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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Scribe
You folks are amazing. I know I played a bunch offline, but not even close to 100.

Are you D&D players? Because I know what should be there, and what simply isn't up to par, so why test it again?

I have played a lot of D&D in the past, but I am not going to fanboi hate a game because it is not some 1:1 replica of a tabletop game. It seems from a few of your posts, that is the major issue with you.

Find where I said it must be a 1 for 1 implementation. I'll wait.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Scribe
You folks are amazing. I know I played a bunch offline, but not even close to 100.

Are you D&D players? Because I know what should be there, and what simply isn't up to par, so why test it again?

I have played a lot of D&D in the past, but I am not going to fanboi hate a game because it is not some 1:1 replica of a tabletop game. It seems from a few of your posts, that is the major issue with you.
Where do all the "Pure-5e-mob" misconceptions come from?
No one ever said Larian should make this game 100% like 5e.
I'm not a native English speaker and even I can distinguish the meaning of "please make it closer to 5e" from "make it a 1:1 5e replica".

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Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Scribe
You folks are amazing. I know I played a bunch offline, but not even close to 100.

Are you D&D players? Because I know what should be there, and what simply isn't up to par, so why test it again?

I have played a lot of D&D in the past, but I am not going to fanboi hate a game because it is not some 1:1 replica of a tabletop game. It seems from a few of your posts, that is the major issue with you.
Where do all the "Pure-5e-mob" misconceptions come from?
No one ever said Larian should make this game 100% like 5e.
I'm not a native English speaker and even I can distinguish the meaning of "please make it closer to 5e" from "make it a 1:1 5e replica".

Because without generalization and straw man arguments how does one demonize a view they disagree with?

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Oh and not once did I say to only share negative reviews.
No you did not come right out and say it. You implied that that's what you wanted to happen. Everybody on these forums knows that you have a negative opinion of the game. Then all of a sudden you start a thread urging people to leave a Steam review. A blind man can see what you're up to. You wanted those who agreed with you to post negative opinions on Steam. I'm a relative newcomer to these forums and I could see it right away by reading posts you made in other threads and seeing how you started this thread. Be honest. You weren't looking for people to post anything positive. As I said in other posts you basically tried to start a review bombing campaign because something about the game didn't go your way or hasn't met your standards. That's what refunds are for.

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All the sudden? This thread is old.

Until today, I still had hope for this game.

If you enjoy it, by all means, leave a Steam review and tell folks all about it.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Grinch
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Grinch
You're leaving a negative review for an Early Access game which is still under development and not finished. You have no idea how the final product will turn out.

Wouldn’t this part also apply to positive reviews?

If one side can make assertions then so can the other side.
There are no sides to this. How do you figure there is? Some people are going to like the way the game is being developed and some people aren't. The point here is that the game is still under development. The OP is urging people to write negative Steam reviews. He has a negative opinion of the game. The implication is that he wants others who share his opinion to write negative reviews in an attempt to review bomb this game even before it's final release. That's kind of pointless considering the game is still under development and subject to change many times before it goes gold. You don't raise concerns by posting negative reviews. You send those concerns to the development team. This comes off as an individual or group throwing a temper tantrum because the game isn't being made exactly to their standards.

Like I said there are no sides to this. Early Access reviews are pretty much pointless. That's why Steam marks them as EA reviews. The only reason I want to leave a positive review is as a counterpoint to people like the OP who is really trying to trash the game. Reminds me of a little kid throwing a tantrum because they didn't get their way.

I have no beef in this argument and I’m just referring to posting reviews. Of course there’s sides. One side likes where the game is going the other does not. If you can post good reviews for EA then others should be able to post negative ones.

