Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Camping and resting.

I completely agree with your long rest model. But I'm with CJMPinger on short rests.


Then you're playing them wrong. Wizards are by far my favorite D&D class. I've been playing them 40+ years. From the Basic and Expert Box sets, AD&D, 2e, 3e, and 3.5. Wizards are about strategy. Having the right spell at the right time. Managing your spellslots, picking the right spells for your spellbook. Wizards are not suppose to nova every fight, that just turns them into a second rate Sorcerer. They are suppose to control the battlefield, not be blasters. That's for Sorcerers and Warlocks. Don't get me wrong, they can blast too. But that's not what they are best at. That's why I push so hard to get the Abjurer fixed; and am pushing for the Enchanter, Diviner, Necromancer, and Illusionist subclasses. If played right Wizards are the MOST POWERFUL class in D&D, and BG3. Clerics while a lot of fun, burn through their spellslots much quicker, with useful spells like Bless, Aid and Healing Word. When I add a Cleric spell to my Wizard spellbook, I go for the ones that Wisdom doesn't matter as much. Shield of Faith is at the top of the list, and it makes an Abjurer very difficult to bring down. It's an acceptable tempary replacement until the Shield spell gets added in.

Like i said before the cantrips are generally useless unless very specific scenarios happen and even then most other spells do the job better, also the affect to prevent healing rarely matters due to the fact that you would have to constantly stay in range of the enemies you want to inflict with that and thats only for 1 turn, most enemies are to aggressive right now to make use of that and even worse yet is the fact that cantrips do very little damage which is a bummer given that the fireball cantrip is so significantly better since you can either affect environmental oil and grease(or poison) or do great damage to most EA enemies (aka its way more versatile in most scenarios). Eldritch blast is great due to damage and optional push back which does even more damage on top of all the modifiers. The identity of the wizard is being able to learn all spell yes but as i said before how effective is a wisdom roll spell on an intelligence wizard? The same is true for any class, and maybe the spells do overlap but thats obviously intended and clearly is studied by both classes, which is also (from what i can tell) part of the lore. Yet nowhere in the lore that I’ve looked at has there been any mention of getting spells back easier being warlock exclusive, and I don’t see how that would hurt the warlock in any meaningful way? They still have multiple spells other classes can’t get at all which make it plenty unique, and it also is partially a conjuring class given the unique familiars and such which make it even more unique! Wizards are imo the least unique with the only ability (albeit powerful) being to learn any spell, but most spells from other classes (unless you build towards it) are generally useless. Wizards also have the huge downside of have the worst health pool of all classes, and literally no proficiency’s which hamper it even further! Its only strength is the ability to cast amazingly strong lvl 2 spells, no not lvl 1 spells as many of them are weak or situational at best (no not all of them but many), and I’m not suggesting that it should be easy to long rest, however you are in the mindset that there needs to be to many conditions to be able to long rest which negatively affects wizards and clerics the worst which are already a difficult class for new players and casuals to enjoy given their obvious limitations, in short only hardcore players can take true advantage of wizards. My suggestion is to either give all spells slots back on short rest yet make them mandatory or give back some spell slots after a short rest if the previous suggestion was a little to much(but the short rests need something to make them enticing other than healing), currently there are so many ways to heal outta combat that short rests are generally useless for me, but I personally don’t think most people (even you guys I suspect) use anything but maybe the same 3 maybe four spells on the wizard which is sad to say the least as the whole shtick of the wizard is best of all worlds but master of none, yet most people can barely take advantage of that and even fewer can effectively pull it off in a super difficult scenario. You guys need to remember that people (admittedly like me) who are new to dnd games and the lore aren’t here to be limited on the flexibility of our spells and in fact would like more awesome spells that they can cast without worrying that they won’t be able to complete an encounter due to spell restrictions and limitations. Hence why I personally love the warlock but dislike playing the wizard (though the other reason is because they are hard targeted by AI). I do agree that there could be some faults with my suggestion and honestly I don’t think its a fix all but imo it is a step that would placate both sides to this debate and would have optional difficulty/realism settings that would go even further to make long rests like dnd 5e. I don’t think that the other suggestions made are bad for all players, but if they were to be forced on casual or new players they probably would stop playing wizard or possibly even the game as it restricts creativity too much. If the suggestions were optional settings (like the loaded die) then i could see it being added without too much fuss, but I don’t see many players here or anywhere really talking about the restrictions being optional.

