Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Duchess of Gorgombert
Offline
Duchess of Gorgombert
Joined: May 2010
Location: Oxford
Originally Posted by redcaptrickster
Originally Posted by Wormerine
And while EA is there for players to provide the criticism, ...

Most of what you're reading isn't criticism, it's whining.

If you have nothing useful to say, please don't.


J'aime le fromage.
Joined: May 2019
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: May 2019
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
As for your statement that it is not true that all players who are disappointed feel that way because of BG3 not strictly adhering to D&D 5e rules, I fully agree. Firstly, logically, it is simply true. You only need one example to prove it, and plenty can be found. Secondly, it applies to me : I am disappointed with how BG3 (especially the combat) currently feels and it is not particularly because it is not strictly following 5E (as far as combat is concerned, it's just because it isn't really good once you're passed the first 15h).
Okay, so it would appear we have more in common than not. Yes for also BG3 just doesn't look and play like a BG game. And specifically a BG video game, because I have zero interest in a BG D&D tabletop simulator.

And as a few others are saying, I find both P:WotR and Solasta to be better games than BG3 at this point (though there is still time for my view to change). Solasta's recent addition of a slew of difficulty options is exactly what I think of when someone says they're trying to be reactive to the wishes of their fans.

Joined: Jun 2019
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Jun 2019
I think they aren't saying that they couldn't implement those things, I think that by the word tried they mean that they tested it and just found it less fun (for them) in videogame format. Do you guys really think they are saying they just couldn't figure out how to make drinking a potion an action for example? xD

Joined: Oct 2020
L
member
Offline
member
L
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by H3ll Pme
I think they aren't saying that they couldn't implement those things, I think that by the word tried they mean that they tested it and just found it less fun (for them) in videogame format. Do you guys really think they are saying they just couldn't figure out how to make drinking a potion an action for example? xD
I don't believe they actually tried.

Joined: Feb 2021
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
A faithful adaptation of 5E rules??
I am more looking into a faithful adaptation of BG1 and BG2, which the game IS NOT. BG3 is being built on top of DOS2, it feels nothing like an upgraded baldurs gate game (Atmosphere, UI, items, dialogue...)
Couldn't give two crap about D^D <rulesets>. Whatever makes the game fun and interesting is good for the gameplay.

I am starting to wonder if Larian really got creative freedom to work with the Baldurs gate license...I 100% do not trust WOTC. Its like they only gived the rights for some story elements and some D^D mechanics...Oh and that catchy Baldurs gate III title.

On this particular topic, I kind of wonder if WotC pulled out BG3 because they got spooked by their direct rival Paizo contracting Owlcat to create Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Not really a coincidence that that the Baldur's Gate IP that basically sat dormant for like two decades suddenly reappeared right when Paizo and Pathfinder started making a big move into the gaming scene.

That said, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous would probably be right up your alley once it releases. It's not nearly as pretty as BG3, but it's still a wonderful experience so far as a beta tester myself. It's not trying to be as deep and melancholy as BG3 tends to be, but it's a whole lot of fun. It's definitely shaping up to be the best RTwP game I've ever played so far, bar none. If anything, the writing is leagues ahead in terms of making your main character feel like an actual character in the story, rather than some random schmuck in a party full of special people.

More than likely, it was a copyright ownership thing. If you do not produce something in a certain amount of time you can loose the ownership of that IP. It may have been a circumstance of if WoTC didn't put out, or start development on a new BG property, they would lose their license. Worth looking into.

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
A faithful adaptation of 5E rules??
I am more looking into a faithful adaptation of BG1 and BG2, which the game IS NOT. BG3 is being built on top of DOS2, it feels nothing like an upgraded baldurs gate game (Atmosphere, UI, items, dialogue...)
Couldn't give two crap about D^D <rulesets>. Whatever makes the game fun and interesting is good for the gameplay.

I am starting to wonder if Larian really got creative freedom to work with the Baldurs gate license...I 100% do not trust WOTC. Its like they only gived the rights for some story elements and some D^D mechanics...Oh and that catchy Baldurs gate III title.

No company is going to reproduce the exact atmosphere, and God forbid the UI of a 8 year old game. There is no way that would happen. Engines change, peoples expectation change. If they did recreate that, I think most players would look upon that as clunky. But that is what mods are for man, I am sure you can find BG2 mods on Nexus to make that happen.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
No company is going to reproduce the exact atmosphere, and God forbid the UI of a 8 year old game. There is no way that would happen. Engines change, peoples expectation change. If they did recreate that, I think most players would look upon that as clunky. But that is what mods are for man, I am sure you can find BG2 mods on Nexus to make that happen.

