Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General The importance of PC voice in RPGs

I am a bit RPG buff, so I own and played most RPGs since 90s.

Generally, there is no feature that any games need by default. You might have a point here when it comes to marketing - main stream crowd might expect VO, open world, battle royals and whatever is popular right now. Those things, however, don’t necessary make a good RPG and might not be a good fit for the project depending on what they aim for. And if your aim is to create a cRPG - a game in which you give player freedom to heavily customise their character, including their race, sex, class, alignment, background and moment to moment decision making - then overriding all that with authored VO for better production value, is just counterintuitive. It’s like forcing your character to use certain weapon “for more immersive animations”, because look how well Devil May Cry5 looks. Different games, different goals.

And historically, more expensive production value results in a weaker RPG. Bioware catalog moves closer to action games then RPG, the more they invest in presentation, over roleplaying. While there are obvious examples (Fallout2>Fallout3>Fallout4, Dragon Age:Origins>Dragon Age:2,3). Cutscenes and VOs are influences from non-interactive mediums. There is a reason games like Dishonored barely use character cutscenes - choosing how you play and seeing the world react to you is the point of the game. Taking that away, and making it more like Call of Duty would directly undermine the fun of the game. Similarly, if players are asked to author a character in an RPG, taking control away from them is undermining their ability to roleplay.

Witcher3 is a worldwide bestseller - but it is barely an RPG. More importantly, it works well not because it is fully voiced, but because it stars a well defined main character with set race, sex, age, background, political and philosophical viewpoint, set romantic interests and set agendas. Players have no control over any of it. As such VO and cutscenes can present this character in-game better then they could with just text. What is Baldur’s Gate3 hoping to communicate through cutscenes and VO? What direction can they give to actors? What decisions they can make when composing the shots if they don’t know what could possibly be coming through characters head? I see only two options: either the VO and directing will be as bland as possible - which is bad. Or they will make choices as to how your character feels and thinks which will be constantly at odds which what player is having in his/her mind. While it’s work in progress, BG3 early access seemed to do both - from unimaginably (and buggy) staged close up conversations, that have nothing further to add through direction, to those odds moments when our character reacts with some over the top reaction for no good reason.

Yep, I will sign that!

Have you ever played, say, Mass Effect with a black character? Or Dragon Age 2? I'm not even american and i wouldn't do either, simply because i've heard enough people talk to know the voices don't fit. It's the same general concept. Voice is a part of roleplay since forever, and it can detract from the experience more easily than it enhances it if your character doesn't fit their voice. For example, in Fallout 4 i couldn't play anything other than a depressed dad going out for milk, unless i got myself the silent mod (urrah) or tuned him out constantly.

Also, i'm told voice acting is like singing. Everyone's good at it in the shower, less so in a recording studio

I'm not confident that's a race thing. Racial cultural segregation is very much still a thing in the US and I would argue this is responsible for 90% of what you're referring to. I've met many people from many races who I wouldn't be able to tell their race from their voice alone. For example:


I think it's fair to say that you might need to reflect on some of your biases if you think that there are some voices/accents that are inappropriate for members of a certain race, particularly when we're dealing with a fantasy setting where ethnicity is wholly constructed.

It might be worthwhile having voice options that are coded to a variety of ethnic groups simply for representation's sake. It'd be cool to have some (authentic) Australian voices, but that isn't really a roleplaying thing.


Based on how much some people here seem to think that VOs get paid, I'm pretty sure I could justify a few years of training to bring myself to the right level of skill.

Yes but you have to look at it from a business standpoint as well. Hardcore "roleplayers" is a very small, very niche group of people. When studios make games, whether you like it or not, it is to appeal to a much larger customer base. So yes, VA and production value make a big difference in sales. The days of text non speaking games are in the past, because lets be honest the majority of people don't even like to read menus let alone a game full of text boxes. I will disagree with you about Witcher, because RPG is not just defined by how you roleplay your character (as in like the old day D&D days, it is making decisions that define what your character is going to be. To say that it isn't TRUE RPG because it is a set character, with a set voice, and I mean this in the most respectful way as I can, sounds like elitest drivel (because I do enjoy your posts and find them well thought out and presented and you don't seem like one of these obnoxious angry people). There is also a very large difference between a RPG having voice and being called more like Call of Duty, I mean that is about as apples and oranges as you can get.