If the wizard had more subclasses or spells maybe the class would be better i agree but as it currently stands with the build of game, the wizards are the weakest in my opinion. The one thing they got going for them is basically useless currently (though it might get better but nobody really knows) and they feel like a one and done for the day class for some players which is a bad feeling because in many other games your can go ham with your spells and dish out insane damage each fight, but in BG3 only melee characters in the demo (and the warlock in some cases) deal huge amounts of damage while the cleric and wizard are basically set to heal and occasionally cc’ing enemies due to the limitations of spell slots and the ability to get them back without long resting. This is more then likely going to get better in some way but right now you either have a wizard who does amazing for maybe 1 or 2 fights then is tuckered out for the day, or you have a crowd control only class who dies in a single hit when targeted (which also ruins the cc due to concentration).

Concentration spells do have their problems, hopefully that gets fixed. The Warcaster and Resilient feats will help a lot, when they get implemented. I use mods, so I already have access to them. Warlocks are meant to be single enemy big damage dealers. Sorcerers are meant to cause big damage to large groups of enemies. Clerics buff their allies, inhibit their enemies, and bring up fallen companions when needed. They all can get closer to combat than most spellcasters due to armor and shield proficiencies.

Wizards are meant to control the battlefield. Selectively using their spell slots at the right time. A well place Sleep spell or Grease can change the tide of battle. I'll use Shatter + Sculpt Spells to soften up enemies, and Protect my allies. Web can be very useful to take enemies out of a fight. Also Magic Missile to take down multiple opponents, that my companions have damaged. When the full game releases, and we get 3rd level spells, that is where the Wizard will really shine. Hypnotic Pattern, Fear, Counter Spell, Haste, Slow, Fly, Dispel Magic, not to mention Fireball. More subclasses like Enchanter would be great, but the Wizard is already a very good controller.

Ok, so, I disagree heavily and going to break down why on each part, this is not meant to come off as confrontational, I am just passionate about Wizard and Warlock and I think at least looking at things thoroughly would be good for the overall discussion.


Cantrips are by far not that situational, and even if they were, a wizard can typically end up learning all of them meaning they have a cantrip for every situation. Yes they are supposed to be generally weaker than what you would spend a spell slot on, that is because they are an infinite resource and are meant to be the wizard's basic attack, magic they can do constantly. You are meant to spend a spell slot when you want a little more, the issue is concentration can be broken by a goblin throwing a bottle and missing the player so the optimal damaging spell right now is one and done type spells like Magic Missile. But that still does not devalue cantrips at all. I will go through each one currently in the game (not just wizards) and actually give my opinion on them.

Acid Splash: Has been made into an aoe and can potentially do aoe damage, it is only 1d6, but that 1d6 is aoe at ranged, and it goes off of saving throws, which in some situations is easier than trying to hit AC. Acid damage is not that resisted, and BG3 has added the acid effect for -2AC which kinda buffs this cantrip too much.

Blade Ward: never has been that good of a cantrip EXCEPT for Eldritch Knights who can use it then action surge to do their attacking. On that role it allows the fighter to really soak up damage, which becomes noticeable with how aggressive the AI is.

Chill Touch: Again a saving throw which is generally good. It does 1d8 which is actually decent damage in 5e, equivalent of a longsword. Cold damage is resisted by some enemies but also some enemies are weak to it. Stopping enemies from healing is very noticeable in fights where they will chug some potion or there is a cleric trying to heal them. Undead creatures getting disadvantage is a little situational, but in fights with stronger undead can be very very useful, just so far the undead in the game have been weaker end.

Dancing Lights: This cantrip has been nerfed a little bit, always been one that benefits from player creativity which is hard to translate into a computer game. But at is base, being able to provide light is useful for if a character does not have darkvision.

Firebolt: A reliable cantrip, roll vs AC, 1d10 fire damage, one die better than a longsword. Fire is often resisted but also is often the weakness of enemies. Added ability to ignite flammables is a strong buff. Is really the basic attack of wizards.

