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I'm a little disappointed. Not about what they showed, I like that stuff. I'm disappointed about what they didn't show. Now I have a better idea of how things are going so my expectations are lower. I'm guessing 1 class per patch and the final patch before launch will be the remaining companions. I'm not as frustrated as some others though even though I was hoping for paladin. I'm patient enough so I don't mind the waiting as much and the druid is cool even though its not my style. I enjoyed what they showed and its nice to see some stuff.

I'm just worried, borderline lost hope, for martial classes. They really look boring by comparison so far. I'm really hoping they go all out for barbarian and paladin. I like fighter, but jeez to me it feels like you have no options compared to the more flashy classes. Really a "feels" more than anything. Thats just me though. I've seen some upset, but I'm not one of them.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by fylimar
The soloing of the hag didn't go that well - where is bullse, when you need him, our solo expert

On a related note... Did you guys notice that Swen keep splitting up his party for no fucking reason whatsoever and suffering the most crushing defeats because of it?

He may not be willing to admit it openly, but in his own heart even he knows that Larian's party control in BG3 is utter shit and a borderline painful experience to endure.

I think he did it because he wanted to showcase how powerful the druid could be solo on the hag fight, but nonetheless, he did end up showing how terrible party management is in the game. Most of that "fight" was just him trying to get all of the party members to the right spot. Watching him dealing with the traps, then trying to bring in the two other members, felt like such a drag.

And he would have wiped long ago if he didnt know what to expect from the fight. Most of the time in the game, you HAVE to bring all of your characters one by one literally because you don't know what to expect from the fights and the last thing you want is to get outnumbered with half your party poorly positioned at the other side of the map. The game is just you learning the encounters by trial and error to the point you know them well enougj you can start to "exploit" them and from then, it's a cakewalk.

Micromanagement in this game breaks so much of the flow, at one point during the fight Sven even said "I'm not watching the chat but Im sure Im boring them" and he was right.

Last edited by Temperance; 17/02/21 09:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by fylimar
The soloing of the hag didn't go that well - where is bullse, when you need him, our solo expert

On a related note... Did you guys notice that Swen keep splitting up his party for no fucking reason whatsoever and suffering the most crushing defeats because of it?

He may not be willing to admit it openly, but in his own heart even he knows that Larian's party control in BG3 is utter shit and a borderline painful experience to endure.

Yeah, he did that a lot. I do it sometimes to get a group in the middle, but the group is not totally scattered. And I never leave those masks in the hags dungeon alive, it's just an unnecessary hardmode for the next fight.


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Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by ldo58
I couldn't watch, but such an event to announce one new class does seem like overkill.
Waiting for the release notes to see what bugs were fixed. I hope they did something to improve the camera movement to avoid watching floors and rocks while battle's going on out-of-sight.
I take it from the comments above that improvement of movement and ridiculous series of combat misses weren't addressed either.
The recording:

There is a new loaded dice option which makes the die roll less extreme (clusters the results more around 10 if I understood it right) which should address series of misses a bit (they are not totally gone though)

Originally Posted by Lunar Dante
Originally Posted by Ixal
Don't put too much hope into that. I doubt WotC has too much influence on Larian now although it would depend on the actual contract. But even if WotC threatens to not make future deals with them, which is probably the worst thing they can do, Larian has its own IP and does not depend on it.
I also doubt that WotC has a problem with Larian bending the rules. They are on a big D&D marketing offensive with games and the upcoming movie, so likely care more about a flashy presentation and name dropping than staying true to their rules.
Especially as with the recent books WotC has started to modify rules quite heavily themselves.

Could we count on your signature for the petition ?

Sorry, no.
I do not believe in online petitions and in the end Larian should make the game they want and the commercial success or failure will prove them right (or not).

Personnally, I am sad when part of a commercial success is based on a lie. "True to D&D5" is so far a lie.

