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Putting a gold requirement on long rest would deter using long rest at all. If you put a fatigue and gold requirement on long rest along with weight for such a item, this would become tedious micromanagement. Along with problematic with requiring X gold per day (along with gold requirements already in the game).

There is already sign of long rest requirement via dialog that characters say out of no where. This leads to possibility of a day night cycle of some sort, I would guess a fatigue system - one that reduces attributes or combat effectiveness. Along with locking long rests to the feature, so it would be time, combat, or checkpoint triggered.

Compiling more ontop of it will lead to a survival game (starvation, camp equipment breaking/repair, exhaustion, etc).

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
- A gold tax
No to a mage tax!

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
After lengthy consideration this is what I would like for the resting system in BG3:
- A gold tax
I would prefer to simply have some sort of in game clock and have one long rest and maybe 2 short rests allowed per day. A gold tax is not necessary and complicates what should already be an easy system (5e).
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- Local resting spots.
Yes. Have a few in different parts of the map similar to DA:I and they become mostly safe after clearing the surrounding areas.
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- Fatigue system
Yes. With a day/night cycle or at least an in game clock, you would know if you could continue traveling to a new safe place or backtrack to an already discovered one.
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- Redesign the fast travel system.
Yes. Fast travel would be allowed between discovered camp areas but the in game clock would advance according to the estimated travel time. The camp model could be the same for most areas (overland camp would be what we have now, Underdark camp would be another model, etc.)
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- Optional random encounters
This could be interesting but perhaps either as a menu option or if camp locations are not used for a while then enemies would respawn near them.

Originally Posted by fallenj
There is already sign of long rest requirement via dialog that characters say out of no where. This leads to possibility of a day night cycle of some sort, I would guess a fatigue system - one that reduces attributes or combat effectiveness. Along with locking long rests to the feature, so it would be time, combat, or checkpoint triggered.

Compiling more ontop of it will lead to a survival game (starvation, camp equipment breaking/repair, exhaustion, etc).
That dialogue seems to only be because someone wants to talk to you at camp. I tried resting every time someone complained about being tired on my last playthrough and it was ridiculous and immersion breaking.

We need a day/night cycle or at least an in game clock. Exhaustion can simply be like it is in 5e, eating and equipment repair would most likely be assumed to be happening during rests. Dialogue should be able to happen anywhere unless it requires a camp trigger, to avoid the feeling that our companions have never done anything requiring exertion in their lives.

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I think instead of a gold tax, it could consume food? There are a lot of food items but it still would act as a resource being consumed?

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Originally Posted by Zarna
We need a day/night cycle or at least an in game clock. Exhaustion can simply be like it is in 5e, eating and equipment repair would most likely be assumed to be happening during rests. Dialogue should be able to happen anywhere unless it requires a camp trigger, to avoid the feeling that our companions have never done anything requiring exertion in their lives.

Then maybe computer D&D just isn't your kind of game.

You can't make a DM rest system in a computer game, so all your doing is making mage tax rules and that seems really brightness challenged.

Day/Night because of the "story" elements of the camp, but otherwise go with an unlimited short rest where everyone can refresh including mage/clerics, but add in that if you rest in a dungeon with live encounters they will patrol and notice and attack or be way harder to fight. The world is already way to static, like you can kill and no one notice and the corps just stay around.

So you can rest in a situation where time isn't a factor, but make it impossible to do a little goblin killing then rest with no time reaction from the goblins.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I think instead of a gold tax, it could consume food? There are a lot of food items but it still would act as a resource being consumed?

^^^This

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by fallenj
There is already sign of long rest requirement via dialog that characters say out of no where. This leads to possibility of a day night cycle of some sort, I would guess a fatigue system - one that reduces attributes or combat effectiveness. Along with locking long rests to the feature, so it would be time, combat, or checkpoint triggered.

Compiling more ontop of it will lead to a survival game (starvation, camp equipment breaking/repair, exhaustion, etc).
That dialogue seems to only be because someone wants to talk to you at camp. I tried resting every time someone complained about being tired on my last playthrough and it was ridiculous and immersion breaking.

We need a day/night cycle or at least an in game clock. Exhaustion can simply be like it is in 5e, eating and equipment repair would most likely be assumed to be happening during rests. Dialogue should be able to happen anywhere unless it requires a camp trigger, to avoid the feeling that our companions have never done anything requiring exertion in their lives.

