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I'm having a hard time understanding why you have such an established stationary camp and that the companions that aren't actively coming with you are willing to wait there. Every one of them has expressed urgency at finding someone to deal with the tadpole problem - why are they content to just sit around and do nothing while a couple of you go off and do stuff?

Laezel, for example, is dead set on finding those gith on the road - it's practically the only thing that she talks about. If you tell her to wait at camp, why doesn't she just storm off and go find them on her own? Or recruit whoever else is standing around camp to go with her?

Wyll is hyper-focused on helping the refugees and dealing with the goblins. Why is he content to sit around camp waiting for you? Why doesn't he just say "you know where to find me" and head back to help train refugees to fight?

The whole concept of setting down roots with a semi-permanent camp just doesn't work with the urgency that we are presented with for solving the tadpole problem and the fact that they're almost certainly going to have to venture far and wind to find that solution. These characters need to be nimble, not fortified.

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Because there is a limit on companions in the party? In the future, there will be even more companions, will you try to take 8-10 characters to the party? Because "well, they can't just stand in the camp." This is a game, you can choose who will go with you, and you will have to choose anyway. It can also increase the number of playthroughs of the game, as it was in DOS 2. We're lucky our companions don't die here after the first act, not yet...


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All the characters express some level of agitation for being dismissed to camp - they all want to be part of the active party. So I wouldn't say they are content.

It's very much implied that none of these characters can achieve their aims alone, including the tadpole and personal quests. If you don't recruit Lae'zel, she actually will attempt to meet the Gith on her own. And when you do recruit her, she's completely out of her element. When you enter the Grove she sometimes mentions that the player character stands out less than she does - I'd imagine her interrogation of Zorru would attract attention if she didn't have a party of Baldurians around her letting it happen.
As for Wyll, when you have a scene with him at the Goblin Camp, you realize he has a war of motivations that probably keeps him passive. Where your input helps steer him into action.

While I could go on about reasons in character why they'll sit at camp and wait, the easiest answer is probably this: all the characters lack an element of initiative as companions to allow the player character to assume the leader role de facto. Hence why they are also written to having a reason for sticking with the group when they aren't played as an Origin Character.

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I'm suggesting that companions that I'm not prioritizing should go and do other things. Maybe I can find them out in the world doing that thing and have them join me again later. Maybe they died trying to do the thing they wanted to do and I find their body in the road and now I can't recruit them anymore - the price I pay because we had different priorities. If there are tons of potential companions out there, I have no issue with some of them dying or vanishing on their own path because I neglected them. Maybe some of the NPCs will sit patiently and wait, or can be convinced that my plan will work better in the long run and their moment to shine is coming. Maybe some of them are content to sit for a while, but I have to work to keep them there. Maybe I can send them off on some side-task while I'm doing the main thing.

There are lots of possibilities here. Lots of type-A characters with things to do, sitting quietly at my camp for days on end because a complete stranger asked them to makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by AvatarOfSHODAN
All the characters express some level of agitation for being dismissed to camp - they all want to be part of the active party. So I wouldn't say they are content.

It's very much implied that none of these characters can achieve their aims alone, including the tadpole and personal quests. If you don't recruit Lae'zel, she actually will attempt to meet the Gith on her own. And when you do recruit her, she's completely out of her element. When you enter the Grove she sometimes mentions that the player character stands out less than she does - I'd imagine her interrogation of Zorru would attract attention if she didn't have a party of Baldurians around her letting it happen.
As for Wyll, when you have a scene with him at the Goblin Camp, you realize he has a war of motivations that probably keeps him passive. Where your input helps steer him into action.

While I could go on about reasons in character why they'll sit at camp and wait, the easiest answer is probably this: all the characters lack an element of initiative as companions to allow the player character to assume the leader role de facto. Hence why they are also written to having a reason for sticking with the group when they aren't played as an Origin Character.
This is a little closer to what I'm thinking. But having a big camp still feels pretty weird. I could see maybe setting up a couple of tents in the grove and just having the other companions that aren't coming along with you waiting where you found them (or some other place that's more appropriate to the story).

Down the road, when there are more companions available and we have 10 characters sitting around waiting all the time, what's to stop them from all going off together and doing something. What's so special about me that anyone cares about my opinion? Why would Wyll wait on me in particular, rather than try to work with Gayle? Why would Lae'zel wait for me in particular, rather than grab whatever bruisers in the group seem the most useful and receptive?