I’m not sure why this idea is confusing.
Nothing confusing about it. I personally don't think EA reviews are helpful either way. Do you know what? That's not what the OP wanted to happen. Nothing stops him from posting a positive or negative review on Steam. Nothing stops me. But I'm not the one on these forums full of negativity towards the game. I'm not the one who started a thread urging people to post reviews on Steam with the implication that those reviews be negative and agree with the OP's opinion of the game. Think about it. Why would the OP urge people to post positive reviews that he would most certainly disagree with? He wanted negative reviews posted simply because something isn't to his liking or didn't go his way. Acting like a spoiled brat when the easy solution is not to post negative reviews but to simply request a refund and be done with the game. My guess would be that even if the OP got his refund he would still be on these forums trashing the game.

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Originally Posted by Grinch
. My guess would be that even if the OP got his refund he would still be on these forums trashing the game.

You'll be wrong.

Once I get my refund, I'm out of here. smile

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Originally Posted by Scribe
All the sudden? This thread is old.

Until today, I still had hope for this game.

If you enjoy it, by all means, leave a Steam review and tell folks all about it.
You started this thread on February 6. Today is only February 17. So it's only 11 days old. It's not that old.

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Originally Posted by Grinch
Originally Posted by Scribe
All the sudden? This thread is old.

Until today, I still had hope for this game.

If you enjoy it, by all means, leave a Steam review and tell folks all about it.
You started this thread on February 6. Today is only February 17. So it's only 11 days old. It's not that old.
.

OK. You can define old threads, just as you define intent.

Honestly I wish I didn't care, as the farce that was today's update ruined my whole day.

I'll just take up my fight with Steam, and you can go on enjoying cut scenes, and pushing people as a cat.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Grinch
Originally Posted by Scribe
All the sudden? This thread is old.

Until today, I still had hope for this game.

If you enjoy it, by all means, leave a Steam review and tell folks all about it.
You started this thread on February 6. Today is only February 17. So it's only 11 days old. It's not that old.
.

OK. You can define old threads, just as you define intent.

Honestly I wish I didn't care, as the farce that was today's update ruined my whole day.

I'll just take up my fight with Steam, and you can go on enjoying cut scenes, and pushing people as a cat.
I will, Scribe, thank you. If you're looking for a good upcoming RPG, PF:WotR is good, and from what I know of you, is probably up your alley.


I honestly hope you have a most marvelous day!
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Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Grinch
Originally Posted by Scribe
All the sudden? This thread is old.

Until today, I still had hope for this game.

If you enjoy it, by all means, leave a Steam review and tell folks all about it.
You started this thread on February 6. Today is only February 17. So it's only 11 days old. It's not that old.
.

OK. You can define old threads, just as you define intent.

Honestly I wish I didn't care, as the farce that was today's update ruined my whole day.

I'll just take up my fight with Steam, and you can go on enjoying cut scenes, and pushing people as a cat.
I will, Scribe, thank you. If you're looking for a good upcoming RPG, PF:WotR is good, and from what I know of you, is probably up your alley.

Yep, and I can still play BG1 and BG2. Classic games don't stop being great.

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That's why they're classics!


I honestly hope you have a most marvelous day!
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Quit the bitch-fest and concentrate on discussing the game in a civil manner, please.

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Why hello there, good sirs. I would like to present my point of view to this magnificent audience. In my humble opinion the game does not live up to the expectations. My primary concern is the fact that the developers do not seem to value the voice of community as much as they say they do. This lack of acknowledgement of the community feedback has left me bitter, frustrated and unable to withstand any more disappointment. So is my testimony, and I sincerely hope I did not offend any of you, wonderful people, with particular emphasis on the forum's moderators.


