Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Co-Op Roleplaying Thoughts

Hey there! This is something I posted on one of the Steam threads for this game, but I figured it would be more likely to get to someone if I posted it here, so I'm just gonna be copy/pasting what I said on the Steam thread in the hopes it's more likely to get around. I really hope this is an idea that can be considered, cause I think it could be really interesting. Sorry in advance if it's something that's already been suggested or gone over before!

I do want to slip in a suggestion I've been sitting on for a while. I saw someone suggest the same in a video once, so I thought maybe I wouldn't have to, but I'll stop lurking long enough to get the thought out there and hope someone sees it. It would probably take some major overhauls, but hey, that's what early access is for, right?

For co-op conversations, I was wondering if it would be possible to do something like the conversations from the MMO Star Wars the Old Republic? Where when someone starts a conversation, it initiates a "ready check" so other people can join in if they want. Then when the conversation is underway, everyone picks which dialogue options they want to say, and there's a roll-off to see which conversation option goes through. In the case of a tie, whoever picked first wins the tie. And there are also behind-the-scenes bonuses given to players that haven't won a check in a while, to make sure one player doesn't happen to run the tables in the conversation. And there's a timer where, if it runs out, whoever has the highest roll gets their option even if someone hasn't picked yet, to make sure people can't be jerks. :P

I feel like that could slip into a d20 system easily enough. Just have every player roll a d20 when they pick an option, displaying which number they got. Highest number wins. If one player wins the roll twice in a row, the other players get like, a +2 bonus to the roll or something. Then, assuming there's more than 2 players, the bonuses will continuously increase, only to reset when one of the players gets their option picked, so everyone should at least have a single dialogue option go through in a given conversation. Then, if someone just wants to spectate and doesn't want to participate for whatever reason, after the ready check has passed and the conversation has started, players that aren't involved can listen in like how it is now.

I feel like this could also solve problems like, say, a forced conversation starting with a character that doesn't have persuasion causing you to botch an important persuasion check. Cause then the person with persuasion could pick their option, and the others could just let it go through if they wanted.

I dunno, me and my friends just get disheartened sometimes when most of the roleplaying in the game boils down to watching each other doing important scenes instead of always actively having a hand in them. I thought this could be a possible solution for it. I feel like from a theoretical level it could work well, but I dunno what kind of programming hell it would require, so, hey, you do you. Just putting thoughts out there.

Agree! The way it works now makes it easy to miss the start of conversations in co-op, and it is better if everyone has a chance to participate in conversations as in SWTOR.

A ready check for every dialogue? That would get annoying pretty quickly. The game already tells you that's "there's an interesting conversation nearby" for key story elements. If it's something you want your co-op players to hear/see, speak up and let them listen in before continuing.

The roll-off gives me flashbacks to the DOS rock, paper, scissors system. A roll is a slightly different mechanic, but gives the same result. The game already has the option for co-op players to suggest lines, without taking over the conversation.

In terms of role-playing, I don't really agree with the 'face' mechanic of always sending up your most charismatic or persuasive person. If you fail a roll because your stumbled into a conversation, so be it. I don't want to win every roll every time, otherwise what's the point?

I didn't really know about the "interesting conversation bit" myself, me and my friends usually stick close together anyways. And yeah, the ready check part of it was more of a holdover from how SWTOR handles it. I still think it would be good to have something like it- like Icelyn said, it can be pretty easy to miss the start of a conversation even when you're on the ball about it- but if that part's not needed, it doesn't really need to be there anyways.

I actually kind of liked the idea of the DOS rock paper scissors thing. The difference between that and this is that it would be a lot faster and less intrusive, though. Just click an option and your roll is made behind-the-scenes, and the result just pops up so everyone can see it. And yeah, you can already suggest your answer, but that's kind of my point? All you can do is suggest, and at least for me and my friends personally, we just kind of stopped doing it after a while, because there's not much point. It's more interesting to be actively engaging in the conversation than just suggesting a line that my friend probably isn't gonna pick anyways, because we have two different character types we're playing. I don't really see the harm in letting each player co-opt the scene every now and then- just like in a real D&D group, everyone should be able to spontaneously have the chance to shine and chime in, instead of just having one person front an entire scene.

As far as the face mechanic, yeah, that's a personal taste thing. Personally I find it kind of unfair when I'm ambushed with a conversation mid-combat or mid-exploration, and I'm locked as a character that can't talk for anything, and the person that actually is a good talker is just deciding to be stoically silent for some reason. Again, just like a real D&D group, everyone should have the chance to chime in- as well as the chance to decide to stay quiet and let the talker talk, or the rogue pick the lock, or whatever's going on in the scene.