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I think the OP raises some valid points, albeit from an immersion point of view. There will be always be an element of this quandary in a party based CRPGs ie. why do other party members hang around waiting but it is inherently more so a problem in BG3 when you consider the main hook of the storyline which revolves around the ticking time bomb of the tadpole inside our heads. Time is apparently of the essence yet they will still wait around indefinitely...I couldn't tell you how many days pass because there is no truly accurate calendar in BG3 (the journal counts days, but you can long rest and it doesn't affect the days in your journal). It just makes for a narrative that creates all sorts of issues in this respect.

I'm not really sold on the concept of the other companions lacking initiative; I just think it is poor storytelling. In previous BG games if a companion felt your goals didn't align with theirs they simply left, which makes far more sense.

Regarding characters dying while doing their own thing, Wyll can die the very first time you encounter him at the battle outside the gates of the Druid Grove. I always thought that it was rather daft that one of your potential companions can die before you even get the chance to meet him properly. Maybe it has changed since I last played, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
I think the OP raises some valid points, albeit from an immersion point of view. There will be always be an element of this quandary in a party based CRPGs ie. why do other party members hang around waiting but it is inherently more so a problem in BG3 when you consider the main hook of the storyline which revolves around the ticking time bomb of the tadpole inside our heads. Time is apparently of the essence yet they will still wait around indefinitely...I couldn't tell you how many days pass because there is no truly accurate calendar in BG3 (the journal counts days, but you can long rest and it doesn't affect the days in your journal). It just makes for a narrative that creates all sorts of issues in this respect.

I'm not really sold on the concept of the other companions lacking initiative; I just think it is poor storytelling. In previous BG games if a companion felt your goals didn't align with theirs they simply left, which makes far more sense.

Regarding characters dying while doing their own thing, Wyll can die the very first time you encounter him at the battle outside the gates of the Druid Grove. I always thought that it was rather daft that one of your potential companions can die before you even get the chance to meet him properly. Maybe it has changed since I last played, I don't know.

Well, the character should know that your goals are really different. So Gale leaves if you don't give him magic items, and Will leaves if you destroy the grove. Is it logical? Yes. The rest leave only if you really mess up your relationship with them, which, again, shows your priorities. By the way, if you save the grove, but do not take Will with you, then he is very offended and speaks out about it at the party.

Perhaps the first act is not enough to make your relationship deteriorate so much.

Killing the characters so quickly is the worst solution. This is what was in DOS 2 and this is what I didn't like. It's nice to change your companion sometimes. It's always been like this, in games like Dragon Age, PoE, or Tyranny. Some companions just sit and wait for you. This is a common game mechanic.


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I'm not talking about characters leaving because you're pushing them away - I'm talking about them making their own choices because you haven't given them any reason to be there. There's nothing special about your character in this game. Sure, you want to deal with the tadpole, but there are a whole bunch of people in the same situation - the game gives us very little explanation for why they don't form their own group and leave you sitting on your hands.

In Torment: Tides of Numenera, when any recruitable characters aren't actively in your party, they go do things that make sense in their lives. They go home or they go to work or they go hang out at the docks and look for a ship to travel on. They have lives outside of just following you around, and they live them. And if you change your mind and want them to come with you again, you can go find them and try to recruit them. And when they are following you around, they have a reason to follow you specifically.

In BG3, there are a bunch of characters in a similar situation, but none of them has any reason to follow you rather than, say Lae'zel, Shadowheart, or Astarion. The idea of them sitting around like puppies, waiting for you to come home is ridiculous. They don't feel like characters trying to live their lives; they feel like mercenaries that you've hired to guard your camp. Except mercenaries get paid, so they actually have a reason to be there.

The issue of the camp is separate, but not unrelated. There's no story reason for it to exist, but plenty of reasons for it not to.

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From what they said the last time. Your party could be set after Act 1, so you don't have to worry them staying at camp playing uno.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
I'm not talking about characters leaving because you're pushing them away - I'm talking about them making their own choices because you haven't given them any reason to be there. There's nothing special about your character in this game. Sure, you want to deal with the tadpole, but there are a whole bunch of people in the same situation - the game gives us very little explanation for why they don't form their own group and leave you sitting on your hands.

