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Originally Posted by MrSam
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Can you explain why you think the system is perfect? What do you like about it? (Seriously asking here. We can't have a discussion unless you provide reasons and arguments, and who knows you might convince some of us to change our minds)
Press long rest button -> all resources restored -> happy mind, let the adventure continue. What's the problem? You want to take a shower and shave beard or what?
If that's all it is, it's not really a resting "system" is it? It's just extra clicks. What you want is a Dragon Age style automatic heal and cooldown reset after every fight. But D&D isn't that game. Classes get their abilities and spells back at a different pace in D&D so you can't change it into Dragon Age without screwing up the classes.

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Originally Posted by MrSam
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Can you explain why you think the system is perfect? What do you like about it? (Seriously asking here. We can't have a discussion unless you provide reasons and arguments, and who knows you might convince some of us to change our minds)
Press long rest button -> all resources restored -> happy mind, let the adventure continue. What's the problem? You want to take a shower and shave beard or what?
So you're fine with companion dialogue being restricted to long resting?
And that the ease of long resting means that spellcasters are now much more powerful than martial characters?
And that you can fast travel back to camp in the middle of a dangerous area, long rest, then come back fully rested and fully restored, removing a lot of the tension of dungeon delving?

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by MrSam
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Can you explain why you think the system is perfect? What do you like about it? (Seriously asking here. We can't have a discussion unless you provide reasons and arguments, and who knows you might convince some of us to change our minds)
Press long rest button -> all resources restored -> happy mind, let the adventure continue. What's the problem? You want to take a shower and shave beard or what?
So you're fine with companion dialogue being restricted to long resting?
And that the ease of long resting means that spellcasters are now much more powerful than martial characters?
And that you can fast travel back to camp in the middle of a dangerous area, long rest, then come back fully rested and fully restored, removing a lot of the tension of dungeon delving?

For me, the last two things are absolutely normal, in any case, I do not spam rest unnecessarily. But do I want use spells more often, rather than wait for "judgment day"??? Yes.

I only care about the dialogs. It's not good right now.


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Two things:
  • Resting in dungeons
    It's impossible to rest in the Zhentarim hide-out, suggesting that they are experimenting with allowed areas for resting.
  • Rests before worm take-over
    The current build has no limit to the number of rests before the worm takes over, but the story suggests that excessive resting could result in a game loss.

Last edited by GristlyKnuckle; 24/03/21 05:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by GristlyKnuckle
Two things:
  • Resting in dungeons
    It's impossible to rest in the Zhentarim hide-out, suggesting that they are experimenting with allowed areas for resting.
  • Rests before worm take-over
    The current build has no limit to the number of rests before the worm takes over, but the story suggests that excessive resting could result in a game loss.
The Zhent hideout should be an ideal place to camp. If you're their "friend" or wiped them all out and it's empty.

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Originally Posted by GristlyKnuckle
Two things:
  • Resting in dungeons
    It's impossible to rest in the Zhentarim hide-out, suggesting that they are experimenting with allowed areas for resting.
  • Rests before worm take-over
    The current build has no limit to the number of rests before the worm takes over, but the story suggests that excessive resting could result in a game loss.

You also can't rest in dungeon under Teahouse. I already wrote about this in some thread, hmm... I think people here just mean by "dungeon" absolutely any area with some enemy. And Larian forbids rest only in DUNGEONS, not in open locations.


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Originally Posted by MrSam
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Can you explain why you think the system is perfect? What do you like about it? (Seriously asking here. We can't have a discussion unless you provide reasons and arguments, and who knows you might convince some of us to change our minds)
Press long rest button -> all resources restored -> happy mind, let the adventure continue. What's the problem? You want to take a shower and shave beard or what?

LOL, yes please.

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These things are, objectively, wrong with the resting system:

1. The camp does not exist anywhere you can find in the game world, and wherever you actually are when you choose to rest, you go to visually the same camp.

This is an obvious riff on the DAO camp idea, where it was also bad. Although you can expect the camp "layout" to be the same wherever you are, it would at least be nice if it looked like the region you were in.