It generally feels like a unfinished feature, I can't imagine it'll be left like how it is for full release.

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Originally Posted by Miravlix
Then maybe computer D&D just isn't your kind of game.

You can't make a DM rest system in a computer game, so all your doing is making mage tax rules and that seems really brightness challenged.

Day/Night because of the "story" elements of the camp, but otherwise go with an unlimited short rest where everyone can refresh including mage/clerics, but add in that if you rest in a dungeon with live encounters they will patrol and notice and attack or be way harder to fight. The world is already way to static, like you can kill and no one notice and the corps just stay around.

So you can rest in a situation where time isn't a factor, but make it impossible to do a little goblin killing then rest with no time reaction from the goblins.
So you are saying that mages should get to rest every five minutes so they can use all their spell slots in every battle? That seems "brightness challenged" to me. Balancing classes is necessary, especially when we get to higher level spells. I didn't play much of the first two BG but there was a decent rest system in the form of fatigue, seems that it worked fine for computer DnD.

Originally Posted by fallenj
It generally feels like a unfinished feature, I can't imagine it'll be left like how it is for full release.
Agreed and I really hope they modify it a lot.

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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by 1varangian
- A gold tax
No to a mage tax!
The purpose of a fatigue system is to make all classes want to rest.

Systems where only spellcasters need to rest are weird to begin with. Imagine multiplayer where the mages are nagging to rest but the fighters who don't need it are just ignoring it. All classes need an incentive to rest. Fighters and Rogues will want to rest when they have a -4 fatigue penalty to attacks and saves.

Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I think instead of a gold tax, it could consume food? There are a lot of food items but it still would act as a resource being consumed?

I really don't want to micromanage apples, melons and pigs heads. I want the food stuff and other trash loot out of my inventories. Other RPG's don't make you deal with pointless trash like this. Still this would be a better use for the food items than having them double as healing potions. But what if you run out of apples? Do you have to backtrack all the way back to Druid's Grove to buy more before you can rest? If all food was consolidated into one item such as "Camping Supplies" it would be much easier to keep track of available rests.

If long resting doesn't cost you anything, there's no incentive to not rest after every fight and no reward for managing your resources efficiently.

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I wonder if such a "tax" is supposed to work.
The cost cannot be high because the average player who does not spend much time collecting rubbish (easy with very limited lifting capacity) could be easily blocked. If the game can lead to a situation where the player is unable to progress any further, it is definitely a poor project.
However, if the cost is low, the player who collects most of the items will be able to rest unlimitedly, and in such a situation it is definitely a senseless mechanic.

Local rest won't work with current systems either, which is a problem to use fast travel to get back and rest. Even if they disable the ability to teleport from anywhere, it won't matter much, considering that the fast travel points are relatively densely packed. At worst, you will lose an extra minute.

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The problem isn't the current resting system, the problem is that you can rest while the game is time frozen.

They need to implement triggers that changes the world if you start something and they sometimes do, like with the Gith patrol and Laz leave your party and run to the patrol, if you do just about anything else than following her, she gets killed, because time still passed.

Killing the goblin priest might allow for hiding her body and rest, but attacking the front gate and most others in the current design should result in everyone gathering in one single room, making a close to impossible fight.

Also why can't we assassinate the goblin leaders, they all seems like fight that should be impossible to hide. Especially the drow one where 3 gobs ignore the fight even while I stand on top of the wall shooting into the drow and friends in line of sight of them, not to mention in line of sound.

The entire goblin area could use a major overhaul to allow for fighting smaller groups and it being easy to see why it doesn't attract attention of the rest, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T LONG REST in between encounters and that you destroy the drums.

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if i remember correctly in dragon age origins camping is handled where you have to physically get your party to the travel point on the edge of a given map. I think it worked very well. Since you wanted to keep on going so you didn't have to double back and then reenter and w/e. currently in bg3 there's no reason at all to not do a long rest after every single battle. I think the idea to make it waypoint only is a good one BUT they would need to add more waypoints imo. they would have to be placed while keeping in mind that they are the way the player accesses long rests. i.e. in dungeon areas one at the beginning and one at the end kinda thing. They'd have to take out fast travel but walking everywhere in a game without respawning enemies can get boring SO

once you've gotten to camp after you sleep it lets you choose which waypoint you want to come back out at. thus you can only fast travel after a long rest.

it would be really lame if they solved this problem by adding time pressure with the tadpoles. I hate time pressure in games. lemmie take my time! It would also bias the balance towards characters who don't need to rest as often (i.e. away from casters).