Personaly i like rock/paper/scizzors/lizzard/Spock more ...
Since there is nothing more frustrating than keep loosing important decisions in dialogues bcs "right now you just rolled low". -_-

Also im honestly not quite sure how to feel about "pending untill all players will join the conversation" from tOR ...
I see its usefull, and i totally get it ... its just weird that whole world is standing still and wait for Bilbo to finish looting and join to you to talk. :-/

That would be what the modifiers to the roll is for, though. Generally the way it works in SWTOR is that there's a give and take in conversation- more often than not, in a four-player group, everyone will have the chance to say at least one line before the conversation is over, unless it's a particularly short conversation or the rolls go especially sideways. And personally, I would rather know that I at least have a chance to say something but roll poorly instead of what it is now, which is just "alright time to watch my friend play the game for the next five minutes or so."

Again I'll concede that the pending option maybe doesn't need to be there, if it would be preferred that things stay more fluid. I get that. I never minded the conversation pending in SWTOR, but that's just me.

Modifiers?
You mean that your rolls for talking should concidering your stats? That is absolutely horrible idea.

Nnno, the modifiers I described in the post, where if one player wins a few dialogue rolls in a row, the other players get modifiers so they're more likely to win the next roll. And the longer a player goes without winning a roll, the bigger the modifier gets, so eventually a player that's been sidelined for long enough will be practically guaranteed to win. Nothing to do with stats at all.

That feels like it could possibly be manipulated? I do think that there should be some way for multiple players to be able to engage in a conversation but that system might be able to be abused to guarantee the passing of hard checks by purposefully making a player not engage so their bonus adds up, unless I am misunderstanding?

Oh, no no no, the modifier would only be applied to the... I'll refer to it as the "Dialogue Initiative roll" for lack of a better term. Any rolls made within the choice chosen would be handled separately by the player that won the Dialogue Initiative roll.

This seems like it's getting a bit convoluted, to be honest...

Is the issue that you don't feel engaged when someone else is in conversation, or is it that you don't like to lose the rolls? You aren't meant to win every roll, that's kind of the point of the roll mechanic and I don't think there is anything that can be done about the lack of engagement because that's personal. Surely if my socially awkward, not-at-all-charismatic character starts talking and winning the roll for my selection, the party are less likely to win the roll? So it could be used to potentially troll the party? Which might be a roleplay choice, sure.

Before getting into complicated (hidden?) roll modifiers, I'd be more interested in knowing how co-op impacts on companion stats/influence, especially if a party are using the "face", as then the other person will get hardly any approval opportunities. Does this essentially block them from romance or other options?

I don't really think it's that convoluted at all. If I'm tripping over myself explaining it, then that's on me, sure. The best thing I can think to suggest is look up a video of someone doing the Esseles and/or Black Talon Flashpoints with a group in SWTOR. It'll maybe take a handful of minutes to get what I'm talking about. It's a system that already exists in another game- another game with companions that have approval ratings to track, even- and allows for everyone to be engaged during multiplayer content.

And yes, my main complaint is the engagement. The idea of using it to support the "Face" was a throwaway line that was maybe a minor positive, but barely even close to being my main point. In fact, my main point is the exact opposite that the face should be talking all the time, because that's how me and my friend end up doing it most of the time, and it's boring as sin sometimes. The only point I was trying to make about encouraging the face is that, if everyone agreed to it, a group could choose to allow the face to step in instead of losing a persuasion check because of a conversation ambush. They could also choose not to, and to let the scene play out however it does. That was it.

My main point is that everyone should have the opportunity to engage in any conversation at any time instead of taking a backseat to watching another player for entire scenes at a time. As far as how companion approval would work, whoever wins the dialogue initiative check would get the approval and disapproval that their option earned without altering the relationship status of any of the other party members.

The only reason why it sounds so complicated is because I'm also describing all the under-the-hood stuff that would be going on. As far as how it would look in gameplay. at least the way I theorize it- y'know how it is now when a player picks an option to suggest during conversation, and there's a little popup of what their suggesting is? Put a number beside that suggestion. If that option has the biggest number, that's the option that goes through. Honestly, pretty straightforward.

Rolling the dice might be good, but only if you can select to stay silent, and if the roll is dependent on character stats (initiative is the most suitable, may be modified with charisma in mind). Or just go with the fastest player.
Thow the bigest problem is that we have to pick one chose. The best way would be to let every willing charcter to say what they wanted, and progress the dialog taking all of them into account.

Yeah, you could select to stay silent by just letting the timer go out without picking an option. Perfectly valid choice. Although I'm not advocating that the roll is modified by character stats. Just a general modifier that applies to everyone equally when it's needed. That's the only real way to keep it fair.

And, uh... while in an ideal world it would be nice to be able to select all of our options at the same time, I'm not sure if that would actually be feasible in-game.