If it is intended that the camp is always in a "safe" location ( given it contains a dog, a god, and various other hangers-on ) and the camp does not "follow" you, then a long rest should be possible without actually visiting the camp.

2. Much of the intra-party dialog occurs only at the camp, which seems forced.

Obviously this is beneficial when creating the A/V assets, since you know the location and don't have to try to merge camera angles with some random location.

On the whole, I guess I prefer restricting the conversations to camp if it means not looking up the nostrils/at the back of the head of the character I am speaking to.

3. Long rests are always safe.

Often DnD and videogames based on it have used the notion of safe/unsafe rest areas. The camp is a safe area, as generally are taverns/inns, player-owned buildings etc. The open road, the underdark, dungeons etc are generally not safe.

There are various consequences to resting in unsafe areas, including theft of goods, the potential for random attacks etc, but these are not reflected in BG3 as the camp we magically return to is classed as "safe".

4. There is no concept of time.

Long rests have only one requirement; that you rest/sleep for 8 hours, at least 16 hours after the completion of your last long rest.

But this is meaningless in BG3. Since it has no concept of time, this means that a long rest is available whenever you want, without even the cost of eating meals ( given how much food ther is in the game, you would think you might need to eat some of it for sustenance!).



This is what is, objectively, NOT wrong with the resting system:

1. That you can long rest after every encounter.

There is, as far as I know, no version of DnD that has ever existed that prevented you from choosing to rest after every encounter to regain spells and other class abilities, it that is what you wish to do.

It is not to do with class balance, not to do with tactical finesse, not to do with playing ability. It is merely a judgement as to whether you have enough resources left to enter anouther encounter without replenishing them. If you judge that you do not, you rest, unless there is some overriding reason not to.




Personally, like most of the other things that the TT players obsess about, I ignore the fact that I can min/max resting in the game, because I see no reason to do so. The game is more enjoyable role-played, without looking for advantages everywhere.

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I think the easiest solution to the resting problem that wouldn't require a major overhaul of the camping system is to have a waypoint at the campsite and make it so that you can only fast travel from a waypoint location. That way when you enter a new area, like when you fall into the Underdark, you can't return to camp until you find a Waypoint (or find a way to backtrack to one). It makes the most sense from a narrative perspective and limits how often you can camp. I'm also not a fan of how you can fast travel from anywhere on the map.

The only problem I could see is that it might make things TOO difficult. What happens if you fall into the Underdark and have to fight the minotaurs without any spell slots? I guess that's what fleeing from battle would be for.

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As it stands, I will never complete a game with Origin characters. Their story, their benefit, their enhancement are all built around scenes and events that can only take place at camp.

It makes no sense for me to go to camp when I still have full resources on everyone and still have 1 or 2 short rests. And then some events can't even trigger at all, like the Tiefling celebration scene + Halsin without you doing this.

You are penalized for NOT long resting enough by being stripped of story and cinematics.

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After lengthy consideration this is what I would like for the resting system in BG3:

- A gold tax in the form of Camping Supplies to discourage long rest spam. Let the game reward you in gold for playing well and saving resources. Tax should be high enough to matter.

- Local resting spots. Abandoned houses, camps, ancient temples, friendly settlements etc. Mostly for immersion to make the world feel real and have a sense of distance and scale. But also for game mechanics, as explained below.

- Fatigue system that prevents you from always backtracking to a safe camp somewhere beyond a realistic distance. If you push deep into a dungeon, wilderness or the Underdark you have to rest there. Basically a fatigue system would effectively limit the radius in which you can operate at full strength and set meaningful intervals for resting.

this leads to...

- Redesign the fast travel system. Remove magical teleportation everywhere and only use waypoints for mundane travel on foot so that fatigue can come into play. Every rest spot / campsite should have a waypoint. Disable teleport to base camp and put it on the actual map and as a regular waypoint.

- Optional random encounters in areas that aren't flagged "safe" in the spirit of BG and D&D would also discourage rest spamming. An increasing chance to be found could work if you spam rests, perhaps.

There is simply no beating around the bush with this one. D&D 5e is designed around Long and Short Rests, attrition and fatigue to it's core. Resting can't be removed or changed from 5e without making a complete mess of all the classes. Accepting this will result in a far better game. You can still remove any resting restrictions on casual difficulties where balance isn't as critical to begin with.