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Watching this with a group of fans was pretty fun. Druid class isn't interesting to me, but I'm willing to try it. I think the manner of drumming up excitement for this coming patch really works for the people who actually get excited, interact on twitter and spread the word around and I think that's the point. The people who will gush about the new features and overall who participate in fandom seemed to have a good time.

For all other folks, its worth it to read between the lines under the school play performance if you think that stuff is cringe rather than endearing. One of the main focuses of half the EA is the Druids Grove. They just properly implemented the class of half the potential combatants in the Grove. They've added different ways of handling situations with the Druid tag - and in expanding the end result of saving the grove there may be expansion of the Goblin route. Hell, I'm hoping Kagha gets some emphasis, seeing as I believe it's her voice narrating the patch trailer. I welcome glorious bug fixes.

I feel like a few of you who are disappointed will be able to get interested once the patch notes come out on patch day.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by fylimar
The soloing of the hag didn't go that well - where is bullse, when you need him, our solo expert

On a related note... Did you guys notice that Swen keep splitting up his party for no fucking reason whatsoever and suffering the most crushing defeats because of it?

He may not be willing to admit it openly, but in his own heart even he knows that Larian's party control in BG3 is utter shit and a borderline painful experience to endure.


I also noticed that he kept focusing on shoving as his key to victory, as opposed to any of the D&D mechanics available to him. For better or for worse, he comes off as the type of D&D player that will never take an action per the rules but always needs to do something "creative" lol, like :

DM: Sven, it's your turn, the monster is prone and helpless before you with *hint hint* 1 hp, what do you do?

Sven: I'm going to do a dope backflip onto that far away platform, MacGyver a bomb from the fertilizer I have in my inventory, toss it into the chandelier, blow that up so that broken glass falls everywhere, and while that's happening I'm going to cast minor illusion (because it's always minor illusion) into the flying crystals so a holographic light show of this monster's defeat at our hands will replay as a 360 degree projection, and the monster will have to see and be reminded of the humiliation that it suffered at our hands.

DM: ... you fail your acrobatics check and break your neck.

Last edited by Topgoon; 17/02/21 09:57 PM.
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Well, I'm the eternal optimist, and I hope I can inject a little bit of hope into this discussion. There have been 4 months of game development, and I believe the fact that little of it has touched what we have seen in Early Access bodes somewhat well. It means that they're forging ahead and working on what is to come. If there has been a conspicuous little done in what we have seen, that means that there must have been a lot done in what we have not, which I find comforting.


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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by fylimar
The soloing of the hag didn't go that well - where is bullse, when you need him, our solo expert

On a related note... Did you guys notice that Swen keep splitting up his party for no fucking reason whatsoever and suffering the most crushing defeats because of it?

He may not be willing to admit it openly, but in his own heart even he knows that Larian's party control in BG3 is utter shit and a borderline painful experience to endure.


I also noticed that he kept focusing on shoving as his key to victory, as opposed to any of the D&D mechanics available to him. For better or for worse, he comes off the D&D player that will never take an action per the rules but always needs to do something "creative" lol, like :


DM: Sven, it's your turn, the monster is prone and helpless before you with *hint hint* 1 hp, what do you do?

Sven: I'm going to do a dope backflip onto that far away platform, MacGyver a bomb from the fertilizer I have in my inventory, toss it into the chandelier, blow that up so that broken glass falls everywhere, and while that's happening I'm going to cast minor illusion (because it's always minor illusion) into the flying crystals so a holographic light show of this monster's defeat at our hands will replay as a 360 degree projection, and the monster will have to see and be reminded of the humiliation that it suffered at our hands.

DM: ... you fail your acrobatics check and break your neck.

Sounds like another of critical role's Scanlan MVP moves right there.

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Excited for Druids, but the way they hyped up this patch made me think there was going to be more than just a new class. I was really hoping for the Druid companion, or even Act "1-B" to be part of it. However, if this patch is as big as they're saying it'll be, presumably most of the content related to a meatier update with stuff like other classes, new areas, and new quests will be included in Patch 4. Which means I'm curious to see what Dataminers find when they work their magic.