I never played BG1 or BG2, and am curious.

For those who want "true to the game [BG1&2]" specifically for issues OTHER than literal rules/gameplay, what are you looking for? I'd like to better understand this.

Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
Originally Posted by Newtinmpls
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
No company is going to reproduce the exact atmosphere, and God forbid the UI of a 8 year old game. There is no way that would happen. Engines change, peoples expectation change. If they did recreate that, I think most players would look upon that as clunky. But that is what mods are for man, I am sure you can find BG2 mods on Nexus to make that happen.

I never played BG1 or BG2, and am curious.

For those who want "true to the game [BG1&2]" specifically for issues OTHER than literal rules/gameplay, what are you looking for? I'd like to better understand this.

For me, memorable companions and the sense of exploration. Like they had lived of their own lives and in many instances we got to witness it. Many felt genuinely alive and just caricatures. You cared what happened to them. Sometimes I hated leaving some behind because my party was maxed out.

Exploration was great. The world felt huge because of the overland map. It took days to reach certain parts. Not like BG3 where everything feels right next to each other even though they aren't.

My character felt like he was living in that world and not just a visitor.

And the mechanics tried to emulate table top. Not perfectly. But they tried.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 19/02/21 10:24 PM.
Joined: Nov 2020
E
member
Offline
member
E
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Newtinmpls
I never played BG1 or BG2, and am curious.

For those who want "true to the game [BG1&2]" specifically for issues OTHER than literal rules/gameplay, what are you looking for? I'd like to better understand this.

For me, memorable companions and the sense of exploration. Like they had lived of their own lives and in many instances we got to witness it. Many felt genuinely alive and just caricatures. You cared what happened to them. Sometimes I hated leaving some behind because my party was maxed out.

Exploration was great. The world felt huge because of the overland map. It took days to reach certain parts. Not like BG3 where everything feels right next to each other even though they aren't.

My character felt like he was living in that world and not just a visitor.

And the mechanics tried to emulate table top. Not perfectly. But they tried.

I was trying to think of the words to try to give an adequate answer to the question and I think you really nailed it. I would also like to add my own list, with some points in common:

- A day/night cycle complete with weather and a calendar/clock.
- The world felt alive. Myriad animals inhabited the wilderness, along with monsters and random encounters.
- BG 1 & 2 had moments of humour and silliness but it was not overdone. The characters were for the most part believable and not everyone had such extraordinary and mysterious backgrounds.
- No Origins characters. The focus was on you and your own character, not playing someone else's creation. I realise this is a contentious point but clearly the Origins characters are a big part of Larian's game design.
- 6 person party.
- A palpable sense of progression/achievement. Low level parties weren't exposed to a plethora of crazy monsters or locations from the outset. The right to face those foes and explore those places was gradually introduced.
- The world map was open without being a sandbox and was the antithesis of the theme park feel of BG3.
- Party interactions could happen anywhere and weren't triggered only when you rested. Which leads on to: you could rest anywhere, provided it was safe to do so (apart from in cities and towns where you had to find an inn).

For want of a better word, in my opinion I think the soul of Baldur's Gate games is missing from BG3. The tone, feel, theme...call it what you like, is very different. I acknowledge that is subjective. Larian seem to have infused it with their own particular brand of crazy, wacky 'fun' and it's all just too over the top for me. Many others will disagree with that sentiment and that is fine, I can respect that but I do not think this is shaping up to be a game that people will be playing in 20 years from now, bar some major changes in game design.

Joined: Oct 2020
S
stranger
Offline
stranger
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Fact: the devs are either lying about 5e implementation in a video game or are just lazy/incompetent and/or cutting corners to maximise profit. Just finished my second play through of the Solasta EA and it keeps getting better and better.

Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
Originally Posted by simsurf
Fact: the devs are either lying about 5e implementation in a video game or are just lazy/incompetent and/or cutting corners to maximise profit. Just finished my second play through of the Solasta EA and it keeps getting better and better.

I’ve always suspected they blew a good chunk of their budget on cinematics, voice acting, motion capture and flashy graphics. That left much less to build the core system so they figured they could just modify DOS.

The DOS engine may be so rigid, it can’t handle all the 5e changes. Hence all the Larian home brew.

Joined: Jun 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
I think people just need to realise that every developer has their own take/vision on how a game should be played & there's not a lot we can do to change that.

Personally I love any D&D games but I just try to think this is a sandbox game for this particular studio/developer- sure it will have D&D rules but they will not be perfect - who cares? so long as the game is enjoyable, engaging, has D&D spells, monsters, characters etc thats all I want.