Friends: By removing the clause that the target will become hostile this cantrip has been really really buffed and I like it, advanatage on charisma checks is useful and justifies having the Wizard or Warlock be the face sometimes.

Light: Similar to dancing lights though less nerfed, just helpful for if a character lacks darkvision.

Minor Illusion: More useful in tabletop, but being able to distract enemies before getting the jump on them is always useful, with creative use of turnbased, this can be used to enable your rogue.

Poison Spray: Closer range, poison damage, best damage die at 1d12, constitution saves are a good save to force, is just a good damaging cantrip.

Ray of Frost: 1d8 cold damage is good, useful for if saves are less likely to land, reduces target speed which is useful for controlling the battlefield and keeping melee characters from rushing the wizard. Being able to make ice terrain on hitting enemy is arguably too strong a buff, should have been if the wizard targets the ground, similar for fire terrain and firebolt.

Mage Hand: Ok so, right now this cantrip is basically the most OP but in all the wrong ways. I HATE how they implemented it. It shouldn't take concentration. It shouldn't attack enemies. It should be used creatively, and Arcane Trickster Rogues should be allowed to pickpocket and lockpick with it. But as it is, arguably the most OP cantrip by abusing the push ability in BG3.

Shocking Grasp: Arguably a more situational one BUT still very useful. 1d8 lightning damage is good and being able to stop an enemy from taking reactions is a very good get out of this enemy's range ability. Also I think right now it can electrify surfaces, I think that should only be if you target the surface.

True Strike: Basically the worst cantrip in tabletop, but in BG3 it is Very Good if you cast it before a battle. Put this on an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster and get easy advantage for when you start the battle with them if you lack something like highground.

Eldritch Blast: The king of damaging cantrips. 1d10 force is good, really good. Very very few things resist force, and many are weak to it. Warlock riders if gotten normally through warlock make it even better, a warlock can legitimately outdamage a fighter in the right situations just with Eldritch Blast. Being able to push enemies with that rider is strong in the context of BG3 with so many places to push enemies off, slowing them is good, and extra damage is extra damage which starts to add up. And while I could have said for all of these that they get really good at level 5, EB REALLY gets good at level 5 cause you get a second blast that can be targeted anywhere as a separate attack, which also gets all the riders separately. In tabletop, EB is a common reason for people to take a 1-3 level dip in Warlock or Arcane Initiate Warlock (funny people sell their souls for a cantrip), and even without the riders from Eldritch Invocations, this cantrip is arguably the best cantrip a caster can have.

Guidance: Super useful outside of combat. 1d4 to a check can make or break it and I use it constantly. And even in combat it can be helpful, guidance someone so they can do the critical thing they need to do better. Also some may thing it becomes obsolete if you remember the help action BUT it can stack with help action, so if Help is properly implemented this cantrip will be nuts.

Produce Flame: Is basically firebolt and light rolled into one. You lose the light when you throw it, but that makes sense. Honestly, opions on firebolt apply here. 1d8 fire damage good and reliable. A druid without darkvision can basically ignore darkness penalties by using this as the attack.

Resistance: honestly this one can be situational but even then far from useless, use it when you are about to do something that will probably require a saving throw, with surfaces this thing is super useful and helpful.

Sacred Flame: Feels weak on shadowheart, but is not a bad cantrip. Elemental damage is something I like, and radiant is one of the better ones. Essentially doesn't require line of sight as long as in range, you ignore cover. Saving throw is good.

Shillelagh: Makes a club/staff the equivalent of a martial weapon, damage improves. Is just good. Making a weapon magical is good in melee situations.

Thaumaturgy: Arguably the weakest implementation of a spell right now, but still has uses. Friends does what it does but better right now but there are times Intimidate and performance are needed, a cleric or tiefling would use it cause they are not a wizard or warlock, simple as that.

Thornwhip: Fun to use, 1d6 piercing damage is fairly good (a cantrip doing a physical damage is rare), pulling targets is strong and arguably can be op if they are on a highground cause now they fall. Super reliable imo.