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by fylimar
The soloing of the hag didn't go that well - where is bullse, when you need him, our solo expert

On a related note... Did you guys notice that Swen keep splitting up his party for no fucking reason whatsoever and suffering the most crushing defeats because of it?

He may not be willing to admit it openly, but in his own heart even he knows that Larian's party control in BG3 is utter shit and a borderline painful experience to endure.


I also noticed that he kept focusing on shoving as his key to victory, as opposed to any of the D&D mechanics available to him. For better or for worse, he comes off as the type of D&D player that will never take an action per the rules but always needs to do something "creative" lol, like :

DM: Sven, it's your turn, the monster is prone and helpless before you with *hint hint* 1 hp, what do you do?

Sven: I'm going to do a dope backflip onto that far away platform, MacGyver a bomb from the fertilizer I have in my inventory, toss it into the chandelier, blow that up so that broken glass falls everywhere, and while that's happening I'm going to cast minor illusion (because it's always minor illusion) into the flying crystals so a holographic light show of this monster's defeat at our hands will replay as a 360 degree projection, and the monster will have to see and be reminded of the humiliation that it suffered at our hands.

DM: ... you fail your acrobatics check and break your neck.
Personally, I love players like that. Wacky and creative solutions to problems make DnD the great game that is. Thats an excessive action, I must agree, but having players try something creative that's kind of a long shot is always hilarious and fun. I find your mockery confusing.


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Originally Posted by Amadis33
Excited for Druids, but the way they hyped up this patch made me think there was going to be more than just a new class. I was really hoping for the Druid companion, or even Act "1-B" to be part of it. However, if this patch is as big as they're saying it'll be, presumably most of the content related to a meatier update with stuff like other classes, new areas, and new quests will be included in Patch 4. Which means I'm curious to see what Dataminers find when they work their magic.

Going by the press for the Patch 4 announcement, this is essentially all we're getting this time around. Honestly, with the pace of content being released I'd rather they not even bother updating EA beyond bug fixes until release and instead actually tell/show people what they're working on. I don't see the point of an EA where nothing significant really changes when they could've released a (free) demo and been done with it.

On another note, it definitely seems they're leaning into the "everything must be AWESOME" design philosophy, which (for me) doesn't bode well. You can get around designing a game system based on "what looks/feels cool" in a FPS and such because they're typically a) much shorter, b) faster paced, and c) less numbers-oriented, but for a party-based RPG this doesn't fit at all. Focusing on over-the-top cheese mechanics because they seem cooler than standard rules is a good way to end up with a very broken combat system that funnels players into a certain style of play. I think the new Pathfinder stands in contrast to this because combat is both engaging and thoughtful in a way BGIII isn't.

Last edited by Dan Quail; 17/02/21 10:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Personally, I love players like that. Wacky and creative solutions to problems make DnD the great game that is. Thats an excessive action, I must agree, but having players try something creative that's kind of a long shot is always hilarious and fun. I find your mockery confusing.

But if every encounter becomes like this, it is no longer wacky or funny or innovative. An instance like that would be wonderful once in a while, if that, but not all the time and that is precisely the issue.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
I doubt WotC has too much influence on Larian now although it would depend on the actual contract.
They definitely have influence. It is a billionaire company, they pay the best lawyers to write such contracts, and since they have the bargaining power, it makes sense that they write the contracts in their favor.
Originally Posted by Ixal
I also doubt that WotC has a problem with Larian bending the rules. They are on a big D&D marketing offensive with games and the upcoming movie, so likely care more about a flashy presentation and name dropping than staying true to their rules.
I still think its illogical to not enforce the rules, given that doing so could lead to cross-sales and sell more books, which would in turn create more D&D fans that would consume other D&D products.
The game can be flashy and cinematic AND follow the rules. Gamers will play regardless, the D&D crowd will be turned down though, and the books are more popular than ever.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
If you want a comparison, Owlcat is currently streaming from the Wrath Beta in turn based mode
Code
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRWsYGoz-U

Now you tell me which one looks more like BG3

omg, that looks so good.