The way Larian manages party movement is dreadful
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Originally Posted by Nibel
Why hello there, good sirs. I would like to present my point of view to this magnificent audience. In my humble opinion the game does not live up to the expectations. My primary concern is the fact that the developers do not seem to value the voice of community as much as they say they do. This lack of acknowledgement of the community feedback has left me bitter, frustrated and unable to withstand any more disappointment. So is my testimony, and I sincerely hope I did not offend any of you, wonderful people, with particular emphasis on the forum's moderators.
Well, my friend, I do sincerely appreciate the formality (And this isn't me being fresh or anything) but I should like to respectfully disagree. I feel that Larian has listened to the community on several issues (I.E. We need better UI, Short rests are useless, cantrips providing surfaces is broken, etc. This is just from what I know, and there may be more things lurking in the Patch 4 patch notes). I do believe that you are referring to a dislike for many of the changes Larian has made to the core decisions, and to a certain extent, there are certain things that they have simply made up their mind on. They have acknowledged that this feedback exists during Panel from Hell II in their discussion with Jeremy Crawford where they said that that certain things were, in their opinion, better for a CRPG as opposed to a TTRPG. It was, admittedly, a backhanded and catty way of saying it, but it was, essentially, their way of saying "no". If this game and discussion of it causes, as you say, bitterness and frustration, may I suggest taking a step back? I'm not trying to be rude, and I understand it might come across that way, and for that I apologize. For real, if you're feeling distressed, wallowing in anger and bitterness is probably not a good idea. As my quotation says, I hope that you have a good day and can find some peace, friend.


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i mean crawford's response was about the rationale for the tabletop mechanics and really didnt address what the actual impact of wild shape changes (mainly, free action to drop animal form and bonus action to assume animal form) could be both at low levels or at later game - if we ignored bg3, even if these changes were implemented as standard in the tabletop id still want to hear what wotc thoughts are on the gameplay/mechanics impact, and crawfords answer still didnt address that (also not considering other questions from the stream, ie swen seemed to be able to take numerous [bear, bird, badger, cat] forms in one run whereas i thought wildshape was 2x/rest for the standard druid? - someone please correct me if im wrong here). imho, that whole segment with crawford really didnt reassure my concerns with the game's direction, and makes it seem like wotc isnt closely involved (or interested) in the development of the game.

to stay in the spirit of this thread, i do hope y'alls days are going well tho wink - lets hope patch 4 is able to drop next week

more detail below from another post regarding that interaction, but its like an ~1:33 into the panel for those whom want to hear for themselves

Originally Posted by nation
Originally Posted by biomag
Even the WotC guy was there for the reason I expected - yeah, there are limitations to tabletop and that's why its fine that changes are made. He was kind enough to ignore the balancing arguments for why it requires a bonus action to turn off wildshape and why no flying speed - its definitely not because 'we don't know what you might encounter in your tt-adventure' - most will see birds even without being adventurers.
this is so true - like, we can debate the changes that larian made to the wild shape mechanic and adapting to a computer versus human dm, but crawford didnt even address that.

larian presented wild shape action economy changes for a pc game with a 'hey, we changed this mechanic bc cool/fun - is that alright/what are your thoughts on these changes?', and crawfords response doesnt address the mechanical fallout of the change at all, and instead responds with the rationale as to why mechanics in the tabletop game restricting a druid's wild shape ability were structured in such a way (ie not to slow down the game for others at the table and not overpowering/unbalancing the game in the favor of the druid class) - it came off hollow and makes it sound like wotc isnt actually that closely involved in bg3's development at all tbh

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My 2 cents. I have enjoyed this game thus far. I have played multiple version of DnD including 5e. This game to my knowledge is the only 5e game out there. It has a lot to live up to.

I've also wanted to play a simple warlock that just blasts the hell out of everything at extreme ranges. This game like many before it, still has issues with ranged combat. That being the actual range of the weapon or spell. This has been persistent in all DnD games that I know of so it's not a big deal.

The current implementation of spells have been fine so far for the most part. I would appreciate friendship working so that I can get advantage when I talk to someone. I am not sure if advantage and disadvantage are being implemented in the game already. I not really checked the right side bar to read all that information. Not being a game programmer I would think it easy to have two roles and selecting the higher of the two. Also not sure how charm would work?