The closest to being a bad cantrip is Thaumaturgy, and thats just cause it was implemented poorly. Most all the cantrips in BG3 are genuinely useful in combat and are fun to use if you know how to use them. They are always why a wizard doesn't need to blow all their slots in a fight and while weaker than a slotted spell, they are still strong and remain strong through the whole experience. My main quibble is how some were implemented (and that they need to fix my main Mage Hand), but overall cantrips are in a strong place balance wise, and most don't suffer from the fact concentration is being broken by surfaces constantly.


It hurts class identity greatly. Warlocks get their spellslots because of how they got them. They were granted to them by their patron, magic that was unlocked by a higher being. They are meant to have fewer spell slots, but these spell slots are always the strongest they can be (up to spell level 5), and recharge on shortrest. This means a wizard can cast more spells in a single fight, but a warlock can cast more theoretically in an extended dungeon. By giving other classes the exact same treatment, just to their lowest spell slots, to where they can every shortrest regain them immediately encroaches on the fact the warlock IS the only class that can do that. Wizard can regain a few, and in Tasha's a divine class can regain a few by praying I think, but they can not just regain all level 1 spells. In fact, if every class could blanket regain level 1 spell slots, you would be having a self fulfilling prophecy where cantrips become meaningless until a much higher level, which then ruins all their identities with being to freely cast certain kinds of magic in different ways. And perhaps the biggest reason is balance. If every single class could regain spell slots like a warlock, it would actually make the warlock worse cause everything else they got is to make up for them having fewer spell slots that recharge more often. In fact, it'd make Cleric king, no one would ever need to long rest because they could just level 1 spell heal again and again. It would simply break the game. And if you only extended this priveledge to wizard, it'd still break the balance cause the wizard is balanced around the idea that they don't constantly blow their spells, but being able to constantly blow level 1 spells like fog cloud or grease would essentially destroy combat and we'd be left in the same spot of people resting just so their wizard can ruin combat.
And on conjuring, larian didn't even halfway implement conjuration correctly, which is my favorite school. I play summoners. And right now, summoning is all wrong. While on the surface I like how the imp has its own turn to attack, that is not how it is supposed to go. In fact, arguably post tasha's it is stronger the other way in tabletop. Because you can theoretically attack twice with a familiar and then give the help action to an ally when it gets to the familiar's turn. But that isn't the main point I'll make about conjuration, my main point is that the Wizard already encroached on warlock's style of conjuring. Both are meant to be able to be conjurers and summon creatures, but the main difference is that a warlock's familiar can attack. A wizard's can not. However BG3 gave wizard familiars the ability to attack which really encroached on the warlock's early game identity. While I love that they gave every familiar something special ability wise, being able to attack with them shifts the balance, making it even less appealing to play warlock over the wizard cause the wizard ends up enveloping everything the warlock could do.


Wizards are far from not being unique. being able to inscribe so many spells is huge, they end up having a tool for every situation and the only thing they can not do in normal tabletop is heal. They have the most spell slots of any class, which is also really really big, it means as they level up they can cast more and more, and in the right hands their growth can be exponential. Intelligence and Wisdom saving throws are actually really good at surviving enchantment and illusion spells, which can arguably be the most dangerous to a wizard. No proficiency balance them cause of the sheer amount of spells they get, and in normal 5e many of them can be cast out of combat with no spell slots, meaning once ritual casting is properly added, the wizard will be able to dominate in certain regards. Arcane recovery allows them to recover a few spell slots once a day, and this on its own is actually strong because it means a wizard can immediately in the next fight cast their strongest spell again. And wizard subclasses are generally good but looking at only whats in BG3, they are fairly strong. Evocation is busted because it removes friendly fire, a Wizard can almost always not hurt their ally as long as their isn't a barrel ready to explode or such. A wizard can target their allies and the enemies near them, and blow away only the enemies. That is plain strong and useful. And abjuration is designed to solved that health weakness you cited because it give the wizard an easy source of temp hp, the flat 3 is not a good implementation but with a mage armor cast on, the wizard becomes surprisingly tanky, which enables them to be more frontline and aggressive. The wizard is not weak, and it is unique.

