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So who do you think the dream NPC is? I think it is
Shar the goddess of darkness there are too many clues in BG3 that points out that the dream NPC is Shar if you let the green hag try to remove the tadpole she stops when she realize that the tadpole has been tampered with shadow magic and Shar is the goddess of the shadow weave that's why she is able to talk to your MC in dreams I don't think Shar is with the Absolute the last thing I will add is in the first dream the dream NPC calls your MC chosen which only a deity would call your MC that deities can have chosen's but not that many deities have a chosen the most famous deity that has chosen's is Mystra but even if it is not Shar I do think the dream NPC is a deity


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
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Given what the prerequisite for the dream scenes happening is, it is fairly obvious who/what the NPC is. The companions realize that as well and even tell you that...

Last edited by DiDiDi; 28/01/21 09:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by DiDiDi
Given what the prerequisite for the dream scenes happening is, it is fairly obvious who/what the NPC is. The companions realize that as well and even tell you that...
Oh okay I have only watched BG3 on YouTube can you tell me what the companions says about the dream NPC?


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
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It's the tadpole in your/their head. You don't get the scenes (and Illithid powers) at all if you avoid using the [WISDOM][ILLITHID] power options.

Last edited by DiDiDi; 28/01/21 09:18 PM.
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Yes but you also have shadow magic in your head which is why the tadpole can not turn you into a Illithid


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
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I watched a video that speculated that it was a collab between Shar, dead 3, and a particular group of mindflayers. Shar was betrayed and robbed or something. Mindflayers want portals and hosts to take over/destroy the sun and the dead 3 want a secret spark of divinity hidden somewhere the flayers can help reach. Shar shows up in dreams to make sure the tadpole does not get who she considers useful. What ever is in Moon towers removes her influence and welcome to tentacle slavery.

All speculation from various sources saying different things. Heavy though be warned just incase.

Last edited by Aishaddai; 28/01/21 09:28 PM.
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Shar being betrayed does kind of fit or she got wind of the dead three plans one of Shar portfolios is secrets I think Shar is just using the MC for her own ends


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Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
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Probably lol.

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Personally, I doubt it's Shar, even though the game suggests that both she and Selune will be heavily involved in the plot.

My reasons:

1) Shadow magic and Shadow Weave aren't related, at least DnD rules say so. And if it was Shar's magic, the hag would've noticed. Plus, Gale mentions that the magic is Netherese. It's ancient and very powerful - at least it's said that nobody has been able to repeat what Netherese arcanists used to do without breaking a sweat. In addition, Netherese were very proud of their abilities, to the point they thought themselves worthy of ascending to godhood.
2) Shar manipulates differently. She evokes dark emotions, she plays with insecurities and fears, she basically breaks a person's mind to make them do her bidding. The dream person uses a more "carrot-on-the-stick" approach.
3) The tadpole is NOT happy about intervention. In the final dream, the player's character feels its anger, while the narrator says "It wants him/her gone". Also, you have the option to resist both your dream person and the tadpole.
4) No god tolerates Illithids because once a host turns, their soul is destroyed. Many followers of different deities never got their afterlife because of ceremorphosis. Shar would use a lot of secret tactics to get what she wants, but this is too much.

My theory is that the Absolute is a powerful arcanist, the one who survived the fall of Netheril and managed to preserve himself/herself. Now, they're using their magic to continue what Karsus started...or maybe even to bring Karsus back since his soul was never accepted by any of the deities and is bound to Material Plane.

Why do I think so?