They can't make games that are only attractive to people that go to D&D cons, that roleplay their favorite character and want to live in the days of the past. For better or worse, developers have to worry about production value more and more. I play a lot of RPGs (all the Diablos, All of the ME, DA, I played BG way way back when but unlike some I don't view it as some religious experience, DOS 1&2, I mean I can't list them all), I vary my characters and make the choices I see that version of the character would make and what I want to achieve with that character. Just because I don't feel the need to visualize my character with a particular accent, or particular tone of voice, or enjoy the cinematic experience of seeing and hearing well acted scenes, does not mean I am not role playing. I dare say, the majority of gamers out there, especially in the video game market tend to feel the same.

Not sure what black people you have hung out with, but they don't all talk ghetto. I know a number of people of color that on the phone, you would have no idea what race they were.

That is an awesome idea in regards to the variety of groups for voice, that would be so freaking awesome.

And don't get me wrong I am all for that for you, the more options to make a game enjoyable the better. That is why I think they should offer both voices for the PC, and an option to not have voice.

fair enough

The only video game series for elite hardcore roleplayers. Change my mind.

Sure, but does Miles Morales sound like a white person to you? 'Cause that's what i'm talking about. Of course Tyrone Shepard, who grew up in spaceships and some such, could lack the speech cadence of a black person, but does it make it any less eyebrow raising for me, a subscriber of Tyrone Magnus? Not really.

Anyway, that was just the initial part of my point, and i'm pretty sure it was in response to something you said about accents not mattering.

What i really stand for is the second part of my argument, the one about how a character being voiced inherently takes away some roleplay options more than it gives in a 'classic' rpg, either because the two or three different personalities don't mix well together (see DA2), or because there are simply no different personalities but just slight variations (see Fallout 4 and Inquisition, where the MCs always sound mild-mannered).

Of course, in a game where i can play 10 different races, i might also just find it jarring that Ghur-Druz, half-orc warrior, has the same voice as Pinky-winkle, halfling sorcerer.

No, we don't. What makes money is not in OUR best interests, it is in the developers best interests, those two are very often in conflict. Your argument could defend lootboxes, just because it makes money doesn't mean that it is good for the game.


Not as small as you think, though it is irrelevant anyway.


Targeted marketing, stretching wide makes for a poor product.


You came to this conclusion how?


The days of picking your class and race are in the past, because lets be honest, most people just play human fighter and don't like to think about what to pick.


Witcher is a great RPG, but it is a different kind of RPG, Withcer to Baldur's gate 3 is what Doom is to Call of duty, both shooters but very different. In Witcher you roleplay the character you are given, in Baldur's gate 3 you can make your own. Adding a voice to a custom PC is like adding a Plasma gun to Call of duty, it might be fun but it makes no sense and makes the game worse. It would make sense to ask for VA for all the origin characters though.


I don't go to D&D cons and I don't live in the past, but I want to play atleast SOME games where I can make MY character, even though I don't have a problem with playing pre-set character if the game is good.


See, you put Diablo, ME and BG in the same category, but the 3 games are part of three very different sub genres of RPGs, you could just as easily add GTA to that list, you could say that God of War and Devil may cry are also RPGs, since you take on a role of a character and play as them, but we are talking about different kind of roleplaying here. They are not the same, and what makes one of those genres better makes the other one worse.


You are free to have your opinion and tastes and to propose VA to be implemented, and it's cool that it does not bother you, but VA objectively takes away from customization, UNLESS, as I have stated in one of my other posts, there are metric tons of different voices and demenours to pick from, but that will never happen.


You are trying too hard to justify the way you feel by saying many others feel the same. How many people agree with you is irrelevant, you are still allowed to have your opinion, and your position doesn't become weaker / stronger depending on how many people think the same.

Precisely. The point was the exaduration. Comparing game with heavily customisable characters, to other fully voiced RPGs is like comparing apples to oranges.