Also arguably Wizard is the easiest class next to Fighter to play. The only confusing thing is needing to learn how spells work, which the wizard is the best class to do that with. They are straightforward, their abilities are strong, and the sheer amount of spells they can get encourages experimentation, and even in BG3, Gale tends to do the best in my team as long as I am aware of his squishiness. A player character made wizard can do even better, and one of the best parts of Wizard is they are easy to pick up yet also have a high skill ceiling cause there are so many ways to use them correctly, and even if a player blasts all spells in one fight, it can be argued they are not playing the wizard too wrongly. And in tabletop the wizard has a lot more going for them, and so does the warlock. In fact, to new players of BG3, I would actually recommend the wizard, either as a player or through Gale, so they can learn D&D spellcasting and how it functions in this gameworld.

Also I won't list out every 1st level spell and how they can be strong, but rest assured. I genuinely believe every 1st level spell that has been added is genuinely useful and has a place in the spell list, and that if they could be cast freely like cantrips without some limitation like ritual casting it could break the game.


The main problem with out of combat healing right now is that food is kinda broken and longresting can be done anywhere at anytime. If you limited longresting, shortresting would become more appealing. If you keep the current spell slot recovery that exists (and maybe add the Tasha's ones for Divine Casters), things would be balanced and it would be appealing to shortrest. Also I'd recommend looking up the spells for 5e on dnd beyond, there is no shortage of spells that may get added to the game, and many of them have very fun and interesting effects. Even on first and second level. I doubt larian will add it, but for the sake of my Warlock I really really want them to add Flock of Familiars just for a fun time of an Imp, quasit, and Pseudragon. Spells are only really restricted by spell slots, but for Wizard even that becomes a non issue as they level. Wizard has a lot, at level 5 they can cast 4 1st 3 2nd and 2 3rd, which when managed correctly can be more than enough for encounters. especially since if they remove surfaces breaking concentration, you will find the main issue of wizard losing their spells all the time go away just a little bit. Cause the best wizard spell imo are the ones that stick around to do even more. And even in BG3 I find that I may only cast one spell on Gale (actually rarely I just use cantrips cause goblins go down really easily). Wizards in dnd are not meant to be like Wizards in other RPGs that have mana bars that recharge over time in combat, they are meant to be just a little limited but slowly push their limits further and further until they approach godhood. Even older dnd worked like that, where there was some limitations on just how much a wizard could cast. But I don't think I ever have felt like I could not complete an encounter, in tabletop or BG 1 2 or 3, because of the limitations on my spells. (In fact in 4e my DM might have hated how I played my Wizard cause my summoning kinda got a little too strong, and I effectively found ways to circumvent or partially nullify the penalties for intrinsic nature meaning I was being a controller while also dealing out damage like a striker...). Also the spells without limitations are the cantrips as I said before, and when we finally get to play with level 5, those cantrips will become a powerhouse and your wizard will feel just a bit closer to how you want a wizard to be.


I will agree the AI kinda focuses the wizard a little too much but as a wizard you have tools to deal with that. I find if I have something cast like Mage Armor, or am concentrating on something like Blur, or even just have the high ground, the AI immediately wants to focus Astarion or Shadowheart. I do think the AI needs to be tweaked with just a bit so they don't always seek out the optimal course of action and instead act like how they would, cause arguably Goblins would initially charge the fighter with armor first cause he looks like a threat, and then only shoot arrows at the wizard once they realize he is in fact a wizard and just firebolted one of them to ashes.


I mean this is a place for discussion, I am not trying to pick your suggestion apart because I hate it and think my solution is the end all be all, cause I don't. Others have pointed out that my suggestions have flaws, and mainly I am seeing the flaws in yours from the perspective of a longtime DnD and RPG players. I actually welcome your perspective, even as I am picking it apart. Also I think by nature the game sadly has to constrain creativity, cause the biggest strength of casters in DnD IS creativity. It is being able to use something in a new way and use your brain to apply the tools you have to overcome problems. For example, something I saw someone else think up that I never would have thought of is to use the Conjuration Wizard Minor Conjuration ability to conjure a piece of the sun. Wizards in the hands of those who love creativity, are by far the most flexible class in table top. Unfortunately a computer can not account for every case like that. For say minor conjuration, I don't think they will implement uses like filling a lock with wax to unlock it or conjuring a piece of the sun to cause damage to everything or conjuring a seemingly rare and valuable artifact to trick someone to let go of their captive. Wizards likely will be hit hardest by the limitations of a computer game, but ultimately I don't think that justifies buffing them because even if a wizard is hurt the worst by it, every class is hurt by it.