On a side note I wish level 5 was the cap instead of 4. There's a great meme about mages and this. I enjoy the items that are able to be found or made etc. They give nice flavor to the game. I hope more will be included.

I have high hopes for this game and hope that they will be able to implement all of the main classes and sub classes along with more races. I would have assumed that Wyll would be a Hexblade. Maybe they will change things in the final when they put the rest of the class features in the game. Hoping that they will include Sorcerer soon.

I am hoping that we will get a companion for every class as that makes sense. I figure the tiefling Ranger? you can either help or kill would be another option. As companions go there is clearly a good and evil alignment group that you are sort of forced to travel with. While I appreciate how your choices matter with companions, at times it's hard being good. I hope that there will be a better balance in the end when all companions are available. Though as it is, Gale can pitch in as a healer (though he shouldn't be able to), and the upcoming druid may fill this better. There also needs to be another tank, maybe a barbarian instead of Lae'Zel? Or again the Druid in bear form.

The story seems to be heavily influenced by tieflings? Not much here to say on that just an observation. I just wonder if there will be elf, dwarf, etc., speech options in the future for diversity?

Overall great early access game. Can't wait for the rest of the pieces to fall into place. Mahalo Nui Loa to Larian Studios for making this game.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Grinch
. My guess would be that even if the OP got his refund he would still be on these forums trashing the game.

You'll be wrong.

Once I get my refund, I'm out of here. smile

If you find a way to get a refund through Steam despite clearing their 2-hour playtime limit, please message me to let me know.
I'd be eternally indebted to you.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Grinch
. My guess would be that even if the OP got his refund he would still be on these forums trashing the game.

You'll be wrong.

Once I get my refund, I'm out of here. smile

If you find a way to get a refund through Steam despite clearing their 2-hour playtime limit, please message me to let me know.
I'd be eternally indebted to you.

3 Times, 3 Times Rejected, and the last one looked like it was on an even shorter (near automatic) rejection.

Its not happening I'm afraid. Honestly it should be criminal to charge $80 for a bloody Alpha Tech Demo, but here we are.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
3 Times, 3 Times Rejected, and the last one looked like it was on an even shorter (near automatic) rejection.

Its not happening I'm afraid. Honestly it should be criminal to charge $80 for a bloody Alpha Tech Demo, but here we are.

Eh, the way I see it, I already knew what I was getting into with this from the very moment that they showed off that first preview almost a whole year ago at this point, with the preview showing the game quite literally running on a modified D:OS2 engine. I was super optimistic in those days, knowing on a practical level that the preview was largely a tech demo and recycled assets are a very normal thing in game development, but it probably should have been a red flag thinking further on the actual combat mechanics I saw in that presentation. A game like this deserved a new engine that could implement everything that the system needed, for a game studio that is no longer some random indie developer now that they have multiple studios across the world. And this is especially for something that was supposed to have WotC's support and a full AAA budget to go along with it. Every other design decision I can ultimately tolerate in the end, but no ready actions and proper reactions is a complete travesty.

(On that note, this might sound overly harsh, but people should really stop trying to treat Larian as being above criticism because of the 'indie' label. You don't want to encourage complacency. There was one other company in recent memory with a similar kind of devoted fanbase, if not a lot more rabid in their belief that they could do no wrong... Until they did.)

That said, there's still a year or longer to go, and things do change with that kind of timeline. After all, I have been participating in Pathfinder WotR alpha and beta along with Solasta's EA simultaneously for the better part of the past 10 months, and a lot did happen in that timeline for those games too. If anything, the money I put into each project means I am obligated to stay on this train until the end and continue advocating for more suggestions and changes. And if nothing happens, I want to see and understand for myself if literally all of my predictions about this game's mechanics design having a spiraling detrimental effect on the mid/late game balance and encounter design turns out to be accurate in the end.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 20/02/21 07:26 AM.
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