1) There is a reason why Gale mentions Karsus' Folly. It's not just his backstory, there is something more about the guy who tried to kill a goddess to become a god.
2) The dress of our dream person looks very...odd. There is a hedonistic touch to it, and maybe not just to please the eye. It's said that the Empire of Netheril used to be very decadent and enjoyed luxurious lifestyle.
3) Gods are growing anxious. Some people theorize that the skeletion in our camp was sent by Kelemvor himself. He is here to make sure that we live long enough to accomplish something. Why would he be so interested in us?
4) Hells are getting involved. Raphael was right: if the PC and the rest turn, their souls would be worthless. At the same time, he can't remove tadpoles, yet he still pressures us that he is our only option, so we should just sell our souls to him. Maybe, he wants our souls, so that someone else won't get them? Gods need souls and worshippers to grow strong. What if that "let me in" thing ends may end with us pledging our soul to the Absolute without knowing it?

To sum it up: The Absolute thinks outside the box and doesn't give a crap about established rules. It unvampired a vampire, it affects physiology...and it's currently not as strong as it wants to be, hence tadpoles. So, it needs followers, worshippers and possibly avatars, so it's making a lot of noise accross the planes. It feels more like a new player than a Shar's gambit.


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My theory so far is that a devil (devils?) and a group of mindflayers were working together to do... something, and then things went horribly wrong. And it involved hell getting more souls and mindflayers getting their empire back. The Daisy figure might be Shar--and I think her powers are being abused somehow to keep the tadpoles in check. But I don't believe she's part of the conspiracy itself. As for the Dead Three, I have no idea how they come into play, but I do think they'll end up involved somehow.

Last edited by MyriadHappenings; 29/01/21 01:54 AM.

“But his mind saw nothing of all this. His mind was engaged in a warfare of the gods. His mind paced outwards over no-man's-land, over the fields of the slain, paced to the rhythm of the blood's red bugles. To be alone and evil! To be a god at bay. What was more absolute?”
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It is highly likely that Raphael/Devils/Demons are NOT part of the mindflayer conspiracy whatever it is. They attacked the ship for a reason - had the attack been successful, or had Raphael/Demons/Devils been part of the conspiracy, they would not be trying to cut a "deal" with the PC and Companions. They are a separate faction, trying to altar the circumstances/outcome of the plot in a way that brings them some benefit. One faction of the gods may be working with Kelemvor to "put a finger on the scales" to also effect the outcome, through the aid of old SkellyBelly. If my senile memory is still even slightly intact, some groups of Netherese have return to the plane Faerun occupies, and The Absolute could very well be a member trying to make a play for Godhood - or a member of any of the other factions trying teh same. It certainly appears as if someone either stabbed Shar in the back, stole something or is trying to steal something from her, she represents another faction trying to game the plot. Where you see Shar, you see her sister Selune behind the door. There could even be a larger plot in the background by Ao to somehow reunite Shar and Selune, thus altering the cosmic balance of the gods, repairing or altering the current cosmology of magic in the realms and introducing chocolate chip cookies to Baldur's Gate.

If any of this is true, then BG3 then shows itself a worthy successor to BG1/2 with regard to realm altering events. On the other hand, The tadpole could wake up in the shower, and realize it's mindflayer self was just having a nightmare, remembering a shadow of it's former life as J.R. Ewman, a dastardly human businessman from Sembia.

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Can you imagine going through the whole game only to have the MC wake up in a pod. A newborn Mindflayer. Its was all a dream ohhhhhh.

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Originally Posted by Anfindel
It is highly likely that Raphael/Devils/Demons are NOT part of the mindflayer conspiracy whatever it is. They attacked the ship for a reason - had the attack been successful, or had Raphael/Demons/Devils been part of the conspiracy, they would not be trying to cut a "deal" with the PC and Companions. They are a separate faction, trying to altar the circumstances/outcome of the plot in a way that brings them some benefit. One faction of the gods may be working with Kelemvor to "put a finger on the scales" to also effect the outcome, through the aid of old SkellyBelly. If my senile memory is still even slightly intact, some groups of Netherese have return to the plane Faerun occupies, and The Absolute could very well be a member trying to make a play for Godhood - or a member of any of the other factions trying teh same. It certainly appears as if someone either stabbed Shar in the back, stole something or is trying to steal something from her, she represents another faction trying to game the plot. Where you see Shar, you see her sister Selune behind the door. There could even be a larger plot in the background by Ao to somehow reunite Shar and Selune, thus altering the cosmic balance of the gods, repairing or altering the current cosmology of magic in the realms and introducing chocolate chip cookies to Baldur's Gate.