Again, wizards are supposed to be weaker in the beginning. We have not gotten to higher levels. When we get to higher levels you will suddenly find that wizards are the MVPs. Enemy wizards at higher levels need to be hit first and killed BEFORE they get their spells off, and you will need to protect your wizard so YOU can get their spells off.

That is the trick to wizards. As they become higher levels, they become VERY powerful, so you need to learn at lower levels how to manage them right so that you are most effective with them later.

And limits HAVE to be in place at lower levels so that you get used to them for higher levels when they will be even more of a must for gameplay.

That's why Im hammering this point about long rest so much now. If you can long rest indefinitely at higher levels, wizards will make all other classes totally pointless.

CJMPinger

I do see where your coming from and I understand this game is based off dnd 5e, however most newer players would have a terrible time trying to figure out wizard nuances and perfect positioning. Which is entirely my point, it should be more new player friendly, yet most of the time (especially with me) my wizard, gale, never even last through out the whole fight without constantly micromanaging his position with my warlock protecting him 99% of the time by knocking enemies away when he runs outta spells, and as i said before maybe that will change when new spells and/or subclasses get added but as it currently stands they are more of a liability, especially since concentration ruins a lot of the fun spells that make my melee fighters and warlock happy (lookin at you fog wall).

Also, cantrip wise you kinda of just proved one of my points (and yes i know they are meant to be weaker and they are, that wasn’t my main point). Chill touch has to be constantly spammed to have any affect which is a loss in damage (chill touch is a d8 while firebolt is a d10 with the ability to target surfaces), poison spray you need to be right in their face which is not where most (if not all) wizards should avoid, and ray of frost can make a surface similar to grease but requires water or grease to be there and even then the enemy can just roll a saving die and then you just lost 1/3 of the effect of your spell. Also for reference I didn’t really consider druid a spellcaster class as most of the cantrips are buff based not damage based, which is what I meant by relatively useless in a fight spell wise, but even then firebolt does the most damage behind eldritch blast (which i already admitted was one of the best cantrips along with firebolt) and also creates surfaces that are difficult for enemies to avoid causing 1 d4 of extra damage making it still one of the best cantrips in the game damage wise, while thorn whip is only situationally useful if an enemy is on a ledge. I personally don’t count non-damage cantrips as the most useful because for all intents and purposes damage is usually the way to go unless your setting up an elaborate trap which as i said earlier is done way better by lvl 1 & 2 spells, not to mention that from what I’ve seen most races have dark vision or are mostly built towards melee if they don’t (the exception being humans) making dancing lights useless on most casters that i have played excluding gale/wyll. Conversation buffs are mainly for the face of the party, aka the warlock, and are more useful on the warlock as they already get their spells back from short rests as is.

My final point is that making lvl 1 spells more accessible through short rests whether fully or partially would simply make wizards more fun, however i do concede the fact that making concentration less annoying as a whole would also do wonders, but i still strongly believe that most lvl 1 spells are hampered by the niche areas that they are actually useful in, and even then damage is usually preferable to me given the enemies usually pass the saving throws then proceed to one shot my wizard. I don’t know if thats an intentional thing in the game but I rarely get the enemies saving throws to fail (except on my warlock who is my current favorite). Thats why i would like wizards to have a semblance of the power wielded by warlocks or something possibly to make them more enjoyable and less of a liability (though it is early access so things will probably change). I know your passionate about wizard and you don’t want the balance broken but i hope you understand the frustration (as a newer player) that i have towards the current wizard iteration. It feels one offy and lame to run outta spells after one fight (maybe two if you play your cards right) and then be stuck firebolt spamming till gnolls run home. I would also like to say that some spells are only super powerful due to the option of throwing someone off a cliff but that won’t always be an option and in the later game I suspect that those spell will be used the least if creatures like the bulitte are to be the norm!

