Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Hypothesis: Why Our Tadpoles Are Such Sexy Beasts

I said all the gods you mentioned. I know some died permanently. Probably because they weren’t popular to begin with. Since the setting is based on a game, there’s a lot of meta decisions made in the story.

I mean you can argue that Larian might use some story elements from BG 1&2 to connect all the games but I just don’t think they will bring back gods from over two decades and three editions ago. Just my opinion. Faerun fans seem to like the status quo.

Ooooh what an amazing idea! A community of free-thinking minds, working towards one common goal.

It might be my tadpole talking, but I really felt a lot of compassion towards the Opening Cinematic Illithid. Would have loved it if he survived.

You're right about the opening cinematic -- it's definitely supposed to invoke a feeling of them being under huge strain and the opposite of flourishing. But I think this is because they are being hunted -- the dragon knights have in my mind likely been pursuing them for some time.

(I also think the reason is less Laessie and more the lament configuration that SH has found)

But the main point I wanted to make is that we see another Mindflayer alive (briefly ) on the helm and that there are several dead ones that appear to have been killed only since they entered hell and got attacked by the devils so we can't really claim the tadpoler is all alone.

I don't really think there's any real reason to assume the helmsman and the tadpoler is the same squiddyboi either but narrative conventions would suggest it is so I'm assuming it anyway.

It does kinda smell of evasion, but the thread itself asks "why are the tadpoles sexy". I do not see sexy tadpoles as a very mind flayer trope, more of a succubus demon kid of thing. Also the powers they are given are class specific, what they desire most. With a huge story progression around devils something tells me they main devil is not just there to "help" you. It's almost as if they made a deal for the souls of the tadpoles but they still need your consent. As for motive, mindflayer powers might just tip the blood wars in there favor.

I've been thinking the transponder thing goes to particular places. It's not by random chance we end up on a random stretch of land where the Absolute faction is already established (and deliberately so going by the studies of goblin customs and culture that you can find on the ship) and working. So hell is probably involved somehow. Maybe not at Zariel's top level of it though.

I don't know about that, there are lots of Ctulhurotica out there. **whistles innocently**




I think that the way the transponder itself looks and its mechanics might be a clue. The first time I watched it I thought of those 20's Cable Girls / Phone Operators "Hold on tight, I'll connect you!" moving cables to establish communications between different parties. My working theory, on a macro level, is that each of the transponder's little hands acts as a cable connecting the nautiloid to a psionic center / elder brain. The navigator makes the tentacles hold hands and strums them together with a very satisfying, musical thump to reach another plane. It also makes sense that only special tadpoled thralls would be able to use it; I tried using Us to connect the transponder (Us can open coffers, has an inventory and seems to be more connected to the Mind Flayers than we do) but only Lae'zel and my MC are actually able to do it.

Which, to me, suggests three things:

1) There was a Mind Flayer enclave somewhere in Avernus

2) We will be revisiting both Avernus and those cold peaks (putting that "cold resistance" and "robe of summer" to good use and becoming a truly ultimate weapon).

3) (very excited about this last part) the MC and the party will be able to travel between planes on their own at some point, as long a member of the party is already there. We know that Gale has a quest connection to the Astral Plane, Wyll to Avernus, Lae'zel to that weird timeless plane, and I'm assuming that Astarion's master lives in a Ravenlofty demi-plane. This jumping into the Abyss with your friends could be foreshadowed with all those feather-fall jumps into the Underdark.

Jumping planes is not uncommon in Baulder's gate games and I really like this idea. Maybe the Planar Sphere will play a role? I would not feel like they were recycling old ideas if they brought it back in as a way to get to Avernus/Other Planes. I mean it works very similarly to the Nautaloids.

What intrigues me, is that the Absolute "worships" True Souls as leaders or saints. But the True Souls that have escaped from the Nautiloid must be killed by Absolute's orders.
Which implies that there is something about the True Souls (and thus the tadpolls) from that Nautiloid that does not fit in the Absolute's model to the extent that they must be destroyed.
Sp is there the True Soul conspiracy from the Absolute on the one hand and a rogue or rebel conspiracy on the other ?

THIS. I think that the Absolute is some form of the Dead Three / maaaaybe Shar after they allied with a faction of the Illithids. My money is on the faction that wants to snuff out the sun. The new tadpoles are a threat to their supremacy, because whatever it is that makes the former ones subservient to the Absolute is not fully working on yours, and it's conferring some interesting light (as in the element) powers to the most light-challenged members of the party, Astarion and Shadowheart. Astarion (whose name sounds very close to "Star", by the way) loves to sunbathe now, but those powers do not extend to water. Shadowheart, a cleric of darkness, has moonlight-shaded sparks coming out of her hands.

I saw an old playthrough where abusing the tadpole's powers meant that you would be completely subservient to a drow that you encounter after the boat ride. However, now I wonder if it is abusing the powers AND getting the Mark of the Absolute what does it.

I think they want to kill you because they don't want tadpoled people just running around. Something about your escape interrupted the previous process -- none of the other tadpole bearers are aware they are carrying them, but you are, and that makes you a threat to the conspiracy.

And by killing you they can collect the tadpoles and try again. With the loss of the nautiloid they might have lost their "science and development" base, so to speak. They might not have another way to develop the new kind of tadpoles.