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Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Personally, I love players like that. Wacky and creative solutions to problems make DnD the great game that is. Thats an excessive action, I must agree, but having players try something creative that's kind of a long shot is always hilarious and fun. I find your mockery confusing.

The comment was a reply to a sub-discussion about "unnecessary actions that lead to crushing defeat", so that's kind of the context to it.


I agree that creative actions should be encouraged at the table, but the context definitely matters.

An "always creative" player can become completely detrimental to the group (key being always) when every one of their turns takes 5-10 minutes longer than anyone else because it becomes a bargaining session between them and the DM. It's also problematic when said "creative" player is coming up with those solutions by completely neglecting to read the actual description of their abilities or spells.

E.g. "I'm going to minor illusion the orc's zombie mother screaming at her son to scare the orc" isn't a creative use of the spell - it just actively dismisses the limitations of it. Extra points of bad if they've never actually met the orc's mother.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Ixal
I doubt WotC has too much influence on Larian now although it would depend on the actual contract.
They definitely have influence. It is a billionaire company, they pay the best lawyers to write such contracts, and since they have the bargaining power, it makes sense that they write the contracts in their favor.
Originally Posted by Ixal
I also doubt that WotC has a problem with Larian bending the rules. They are on a big D&D marketing offensive with games and the upcoming movie, so likely care more about a flashy presentation and name dropping than staying true to their rules.
I still think its illogical to not enforce the rules, given that doing so could lead to cross-sales and sell more books, which would in turn create more D&D fans that would consume other D&D products.
The game can be flashy and cinematic AND follow the rules. Gamers will play regardless, the D&D crowd will be turned down though, and the books are more popular than ever.
i agree with danielbda - if anything, id argue that wotc has a history of being fairly protective of the content and image of their licenses/ips, including fairly recently.

altho if wotc did have an issue with larians approach to bg3 theyd likely have taken some action, but based on the panel comments from today they seem not too concerned - which concerns me, lol

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Originally Posted by ste100
No date for the patch ???

Aaaaaaaaaa...

Well, after the first panel from hell, patch 1 came out 2 months later so patch 4 should be out in April, maybe.

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
I don't mind the pace of the progress (got plenty of games to play) - but this does tell me we're really far out from a release.

It's not just that only half the classes are available at this point - this current system - especially the UI (i.e. the level up menu, etc), does not take multi-classing into mind at all. Meaning even once they implement all the classes, they'll need also go through tons of changes to implement multiclassing.

Multiclassing is an optional rule though and I will be surprised if Larian bothers to do it for release.

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I am happy and satisfied after all at least one more class released Druid.

Oh on the other hand I do NOT want Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 released in Early Access at all! I do not cry for higher level then 4 in Early Access.

There was though area 1B undone of Early Access Act 1.

Well they have increased if I exaggerate perhaps slightly from roughly 150 to 400 developers which is huge. It is also Epic they have persons in the team that have made LOTR or Starwars movies.

It is also EPIC they code it in different times zones and newest group is in UK which is nice though Belgium is roughly same time zone as UK... but the point here was to increase the amount of developers.

I was not disappointed.

Druid released in Circle of the Moon and Circle of the Land which is great. Now if some hardcore DD player here want it more close to DD fuck that idea I think. They did give shape shifting in Moon form as free action (number shapeshift/day still limited) but you can not shape shift to all forms forget Dinosaurs and Tyrannosaurus Rex.

A lot of other small things , but I rather not mention them check by playing or see the youtube video.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 17/02/21 11:44 PM.
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I love druids and am excited to play them in the next patch! The various animals look great (except for the spider), and I also like that they are adding a quest for druids. Another thing I am happy to see is that they are adding the ability to target spells by clicking on character portraits. I always enjoy the cinematic updates as well.

Last edited by Icelyn; 17/02/21 11:39 PM.
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