Last edited by 1varangian; 13/04/21 01:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
After lengthy consideration this is what I would like for the resting system in BG3:

- A gold tax in the form of Camping Supplies to discourage long rest spam. Let the game reward you in gold for playing well and saving resources. Tax should be high enough to matter.

- Local resting spots. Abandoned houses, camps, ancient temples, friendly settlements etc. Mostly for immersion to make the world feel real and have a sense of distance and scale. But also for game mechanics, as explained below.

- Fatigue system that prevents you from always backtracking to a safe camp somewhere beyond a realistic distance. If you push deep into a dungeon, wilderness or the Underdark you have to rest there. Basically a fatigue system would effectively limit the radius in which you can operate at full strength and set meaningful intervals for resting.

this leads to...

- Redesign the fast travel system. Remove magical teleportation everywhere and only use waypoints for mundane travel on foot so that fatigue can come into play. Every rest spot / campsite should have a waypoint. Disable teleport to base camp and put it on the actual map and as a regular waypoint.

- Optional random encounters in areas that aren't flagged "safe" in the spirit of BG and D&D would also discourage rest spamming. An increasing chance to be found could work if you spam rests, perhaps.

There is simply no beating around the bush with this one. D&D 5e is designed around Long and Short Rests, attrition and fatigue to it's core. Resting can't be removed or changed from 5e without making a complete mess of all the classes. Accepting this will result in a far better game. You can still remove any resting restrictions on casual difficulties where balance isn't as critical to begin with.


Yeah these are honestly wonderful suggestions. There certainly needs to be profound changes to the rest system as it is. They don't really need to make just one specific camp environment and that's it for all eternity, it would make far more sense to have a few specific camp sites in the game. And character progression shouldn't just be when the characters are at camp.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
After lengthy consideration this is what I would like for the resting system in BG3:

- A gold tax in the form of Camping Supplies to discourage long rest spam. Let the game reward you in gold for playing well and saving resources. Tax should be high enough to matter.

- Local resting spots. Abandoned houses, camps, ancient temples, friendly settlements etc. Mostly for immersion to make the world feel real and have a sense of distance and scale. But also for game mechanics, as explained below.

- Fatigue system that prevents you from always backtracking to a safe camp somewhere beyond a realistic distance. If you push deep into a dungeon, wilderness or the Underdark you have to rest there. Basically a fatigue system would effectively limit the radius in which you can operate at full strength and set meaningful intervals for resting. -snip-
This is probably too strict? If I'm reading this correctly, you want
-long resting to only be possible at specific designated sites
-fatigue that limits how far you can walk. How would this work: if you try to return to a distant campsite, at some point your characters just collapse and won't move anymore?? But they will get up and walk as long as you're moving "forward"??

Unless these rules are only present in a hard "Survival" mode, these two options combined will too easily result in softlocks where you're too resource-tapped to press onward and too weak to walk back to the previous campsite. You should always be able to manually walk back to your previous camp (or fast travel point).

I think a better option than "fatigue-limited backtracking" is that there are just more areas where you can only fast travel from a designated camping site. Basically any areas that are not on the overworld. E.g.,
-Hag's Lair: no campsites or fast traveling. If you want to return to the surface, you have to get to the end or climb back up to the surface (I believe this is how it currently works?)
-Entire Underdark: there are ~3 campsites (temple entrance, Myconid colony, shoreline). You need to walk to any of these points to long rest or fast travel back to the surface. Otherwise, no fast travel.
-Goblin Temple: no campsites or fast traveling
The combination of limited campsites + food cost (+optional random encounters) should be more than sufficient to discourage long rest spam.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
After lengthy consideration this is what I would like for the resting system in BG3:

- A gold tax

No

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
After lengthy consideration this is what I would like for the resting system in BG3:

- A gold tax

No
How would you solve the rest spam, then?

And if you want to keep the rest spam or turn D&D into a DOS or Dragon Age style system where you get all resources back after each fight, how would you solve Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics and Druids becoming twice as powerful as the rest of the classes with that "feature"?

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