Wait wait wait, let's rewind to do the circular narrative thingy again, see how this plays.

The first tadpole that you encounter after being infected is Us, the cute brain. Right away, you get the option to "cripple it", should it become a threat, or to leave it intact. I always leave it intact, poor pet. However, regardless of what you do, Us is already plugged into the Illithid Daddy's brain, fighting for his life at the helm, and knows exactly what to do.

This could be a foreshadowing of how the Absolute cripples the other brains, so that they become subservient to Her. Maybe that's what happens at Moonrise Towers, a kind of mystical brain injury. In Gut's case it went really badly. Alternatively, this could reference how you might injure your own brain accidentally, reducing your own agency and power. Volo's failed operation looks a lot like a lobotomy, after all. And this game LOVES to play with parallels, presenting the exact same action performed by different parties to deconstruct concepts like "good" and "evil".

Then, you encounter the other tadpole that is trying to escape from True Soul Edowyn -- the little beast reaches up, a bit like the worm in Labyrinth, a tiny high five to a friend. The scene is incredibly effective, because the camera shows your face from the tadpole's perspective, curled up in disgust, as the narrator explains how pure and adorable it is. The smart move would have been to remain in the cadaver until you moved away, but the tadpole itself doesn't perceive you as a threat, although to be fair it was pretty young.

Just a nit -- Us aren't a tadpole creation/mindflayer, we're an Intellect Devourer: we're a whole different thing unrelated to the Illithid tadpole process.

Edit: On second thought, I guess you were referring to Us recognising the tadpole in us, in which case scratch the above nitpick, it's irrelevant.

But I do think (though I don't remember the encounter very well, I always click through it hastily nowadays) it's not the tadpole we react to, we just assume we are enthralled like the other mind-slaves you encounter on the ship.

There is the thing I wonder with Us, do they assume we are enthralled? They seem happy enough to fight the thralls and intellect devourers as well as the mindflayer, so I wonder if they had somehow imprinted on the player or got connected to our Tadpole in particular, and if Mutilation and/or the fact we had to remove Us from the cranium has some role to play?

Us is basically a dog. It imprints on you as its rescuer and from then on you're it's friend, and can do no wrong. Kind of like a gooeyer Scratch and not really any more intelligent.

This thread is fun! haha

It would be nice if they could davinci code it back to the temple sewers somehow

What was always considered perplexing about Finder's success at "killing" Moander was, that he had success at all because gods could only be killed by other gods in the true sense. The supposed explanation was, that Finder had Tymora's support at doing the deed and succeeded only because of it. The truth about it was, that Finder didn't succeed at truly killing Moander. The old god's consciousness remained in Darkwatch, where it drained power and gained strength from people visiting the place and one creature of sufficient strength, like an avatar or a Chosen, would be enough for him to regain his demigod status. The method by which he lured people to Darkwatch was by infecting those with special spores. These spores could straightforwardly eat people or influence them like through suggestion to make the infected send more to be infected. Another method by which he lured people to Darkwatch was by making the appear like one of religious significance. This was met with different degrees of success. Clerics of Cyric ventured there to relish the dark energy there while Vhaeraun following drow wanted to have nothing to do with the place.


Moander was a very controlling deity; his servants had to undergo a ceremony in which a seed of the deity was absorbed into the initiate. This seed slowly grew throughout their bodies until all of their internals were completely composed of rotting plant material; the only outward manifestation was a small flowered tendril emerging from one ear that wound its way through the hair. Those that had fully undergone this transformation were completely under the direct control of Moander both physically and mentally - at any moment it desired. It did allow some free will occasionally; those most important to the cult, but it could (and would) kill them at a moments notice should they seek to betray the cult.

At this stage, whenever it wished, Moander could assume complete direct mental and physical control of the recipient. It could also speed up or slow down the rotting process, which allowed for further control of Its servants through fear.

Symbol of Moander







Just sayin'...

Ugh, do I have to be a god? Why do I always have to be so damned special? Can't I just be a dude with a worm in his head doing his best?

Me too. I'm really eager to see how this holds up as the game plays out.

Okay, this is all very entertaining to read through and I have a few thoughts:

1. Shar and Selune have been featured prominently throughout. Where do they fit in?

2. Moonrise Towers. The one main difference between the True Souls and our merry band is that our guys have never been to Moonrise where the post-tadpole indoctrination supposedly takes place. The TSs think they are serving a goddess and are blissfully unaware of the pollywogs in their heads.

3. Are Mizora and the Grand Duke being held for a particular, perhaps additional purpose? They were certainly chosen for insta-transport to Moonrise.

I think there are at least two factions vying for ultimate control, with other stickling their fingers in wherever they can*, or just trying to get a piece of any potential pie.**



*Who is it that was "right as always" and sent our skeletal friend to bring back our fallen? Did they (or someone they are allied with) alert the kithrak to the ship's location in the first place?

**Raphael, and who knows who else.

Well, if my main character's mind is going to be replaced by a dead god's, I hope mine is a god of the bards who loves song, wine and women, who is also a narcissistic egomaniac hell-bent on the destruction of the temples in Baldur's Gate.

Wake the fuck up, Baldurian. We have a city to buurrrrnnnnnnn!