In Torment: Tides of Numenera, when any recruitable characters aren't actively in your party, they go do things that make sense in their lives. They go home or they go to work or they go hang out at the docks and look for a ship to travel on. They have lives outside of just following you around, and they live them. And if you change your mind and want them to come with you again, you can go find them and try to recruit them. And when they are following you around, they have a reason to follow you specifically.

In BG3, there are a bunch of characters in a similar situation, but none of them has any reason to follow you rather than, say Lae'zel, Shadowheart, or Astarion. The idea of them sitting around like puppies, waiting for you to come home is ridiculous. They don't feel like characters trying to live their lives; they feel like mercenaries that you've hired to guard your camp. Except mercenaries get paid, so they actually have a reason to be there.

The issue of the camp is separate, but not unrelated. There's no story reason for it to exist, but plenty of reasons for it not to.

Of the ones who head to the camp, I think many/all of them have some pretty good reasons to follow you right now.

1) Laezel, Wyll, Shadowheart, Astarion, Gale, any future Origin Companions: You are all in the same situation, there is an Illithid tadpole in your heads. You are pooling your resources and abilities looking for a cure and overcoming stuff and all of you are far from home. The player character over time becoming the defacto leader of this oddball group brought together by shared experience and the need to overcome this overwhelming issue as a group. If one of you finds a cure they all will want it and working as a group is beneficial so the camp is acting as your home base.

Not Companions but people that can be in the camp as far as I know:

2) Volo: You saved his life and he is a man enthralled by researching monsters and by journeying with you he can see a lot more.

3) Halsim: A druid who is very knowledgeable of your very affliction and has shown himself willing to leave the grove.

4) Minthara: It is a war effort and a sort of alliance between the two of you to further the goals of the Absolute.

5) The talkative Skeleton: You kinda woke him up and there are hints to his identity, also the possibility of him having to follow whoever answers the question satisfactory via prophecy or whatever magic keeps him the way he is.


Originally Posted by Hilarian
From what they said the last time. Your party could be set after Act 1, so you don't have to worry them staying at camp playing uno.

This concerns me cause I do not want people who are not in my party during X event to die like in another game I won't mention cause spoilers. BG series tends to have large amounts of party members available, and in past games they'd go off to the place they like to or just stay where dismissed, and I want to be able to interact with a large amount of characters and not be locked to the same 3 companions the entire game with personality less mercs being my only other option. So right now the camp serves that function of being a place where I can interact with a bunch of party members.

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It would be nice to have companions urging to join us aggain and follow their goals ...
Maybe after XY(10?) long rests warning about leave if we dont help them ... and after another XY(20?) actualy leave us.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
It would be nice to have companions urging to join us aggain and follow their goals ...
Maybe after XY(10?) long rests warning about leave if we dont help them ... and after another XY(20?) actualy leave us.

Tbh, while I don't want hard penalties like them leaving, it would be nice for them to actually have multiple types of dialogue for the severity of how long they are waiting and some penalties like approval loss for constantly not doing the thing for them after a point or some kind of consequence.

Something I just realized tangentially, the camp could feel more justified story-wise if there was some mechanic of them doing something in or around camp. So it doesn't feel like they aren't doing anything and instead it feels like even when not fighting they have a place in the group, whether "useful" or something that is them. Like maybe each companion could have an action they just do instead of standing all the time, like Gale could be seen cooking or researching, Laezel working on equipment maintenance or guard duty, Wyll could be standing guard on lookout or drinking, Shadowheart gathering water or praying, and Astarion could be something that could maybe suit his nature like skinning and draining blood of the meat a future ranger companion could hunt. Future bard companion could be playing music or singing or such, druid could be tending to plants, barbarian carrying things. And if we get more than origin companions they could possibly do other things that make them really feel like they have a place there. Like little things that is more than them just standing in front of a small tent and maybe holding an item. This could extend to others like volo could be sitting down and writing his latest notes. To draw a similarity, like the Ship in Mass Effect 2 where each companion had a ''space' they loitered in and would do some task for the crew, though some just stayed around cause they were only muscle, others acted as an important researcher or maintained the ship weapons, and all of them made that space feel lived in by specifically that character.

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+1 , i agree that it would make a lot more sense for Astarion to try and reach BG on his own, Wyll to try and fight the goblins by himself, etc. when you refuse them i your party.