Yeah, that’s the one wrench in my theory. My explanation is that some of the mindflayers betrayed the group as a whole (or the devils betrayed the mindflayers? I’m not sure). Something happened prior to the intro because we see a dead mindflayer even before everything goes to shit. Regardless, I wouldn’t be surprised if the devils wanted to use the tadpoles to try and attain godhood themselves (didn’t Asmodeus lose a bunch of power after the second sundering, when the god he devoured was brought back to life?).

Last edited by MyriadHappenings; 29/01/21 04:43 AM.

“But his mind saw nothing of all this. His mind was engaged in a warfare of the gods. His mind paced outwards over no-man's-land, over the fields of the slain, paced to the rhythm of the blood's red bugles. To be alone and evil! To be a god at bay. What was more absolute?”
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Originally Posted by MyriadHappenings
Originally Posted by Anfindel
It is highly likely that Raphael/Devils/Demons are NOT part of the mindflayer conspiracy whatever it is. They attacked the ship for a reason - had the attack been successful, or had Raphael/Demons/Devils been part of the conspiracy, they would not be trying to cut a "deal" with the PC and Companions. They are a separate faction, trying to altar the circumstances/outcome of the plot in a way that brings them some benefit. One faction of the gods may be working with Kelemvor to "put a finger on the scales" to also effect the outcome, through the aid of old SkellyBelly. If my senile memory is still even slightly intact, some groups of Netherese have return to the plane Faerun occupies, and The Absolute could very well be a member trying to make a play for Godhood - or a member of any of the other factions trying teh same. It certainly appears as if someone either stabbed Shar in the back, stole something or is trying to steal something from her, she represents another faction trying to game the plot. Where you see Shar, you see her sister Selune behind the door. There could even be a larger plot in the background by Ao to somehow reunite Shar and Selune, thus altering the cosmic balance of the gods, repairing or altering the current cosmology of magic in the realms and introducing chocolate chip cookies to Baldur's Gate.

Yeah, that’s the one wrench in my theory. My explanation is that some of the mindflayers betrayed the group as a whole (or the devils betrayed the mindflayers? I’m not sure). Something happened prior to the intro because we see a dead mindflayer even before everything goes to shit. Regardless, I wouldn’t be surprised if the devils wanted to use the tadpoles to try and attain godhood themselves (didn’t Asmodeus lose a bunch of power after the second sundering, when the god he devoured was brought back to life?).

But...what about my theory regarding the Chocolate Chip Cookies?!!! wink

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Originally Posted by Anfindel
Originally Posted by MyriadHappenings
Originally Posted by Anfindel
It is highly likely that Raphael/Devils/Demons are NOT part of the mindflayer conspiracy whatever it is. They attacked the ship for a reason - had the attack been successful, or had Raphael/Demons/Devils been part of the conspiracy, they would not be trying to cut a "deal" with the PC and Companions. They are a separate faction, trying to altar the circumstances/outcome of the plot in a way that brings them some benefit. One faction of the gods may be working with Kelemvor to "put a finger on the scales" to also effect the outcome, through the aid of old SkellyBelly. If my senile memory is still even slightly intact, some groups of Netherese have return to the plane Faerun occupies, and The Absolute could very well be a member trying to make a play for Godhood - or a member of any of the other factions trying teh same. It certainly appears as if someone either stabbed Shar in the back, stole something or is trying to steal something from her, she represents another faction trying to game the plot. Where you see Shar, you see her sister Selune behind the door. There could even be a larger plot in the background by Ao to somehow reunite Shar and Selune, thus altering the cosmic balance of the gods, repairing or altering the current cosmology of magic in the realms and introducing chocolate chip cookies to Baldur's Gate.