I just try to enjoy the game within the confines of what's been provided - RTWP or Turn Based, cool downs whatever - you just adapt to the particular game developers rules within the wider D&D ruleset & learn how to play & enjoy the game - its not so hard.

Last edited by Tarorn; 20/02/21 01:31 AM.
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Quebec
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Quebec
Originally Posted by Tarorn
I think people just need to realise that every developer has their own take/vision on how a game should be played & there's not a lot we can do to change that.

Personally I love any D&D games but I just try to think this is a sandbox game for this particular studio/developer- sure it will have D&D rules but they will not be perfect - who cares? so long as the game is enjoyable, engaging, has D&D spells, monsters, characters etc thats all I want.

I just try to enjoy the game within the confines of what's been provided - RTWP or Turn Based, cool downs whatever - you just adapt to the particular game developers rules within the wider D&D ruleset & learn how to play & enjoy the game - its not so hard.
I for one am currently fixing my expectations. After the recent Patch 4 video/show, where not a word was said about the rule implementation, I am coming to terms with the fact it isn't exactly 5e (but still pretty close to it) so I can focus on... just enjoying what it is.
It is a Larian adventure game set in the Forgotten Realms universe.


Just like many other cRPGs before that did not use pure D&D rules.
My initial expectations were screwed when I saw WotC backing it directly and working closely with Larian I was told. In practice, they have carte blanche; fair enough.

I'll just roll with it, enjoy it for what it is, and not bother commentating in a way that hopes for a closer 5e implementation (i.e. commentating instead on what it is within the confines of its own ruleset).

Last edited by Baraz; 20/02/21 02:01 AM.
Joined: Jun 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
All D&D games are awesome....just some are more awesome than others

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Cleric of Innuendo
Offline
Cleric of Innuendo
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Rugby, UK
Originally Posted by simsurf
Fact: the devs are either lying about 5e implementation in a video game or are just lazy/incompetent and/or cutting corners to maximise profit. Just finished my second play through of the Solasta EA and it keeps getting better and better.
The forum rules clearly state that you should not insult or defame anyone.

DO NOT leave posts calling people liars, lazy or incompetent, whether that person is another poster or anyone else. Consider this a warning against your future posting language.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by simsurf
Fact: the devs are either lying about 5e implementation in a video game or are just lazy/incompetent and/or cutting corners to maximise profit. Just finished my second play through of the Solasta EA and it keeps getting better and better.

And again, in interview Swen always said that they would mix the rules and do something different. He always talked about it. Always. I don't understand where you all found that article where Larian says "we will follow dnd rules 100%".

I looked at steam and it only says that the game is "based on 5e". And yes BG3 does have something from 5e, but no one promised you a 100% copy or even a 50% copy. Larian has never hidden anything from you.

I'm not saying what would be good or bad in the game (don't kill me dnd fans, I know you), I'm just saying that they never lied to you about it.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Jul 2009
I
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
I
Joined: Jul 2009
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by simsurf
Fact: the devs are either lying about 5e implementation in a video game or are just lazy/incompetent and/or cutting corners to maximise profit. Just finished my second play through of the Solasta EA and it keeps getting better and better.

And again, in interview Swen always said that they would mix the rules and do something different. He always talked about it. Always. I don't understand where you all found that article where Larian says "we will follow dnd rules 100%".

I looked at steam and it only says that the game is "based on 5e". And yes BG3 does have something from 5e, but no one promised you a 100% copy or even a 50% copy. Larian has never hidden anything from you.

I'm not saying what would be good or bad in the game (don't kill me dnd fans, I know you), I'm just saying that they never lied to you about it.

You might want to read the initial press releases where Larian said they intend to do a faithful adaption of D&D. By now though its obvious that Larian only implements as much D&D as they think is necessary to get away with instead of implementing as much D&D with as few deviations as possible which is what their initial statement implied.

The existence of Solasta shows that the changes Larian did to D&D are not required because of the video game medium. They were done because Larian didn't want to follow the D&D rules in those cases.

Larian is simply the wrong studio for BG3. That game already has the problem that it plays very different from BG2 because of several edition changes, but that problem is compounded by Larians own style which has nothing in common with wither BG2 of D&D5. The feeling of BG3 is also very different than in BG2 also thanks to Larian as they want to do goofy, over the top stories. You can see that in how every action in BG3 has an exaggerated animation which would put William Shattner to shame and light effects bathing the whole screen in effects. Or how they give you all those items to bypass resource restrictions so that you can talk with corpses and animals. Its obvious that Larian feels restricted by the D&D rules which is likely one of the reasons why they are only followed as much as necessary.