Possible solution would be to :

a) write some new dialogue in which you give them convincing arguments as to why they would give up everything and just wait for you somewhere at undisclosed camp location. Disadvantage would be that this messes up other story elements as it would necessitate introducing some greater force or important new narrative element pertaining to the playable character.

b) and this is my preferred solution, simply make them continue their life as any real person would do and make them appear again at later stages in places/situations that make sense, eg Lazael at the bridge with other Giths discussing something about the creche, Astarion either in BG or on the way there or while sneaking into your camp to feed, etc. This would also give players a second shot to reevaluate if they want hese npc's as party members + it would also open up narratives to make it believable that they join you : e.g. if you initially refuse Wylls request to kill the goblins but you meet him again when he's scouting the goblin camp or after you attacked them it gives an opportunity for him to join you again.

As others have said, as of now, it makes absolutely no sense that these NPC's would give up their own resources (i guess they all have a 'life' in the game world , so why would Astarion not simply attempt to travel to BG alone to see if he can find a powerfull cleric or ask one of his friends in BG, same for SH: why wouldn't she simply look for other Shar followers and try to solve her issue with their help, etc. etc.).

If the recruitable NPC's would have been framed as coming from other planes/far away it would make sense to stick with whom they have, given they are supossed to be within reasonable travel limits from where they actually live, have jobs, friends, and what not, it seems a bit unplausible that they're not simply "screw you guys, i'm going home" instead of sticking with people they don't know, nor like , etc.

In general, however, I am worried as this seems to connect to the discussions on day/night cycle and more precisely the immersion killing observation that NPC's don't have a 'real' life on their own but are simple 'living statues' that don't move, eat, drink, work, whatever. Maybe that's to stay true to muh 'TaBlEtOp ExPerIenCe' where NPCs are simple figurines on a map, who knows. I hope this will not be the case in the full release in any case.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
, barbarian carrying things.

That's all we are to you, huh


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They already do this if you don't invite them to your group. The game gives you a chance to get to know everyone, if you don't want that, then just don't invite them. Shadow itself comes in grove. I am sure now Shadow is most developed character, she talks more, she has more questions and she goes wherever she wants. Other characters are still being worked on, but I'm sure they won't just stand in the same place.

As for the "special cases", well, conditionally, Gale and Astarion read books, Shadow prays, and Lae drinks. They have animations for this, but you don't get any benefit from it. And it's fine.

If you don't want them to just stand there, then just don't invite them, one day you'll find them somewhere else. You offer the same thing, but in a more difficult way, with a lot of extra work for developers and voice actors, because it will add additional dialogues which makes no sense...


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my point would be that there is a need for extra dialogue anyway to make it believable that companions would join our group and be content with doing what the player says instead of pursuing their own lives/quest.
Simply having the shared tadpole/nautiloid experience , could be a starting point but seems also quite tentatively that all the companions would give up their previous lives, experiences, resources, goals because of this 'shared experience'. Especially given the rather anti-social tendencies of the "evil" EA companions. A simple way would be for larian to give the PC a small but seemingly important advantage right from the start by letting them find something on the nautiloid that the others don't and which legitimizes the PC as group/party leader over the other companions.

I think the fighter stronghold quest in BG2 is a good and simple example of how to address this, most recruitable NPC's can be found in a tavern, however, if they approach you with a supposedly 'urgent' quest request and you decline, they will not just wait there but already proceed to a different location. Especially in the case of Astarion it seems weird that he would simply wait by a campfire for people he probably despises and feels are inferior to him to do whatever instead of just traveling to BG by himself to study his newfound powers and/or go back to his luxurious life... Same for SH, why would she care to wait for you instead of trying to rejoin her shar cult, same for the gith who couldn't care less about non-giths, same for Gale - why doens't he go find his magic food by himself instead of waiting for it at camp and risk auto-explosion, and same for Wyll who is supposedly well able and willing to adventure on his own.

Just trying to point out where the narrative lacks as of now in the hopes it can help someone to make it better, not my problem to think about if and how these things can be fxed, that's what I payed Larian for, right ?


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It kinda makes sense for a group of people who happen to share the same problem (a tadpole) to stick together, especially when other folks will perceive them upon finding out about their condition. For exmaple, there are many reasons why the characters would agree just to wait for the MC in the camp.