As i said my solution probably is just a fantasy for new players and a dread for dnd 5e players, but i think there is a middle ground to be had. As some said and i agree short rest should not be limited (by adding stipulations) at all, even in the table top dnd 5e they aren’t so why would they do that in baldurs gate? However I disagree that long rests need 4 or 5 conditions or stipulations, 1 or optionally 2 would be plenty and most of the suggestions above are great but i would limit it to 1 with the option of more instead of forcing new players to have to deal with the headaches that would inevitably ensue. If this wasn’t the case i would only use melee classes, warlocks and maybe clerics/paladins and forgo all casters who are limited in that sense, and instead heal from the plentiful amounts of food and potions that eventually come my way. I don’t want that though because it would be a repeat of pillars of eternity, and while i loved the world and my character in that game, the wizards were the worst thing I’ve ever seen in a video game since skyrim (after the neutering of the spell system from oblivion).

Yeah, unfortunately when a person is used to video games where wizards don't have many limits, playing a wizard in D&D is a bit of a learning curve.

But honestly, it is the most tactical class in the game. You have to play your wizard wisely. It is vitally important to the entire game that wizards be sufficiently limited. If they aren't, im telling you backstab nerfs and high ground nerfs will seem like child's play to a wizard at higher levels who is always able to cast all their spells every battle, and trust me based on experience, the game becomes real boring when wizards aren't limited.

You have to get used to buying and using scrolls, potions, etc. That is the WHOLE point of those items. Wizards are the ONLY class who are supposed to be able to use mage scrolls and clerics are the only ones who can use cleric scrolls (some exceptions apply like Druid, Eldritch, Warlocks). Their purpose is to give spellcasters more spells then their slots allow. Long rests are NOT supposed to be used so much to recover slots so that you will use scrolls as a supplement.

So again, they HAVE to limit long rests not only for story but also to give value to scrolls, potions, etc. I know you might not like it, but the whole game is ruined, literally, if they don't.

GM4Him

I agree there needs to be some restrictions to long resting as overpowering everything isn’t even remotely fun, i say this as a dark souls veteran, but I don’t think 4 or 5 restrictions that are non optional is a good idea as it would bend the pendulum way too far in the other direction. However 1 or maybe 2 (with this one being optional) wouldn’t be so bad and might even make some of the game more fun story wise and immersion wise, but i do think there needs to be an incentive to short rests as well. As inexperienced as i am i do think maybe a couple lvl 1 spell slots would be okay, though i would prefer all of them, and I personally think healing through food and short rests could be toned down slightly to compensate for such a buff. Or maybe there could be an entirely different buff to them like a well rested bonus to charisma checks and saving throws for awhile (I’m not sure how long as it could be OP if its too long). This would be cool too and would also help wizards defensively and possibly make other classes less annoying to use in conversations with charisma checks without the need of spells, indirectly making spellcaster who don’t wanna waste spell slots have multiple options. Idk though honestly, those are just my thoughts and i hope the game turns out to be more fun in the late game with wizards, even now i use gale trying to figure out how to keep him alive without putting him 5 miles away from the fight, and i have no doubt that my favorite class (Drow Warlock) is gonna be even stronger come the full release and I can’t wait!

I have been playing Icewindale recently, one of the older d&d games. My elf mage at level 1 had 4 hp and the ability to cast 2 spells. After using those spells, all that remained was to throw daggers at foes until I could long rest. By level 4, I still only had maybe 4-6 spells I could use. No unlimited cantrips. Her hp was still only 12.

In BG1 and 2, I played a sorcerer. You know, they really need to get the sorcerer class out for BG3 soon. That might help peoples perceptions of spellcasters. The sorcerer differs from the wizard in that you get more spell slots but the tradeoff is you can't learn as much of a variety of spells.

By level 10, my sorcerer had like 45 HP and could hurl tons of spells each day. I was casting fireball on everything, and I made him more of a summoned, wiping the floor with enemies left and right and summoning wyverns and goblins and ogres and such to fight for me.

But in those games, every long rest in the wild was a chance random encounter. That's how they limited it. The only safe place was an inn at a city.