For old timers: BG2 was Costners Robin Hood. BG3 does not turn out to be a theoretical Robin Hood 2, but Mel Brooks Men in Tights.

Last edited by Ixal; 20/02/21 02:20 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by simsurf
Fact: the devs are either lying about 5e implementation in a video game or are just lazy/incompetent and/or cutting corners to maximise profit. Just finished my second play through of the Solasta EA and it keeps getting better and better.

And again, in interview Swen always said that they would mix the rules and do something different. He always talked about it. Always. I don't understand where you all found that article where Larian says "we will follow dnd rules 100%".

I looked at steam and it only says that the game is "based on 5e". And yes BG3 does have something from 5e, but no one promised you a 100% copy or even a 50% copy. Larian has never hidden anything from you.

I'm not saying what would be good or bad in the game (don't kill me dnd fans, I know you), I'm just saying that they never lied to you about it.

You might want to read the initial press releases where Larian said they intend to do a faithful adaption of D&D. By now though its obvious that Larian only implements as much D&D as they think is necessary to get away with instead of implementing as much D&D with as few deviations as possible which is what their initial statement implied.

The existence of Solasta shows that the changes Larian did to D&D are not required because of the video game medium. They were done because Larian didn't want to follow the D&D rules in those cases.

Larian is simply the wrong studio for BG3. That game already has the problem that it plays very different from BG2 because of several edition changes, but that problem is compounded by Larians own style which has nothing in common with wither BG2 of D&D5. The feeling of BG3 is also very different than in BG2 also thanks to Larian as they want to do goofy, over the top stories. You can see that in how every action in BG3 has an exaggerated animation which would put William Shattner to shame and light effects bathing the whole screen in effects. Or how they give you all those items to bypass resource restrictions so that you can talk with corpses and animals. Its obvious that Larian feels restricted by the D&D rules which is likely one of the reasons why they are only followed as much as necessary.

For old timers: BG2 was Costners Robin Hood. BG3 does not turn out to be a theoretical Robin Hood 2, but Mel Brooks Men in Tights.

I will read it with pleasure, please give me links.

I like Larian's style and I'm not a fan of the old games, so you shouldn't be talking about this with me. I admire their visualizations and I like chaoitic gameplay. We have different tastes. I'm also a fan of video games, not board games, I don't know anything about the DnD rules. But I also understand that someone likes other things, which is why I clarified that I'm not saying what's good and what's bad.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Oct 2020
N
member
Offline
member
N
Joined: Oct 2020
+1 i think this is a really good list and includes some feedback items that larian should pay closer attention too - i also agree with spectralhunter's comments earlier in the thread, but wanted to highlight this list in particular
Originally Posted by Etruscan
I was trying to think of the words to try to give an adequate answer to the question and I think you really nailed it. I would also like to add my own list, with some points in common:

- A day/night cycle complete with weather and a calendar/clock.
- The world felt alive. Myriad animals inhabited the wilderness, along with monsters and random encounters.
- BG 1 & 2 had moments of humour and silliness but it was not overdone. The characters were for the most part believable and not everyone had such extraordinary and mysterious backgrounds.
- No Origins characters. The focus was on you and your own character, not playing someone else's creation. I realise this is a contentious point but clearly the Origins characters are a big part of Larian's game design.
- 6 person party.
- A palpable sense of progression/achievement. Low level parties weren't exposed to a plethora of crazy monsters or locations from the outset. The right to face those foes and explore those places was gradually introduced.
- The world map was open without being a sandbox and was the antithesis of the theme park feel of BG3.
- Party interactions could happen anywhere and weren't triggered only when you rested. Which leads on to: you could rest anywhere, provided it was safe to do so (apart from in cities and towns where you had to find an inn).

Joined: Sep 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Sep 2020
Even Betrayal of Krondor had a day/night cycle.

Joined: Sep 2020
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Baraz
I am coming to terms with the fact it isn't exactly 5e (but still pretty close to it) so I can focus on... just enjoying what it is.
It is a Larian adventure game set in the Forgotten Realms universe.


Just like many other cRPGs before that did not use pure D&D rules.
My initial expectations were screwed when I saw WotC backing it directly and working closely with Larian I was told. In practice, they have carte blanche; fair enough.

I'll just roll with it, enjoy it for what it is, and not bother commentating in a way that hopes for a closer 5e implementation (i.e. commentating instead on what it is within the confines of its own ruleset).

This sort of consumer apathy is why games get made the way BG3 is being made, with very little concern for directed commentary or feedback and more focus on feelings and impressions - Saito's point about "fun" and "boring" front and centre.

Last edited by tsundokugames; 21/02/21 08:52 AM.
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5