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Miravlix
Then maybe computer D&D just isn't your kind of game.

You can't make a DM rest system in a computer game, so all your doing is making mage tax rules and that seems really brightness challenged.

Day/Night because of the "story" elements of the camp, but otherwise go with an unlimited short rest where everyone can refresh including mage/clerics, but add in that if you rest in a dungeon with live encounters they will patrol and notice and attack or be way harder to fight. The world is already way to static, like you can kill and no one notice and the corps just stay around.

So you can rest in a situation where time isn't a factor, but make it impossible to do a little goblin killing then rest with no time reaction from the goblins.
So you are saying that mages should get to rest every five minutes so they can use all their spell slots in every battle? That seems "brightness challenged" to me. Balancing classes is necessary, especially when we get to higher level spells. I didn't play much of the first two BG but there was a decent rest system in the form of fatigue, seems that it worked fine for computer DnD.

Originally Posted by fallenj
It generally feels like a unfinished feature, I can't imagine it'll be left like how it is for full release.
Agreed and I really hope they modify it a lot.

There is a reason the whole "fatigue" system, or "damaged armor" system has basically been removed from 99% of these type of games and MMOs. Most people do not like them, and find them restraining. There really should be no type of limit of long rests per day, considering there is actually no time tracking system (day/night cycle) in the game to begin with. Who knows, maybe they will integrate the whole day/night thing. But I am thinking since it is not integrated by early access, I am not confident it will be added at all. But again, who knows until launch day. I just don't see how anyone can say that mages are somehow OP in this game, considering the bulk of their spells miss. If anything, I have found the melee fighters to be way more OP than the casters.

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Just remove spellslots if there aren't limitation...
The whole concept is based arround resting limitations and the strange concept of "day" and "hours" that exist in the FR and in D&D.

At the moment resting is just 2 "heal" buttons.
It can't be something else than work in progress. Such a great game with such a resting system would be a shame.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Miravlix
Then maybe computer D&D just isn't your kind of game.

You can't make a DM rest system in a computer game, so all your doing is making mage tax rules and that seems really brightness challenged.

Day/Night because of the "story" elements of the camp, but otherwise go with an unlimited short rest where everyone can refresh including mage/clerics, but add in that if you rest in a dungeon with live encounters they will patrol and notice and attack or be way harder to fight. The world is already way to static, like you can kill and no one notice and the corps just stay around.

So you can rest in a situation where time isn't a factor, but make it impossible to do a little goblin killing then rest with no time reaction from the goblins.
So you are saying that mages should get to rest every five minutes so they can use all their spell slots in every battle? That seems "brightness challenged" to me. Balancing classes is necessary, especially when we get to higher level spells. I didn't play much of the first two BG but there was a decent rest system in the form of fatigue, seems that it worked fine for computer DnD.

Originally Posted by fallenj
It generally feels like a unfinished feature, I can't imagine it'll be left like how it is for full release.
Agreed and I really hope they modify it a lot.

There is a reason the whole "fatigue" system, or "damaged armor" system has basically been removed from 99% of these type of games and MMOs. Most people do not like them, and find them restraining. There really should be no type of limit of long rests per day, considering there is actually no time tracking system (day/night cycle) in the game to begin with. Who knows, maybe they will integrate the whole day/night thing. But I am thinking since it is not integrated by early access, I am not confident it will be added at all. But again, who knows until launch day. I just don't see how anyone can say that mages are somehow OP in this game, considering the bulk of their spells miss. If anything, I have found the melee fighters to be way more OP than the casters.

Melee fighters are powerful, full agree. Mages are much more powerful in this game than they are in 5e. You may miss, but you can afford to risk more of your spell slots in one encounter, since you can get them all back at any time outside of combat. Not to mention the ways you can increase your chance to hit, like high ground. Even if your chance to hit still isn't to your liking, there's always Ol' Faithful, aka magic missile. It's a nice way to guarantee some damage is done. If you have an enemy at low health, and you don't want to waste the rest of your party's actions on such a weakened enemy, magic missile will just delete it.