Yeah, that’s the one wrench in my theory. My explanation is that some of the mindflayers betrayed the group as a whole (or the devils betrayed the mindflayers? I’m not sure). Something happened prior to the intro because we see a dead mindflayer even before everything goes to shit. Regardless, I wouldn’t be surprised if the devils wanted to use the tadpoles to try and attain godhood themselves (didn’t Asmodeus lose a bunch of power after the second sundering, when the god he devoured was brought back to life?).

But...what about my theory regarding the Chocolate Chip Cookies?!!! wink

That one was too airtight, I had to target the weakest link.


“But his mind saw nothing of all this. His mind was engaged in a warfare of the gods. His mind paced outwards over no-man's-land, over the fields of the slain, paced to the rhythm of the blood's red bugles. To be alone and evil! To be a god at bay. What was more absolute?”
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Originally Posted by Aishaddai
Can you imagine going through the whole game only to have the MC wake up in a pod. A newborn Mindflayer. Its was all a dream ohhhhhh.

If played and writen in a masterful way that could be an amazing end.

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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
Originally Posted by Aishaddai
Can you imagine going through the whole game only to have the MC wake up in a pod. A newborn Mindflayer. Its was all a dream ohhhhhh.

If played and writen in a masterful way that could be an amazing end.

Ohh how about this: you are actually the chosen Mindflayer of legend, but you retained the memories of the host, the created character. You wake with an army of elder brain at your command and you have to choose what to do next.

Then boom the one and only Ao himself shows up wrecks all your stuff, then tells you "you won't escape this time". Then you realize you have done this many times escaping to the past and renewing the conquest of the universe. Each time with greater consequence.

You escape again just barely and role credits. Then an ad preview for 6e pops up. Lol

I'm having to much fun. I'll stop.

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Are there any updates on the story by now? Sorry for the necrobump but I thought it was more appropriate to reply than start a new thread on the same subject.

So I am curious about the netherese magic surrounding the tadpole you and your companions have. I have read in another thread (What is the Absolute SPOILERS) that it's possibly a god using the mindflayer reproduction process to gather people under her control, not necessarily to turn them into mindflayers. "The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it" is part of a comment in that thread that claims this. Several people commented that the nautiloid ships require netherese magic to make them, so it'd require a god or a very powerful figure to build them.

Some of them mention Shar being capable of doing this, but also being more likely to be against something like that. I had also heard the tadpole wasn't the dream npc, or there were more than one beings controlling the dream npc.

What I really want to know is about the PC's backstory. Each of the Origin characters have other major events going on with them without the tadpole. Does the PC have a backstory? I saw in one of the last few patches we're now "Baldurian" and have unique dialogues for having that tag. Are they going to let us change that later? If not, do we have some crazy reason for being infected with that particular type of tadpole? What about the lich in our camp?

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Can't answer your main questions but the PC backstory is whatever you make it. It can be as basic or elaborate as you want, we fortunately do not have restrictions or forced backstories like a lot of games. The Baldurian tag is a bit weird but you don't have to use that particular option in dialogues if you came from somewhere else. I just hope in later acts the Baldurian thing is still an option.

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Last theory that I followed was that

The Dead Three made enemies of Shar somehow. Kelemvor is plotting something. Mindlayers are hopping both time and space for Mindlayer reasons and may or may not have made deals with powerful shady individuals.

Dream person is tadpole, however we as PC non origin are actually something else. Whatever the hell we, as PC, are is totally at odds with tadpole. Its something deep that craves carnage. Tadpole wants control of it.

Nautiloids need Mindlayers to teach other Mindlayers. Time travel of a higher up from the empire would be my guess. Gods generally don't like Mindlayers except the Mindlayer God.

References: final EA scene on boat, final dream sequence, Jergal checks with cleric of death gods, absolute symbol being the dead three, and Mindlayer speak with dead.

Last edited by Aishaddai; 21/04/21 12:39 AM.

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