I don't particularly care how they limit long rests. They just need to. So far the best methods that I've read are either:

1. Story Timed Events, as I detailed in previous posts
2. Prerequisites, as Ive detailed in previous posts
3. Random encounters, as many have also suggested
4. Severely limit fast travel and make only certain areas rest zones

The problem with 1 is people don't want to feel limited or rushed. People are resisting it because they want to be able to spam long rest as much as they can without consequences.

The problem with 2 is if you really need to long rest in order to beat a boss, and you don't meet the requirements, oh well. You're out of luck.

The problem with 3 is that it is pointless unless you severely restrict fast travel. Otherwise, yoy can always annoyingly fast travel to camp and then long rest and then fast travel back. All this does is make you do more work for no reason.

The problem with 4 is that fast travel is nice and really cut down on senseless running through map locations you've already cleared. If you restrict fast travel, it just annoys players rather than prevents long resting. Instead of fast travel to a rest zone, now they have to manually run there. This was an annoying aspect, frankly, of the older games.

My favorite is 1. My second is 2. With 1, you can have more diverse gameplay with different endings and rewards based on how many long rest you use. 2 is more like Solasta, where I got the idea, and it could prove annoying if they do it wrong. I don't really care too much for 3 and 4.

Most of those encounters really weren't that dangerous. I've found scroll availability to be more limiting when playing BG1 for the first time, considering the original didn't have the sorcerer class and high level scrolls were rare. But once you find a few wands, it doesn't matter anymore, because both BG1 and BG2 let you recharge wands in shops, so mages don't have to rely on their spellbooks for offensive spellcasting.

Actually, the amount of scrolls littering the world of BG3 actually make the worry of spellslots mostly irrelevant cause a Wizard can always opt to use a scroll, especially for spells they don't have prepared, making them very flexible. Also I tend to use Scrolls exclusively on my Warlock and Wizard cause I don't like everyone else being able to use em.
Ultimately, if the volume of scrolls stay the same, most players can really play a spellslinging wizard who constantly casts without feeling like they need to rest after every combat or feeling that with a restriction on longresting they can basically never cast spells.

Exactly. That is the point of scrolls and wands. So they need to restrict long rests now and guide players to use items more so that later in the game we aren't experiencing OP wizards.

Clerics can also become OP in later levels if allowed to long rest infinitely. Once they learn really powerful healing and protections and even Raise Dead...

I like how it is now with no restrictions. They can balance it so that nothing is too OP without adding restrictions.

Not later in the game. Im telling you, they might as well throw D&D out the window if they'd don't do something to limit long rests.

Yeah I am with you. Personally, I think the QR system is fine. I am not a fan of any artificial limitations to how you play a single player game. I am perfectly fine with a game being 'Based" off of 5e and not meeting every little rule. I am ok with the idea of separating companion convos from camp, but not with telling me when I can pop to camp to either save for the evening, or rest to open my abilities again. Not to mention, I think they should make this game to cater to the widest possible audience, I am sure there will be mods within the first week out there for the hardcore D&D enthusiasts.

This thread is not talking about "a little rule" lol.
Long and short rests are the base of the entire game's action economy (spellslots, features recovery and so on).

The system is broken without a consistent resting mechanic and when we'll have a decent number of spellslot (and powerfull spells/features,...) at higher level, it's nearly gonna be like playing DoS without any cooldown^^

Thank you Maximuus. That is the whole point of me saying you might as well throw 5e out the window entirely if you don't limit long and short rests. It is just that vital to everything.

If you don't, just throw out potions, scrolls, wands, and every class other than wizard because they will ALL be useless especially later.

GM4Him

I agree with your number 2 solution, however I don’t believe 4 or 5 restrictions are necessary for balance, small steps go a long way, a possible solution is 1 with the option of more for dnd 5e fans. This would slightly rebalance the based game for everyone and would allow dnd 5e players to get that fun dnd tabletop kind of feeling that I assume there is. Also people need to remember that short rests are currently useless and are also in some need of help, i have actually switched my mind on it recently and think that a well rested bonus would go a long way to make short rests more useful. But thats just my opinion, I haven’t seen many other comments about short rests fixes.

The main reason they are useless I feel is because of how easy it is to Long rest. Their usability I think would rise drastically just by what you said, a few small steps to limit long resting.