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Originally Posted by footface
Melee fighters are powerful, full agree. Mages are much more powerful in this game than they are in 5e. You may miss, but you can afford to risk more of your spell slots in one encounter, since you can get them all back at any time outside of combat. Not to mention the ways you can increase your chance to hit, like high ground. Even if your chance to hit still isn't to your liking, there's always Ol' Faithful, aka magic missile. It's a nice way to guarantee some damage is done. If you have an enemy at low health, and you don't want to waste the rest of your party's actions on such a weakened enemy, magic missile will just delete it.

Oh yeah, MM is old faithful in this game, the majority of the other spells are trash atm, hopefully they will tweak them by launch.

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It'd be cool to see all of that stuff in the camp actually turn into useful stuff. Plus, how the hell are we returning to the same camp every time, and there's no wagon or anything pulling all of our shit? I know some of our allies and Jergel are waiting there, but still. That's a long walk from the Underdark.

I think they should consider using the current environment and we place our camp anywhere, even being able to explore our current location while in camp mode.

I also think we should have packmules or something to lug all of this shit around. Adding crafting stations to camp and other weird things would be cool, too. Definitely more traders.

Finally, I think there should be more random events. Even minor ones like a wandering trader or a surprise attack.

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Obviously the worm needs to eat your brains out if you sleep too much. A tax?! They need to put a tax on versatility. You want to balance out your character's stats to make him more versatile, but then you realize that versatility means the wizard class. And so you rebel against the system by making a half-orc barbarian and playing him responsibly, even though you can't even do that.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
There is a reason the whole "fatigue" system, or "damaged armor" system has basically been removed from 99% of these type of games and MMOs. Most people do not like them, and find them restraining. There really should be no type of limit of long rests per day, considering there is actually no time tracking system (day/night cycle) in the game to begin with. Who knows, maybe they will integrate the whole day/night thing. But I am thinking since it is not integrated by early access, I am not confident it will be added at all. But again, who knows until launch day. I just don't see how anyone can say that mages are somehow OP in this game, considering the bulk of their spells miss. If anything, I have found the melee fighters to be way more OP than the casters.
Having what amounts to infinite rests means they will have to homebrew even more stuff to balance things in later levels. Already it is pointless to play warlock if you just want to be a spellcaster. In any other game except maybe survival ones I would agree with you that fatigue and broken gear are just a pain, but this one is supposed to be using the 5e framework. I much prefer ranged combat to melee, only use Lae'zel for this but she is somewhat useless with everyone else being ranged. While the lower level spells aren't exactly OP, if used "properly" (high ground, etc) or used mostly for crowd control, they do very well. My wizards barely touch MM, instead the spellcasters use things like Web, Entangle, Spike Growth, and Faerie Fire. Cantrips are used for damage, and even those I use specific ones that work best for the situation (usually Chill Touch or Firebolt.) I don't have the issue that many others seem to have with spells missing because of this and I even have Gale in my party most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
There is a reason the whole "fatigue" system, or "damaged armor" system has basically been removed from 99% of these type of games and MMOs. Most people do not like them, and find them restraining. There really should be no type of limit of long rests per day, considering there is actually no time tracking system (day/night cycle) in the game to begin with. Who knows, maybe they will integrate the whole day/night thing. But I am thinking since it is not integrated by early access, I am not confident it will be added at all. But again, who knows until launch day.
Having what amounts to infinite rests means they will have to homebrew even more stuff to balance things in later levels.

They SHOULD include a time tracking system, but to give you a certain time to complete act 1 before instantly dying via the ceremorphosis into a mindflayer. Say you couldn't complete Act 1 with any character and *had* to play multiple times to see it all because of the time constraint. That way you'd rush to one of the three paths to the towers instead of combing the entire map. It would make sense story-wise as well, and I'm surprised it's not already integrated into the game.

To see that on the full release would be awesome. It would speed up Act 1 (which we've all played to death already) and give you a reason to replay to try another path. It would tie into the story really well if they added sickness later and more dreams or other events about your infection. Again, insta-death if you don't finish Act 1 in time.

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