Originally Posted by SerraSerra
Especially in the case of Astarion it seems weird that he would simply wait by a campfire for people he probably despises and feels are inferior to him to do whatever instead of just traveling to BG by himself to study his newfound powers and/or go back to his luxurious life...

I don't think he despises his companions or thinks them inferior. He believes that every man is out for himself in the end, so he is self-centered, opportunistic and careful about forming long-lasting connections for his own safety. He is still exploring his newfound freedom, while being really, really bad at hiding his true nature for long. If the MC is fine with him being a vampire and lets him drink blood of their enemies, Astarion knows he is doing better than he expected. He is accepted, he can feed freely and he doesn't have to bother with playing the perfectly normal, totally-not-a-vampire-spawn elf. Additionally, he doesn't have a plan for now, except for "get rid of Cazador", and even though he isn't impressed by the MC's promise to deal with Cazador, he hopes that at least the MC will stay alert and give him a heads-up. So, if the player doesn't do everything they can to max out Astarion's disapproval, he has many reasons to stick around.


Originally Posted by SerraSerra
Same for SH, why would she care to wait for you instead of trying to rejoin her shar cult, same for the gith who couldn't care less about non-giths

For Shadowheart staying at the camp means more time to explore her mystery box safely. It maybe makes sense for her to disappear from the camp (if not in active party) and then come back without explaining anything, since she is already the most tight-lipped character in the group, but not storm off completely. With Lae'zel though...On the one hand, she would have started looking for the creche as soon as she learnt about the githyanki patrol. On the other hand, she isn't familiar with Faerun and there are many hints that she is not 100% confident about the creche. She keeps talking about it, while her interactions with her kin and her anxiousness afterwards gives us a clue that something is off. Maybe Lae'zel is also open to alternatives (Halsin, etc), but because she looks down on Faerun and other races, she won't say it out loud.


Originally Posted by SerraSerra
same for Gale - why doens't he go find his magic food by himself instead of waiting for it at camp and risk auto-explosion, and same for Wyll who is supposedly well able and willing to adventure on his own.

Given that Gale is covered in bandages in his official art and Auntie Ettel mentions him rotting alive, maybe he was meant to be a powerful wizard with a slowly deteriorating health. A guy like that can't just brave into the ruins and goblin forts on his own. That's why if you don't give Gale artifacts, he resorts to making a deal with the devil.

In general, almost every party member has a skeleton in the closet and kinda bonds with the MC upon revealing it. If the MC is understanding and doesn't push them away, they see benefit in traveling together and see no problem with staying at camp. At least, for now.


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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Tbh, while I don't want hard penalties like them leaving...
Im not quite sure if that even could be called penalty ... after all, 20 long rests mean you let them just sit there and wait for almost a month. laugh


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I actually really like hard penalties as long as they make sense. Choices should have consequences. Not everyone is going to be happy with you and they will tell you about it if you do a thing that you don't like. I just think that leaving them sitting idle at a camp that shouldn't exist when there are things they could be doing should count as a thing they don't like.

I'd really love to see something like, you get to the blighted village and there are multiple different paths you can take. Everyone that's following you needs something to do, so you take your party of four to go check out the path to the north while you send Lae'zel and a few more people in your group to check out the path to the west. You meet back at the village in a few days and discuss the things you've discovered. This means a few things:
-Everyone in your group is always occupied, whether they are coming along with you or not.
-You won't be the first one to explore some areas, because you're sending other party members off to do that. They might handle things differently than you would. So it's important to decide what you want to handle personally and what you want to entrust to someone else (and who you're entrusting it to).
-If one of your party members feels strongly about going in a particular direction (e.g. Lae'zel towards the Gith patrol or Wyll towards the goblins), they can bring it up with you when you're making that decision. How you take their feelings into consideration might impact how effective they are or whether or not they're willing to keep following you. On the other hand, if you give them too much control, maybe they try to take over.

These characters may have their reservations or their insecurities, but none of them seems content to sit around and do nothing for days on end. Let's give them interesting things to do.

Ultimately, this is for another thread most likely, I want my decisions to take options away from me. I want to have to commit to a path and have there be repercussions if I change my mind. If all options are available to me at all times, the game is going to get boring and samey.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
I actually really like hard penalties as long as they make sense. Choices should have consequences.
Yeah, talking about penalties is thinking in game terms, whereas talking about consequences is thinking in story terms. In this type of game I prefer to latter for immersion's sake.

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