Why? Larian already proved superbly successful without full, VO and fancy cutscenes. Generally, the more you spend the more you need to sell. And I am perfectly happy with Larian just being very successful - I don’t need them to be the most successful ever. If you make a game, and make more money then you invested in it, it’s surely good enough. If making more money then that requires undermineing, rather then expanding, of what the game is about, then surely that’s not a good way to go.

And if Larian isn’t interested in making a game about role-playing, but a spin off using some roleplaying game appeal (like h&s diablos using loot system, story driven action-adventure like Witcher3), in this case a systemic coop sandbox game (which I think that is what D:OS was better described as) - why on earth would you use D&D? It’s just a bad fit. That would explain why Larian feels the need to modify it so extensively, but if so: why use the IP? It just seems to lead to a weaker title then straight up D:OS3 or actual BG3. Was additional funding really that substantial?

The point is that accents are cultural, not racial. Miles Morales wouldn't sound like that if he grew up in South Africa.

America's one of the few countries where a racial minority is isolated enough to create its own distinctive accent. If someone grows up in Australia, they sound Australian. There's no way to tell their race with your eyes closed. It was actually pretty funny, working in a call centre when customers would spontaneously try to guess your ethnicity. One of my colleagues was a white guy who occasionally got accused of being black because he had a French accent. (Australia does take in a few refugees from French-speaking African countries.）


In a fantasy setting, it 100% doesn't matter. In a future setting accents also ought to matter less. The idea that the effects of American segregation would still linger 200 years in the future or whatever is something that would have pretty deep implications. Additionally, despite having some kind of accent, if you're still reading from pre-written dialogue, then you're not going to be using the correct dialect for the accent anyway.


I just find it inherently dull to be removing your character's personality just so that you can project personality onto them. In your head, when you're roleplaying an angry black dude or whatever, no one else cares. No one's going to feel intimidated because in your head you imagine that your shouting. No one's going to ask you to repeat yourself because your accent is a bit too thick and they couldn't understand you.


They won't, unless you assign them both the same voice in the same playthrough. I'd definitely be hoping that Larian provides enough options that you'll be able to avoid that.


Baldur's Gate is a Bioware game. That alone should speak for itself, but...

Baldur's Gate was never meant to be the roleplaying holy grail you seem to remember it as. Even at the time, there were plenty of other video games that were more built for roleplayers. The Might & Magic, and Ultima video game series for example. What made Baldur's Gate special was the quality of storytelling and the well-written prebuilt characters who joined your party.

Baldur's Gate came out in 1998, one year after Ultima Online, which was really the ultimate medieval roleplaying video game at the time.

Eh, let's just agree to disagree. We see things differntly, and i think this is an exercise in futility, on both sides, seeing how BG3's current system could support both options.

Imma just say i hope it does, while secretely i'm actually only praying for the silent to stay/be implemented 'cause i'm selfish and only care about my experience

not to derail this, but using the phrase "talk ghetto" would be considered inappropriate (some would say racist). AAVE is the more linguistic term for it (African American Vernacular English). It's actually quite an interesting subject (that I know almost nothing about lol)

I am doing another playthrough right now of DOS2, an the main character has more voice in it than in this game. If they can do it for origin characters, they can do it for custom characters just as easy. Why not use D&D? Or a game BASED on D&D which is a entirely different matter. Keep this in mind, with all these complaints by D&D players, WoTC has signed off on all this stuff.

@Kadajko

Not going to waste time on every little reply you split up so I will condense it for you. Trying to argue that it is the same thing to appeal to a broader playerbase as lootboxes is just hilarious. As for your Targeted marketing to just focus to the D&D enthusiasts, good luck with that from a studio paying 300 people to work on a game. I think a kickstarter game would have more of a goal like that. Your comment about everyone picking a human fighter is just pretty much wrong.Your comment about you wanting to make your own custom character in some games, guess what, no one is stopping you. Want to make your player sound like a Disney princess go for it. I don't care. I think that is why from the beginning I have stated they can offer a choice to have the voice over play or not. Your the one trying to justify your opinion by trying to want the game to cater to just your needs. Not even going to bother commenting on your last 3 replies.

Oh God spare me...

At least you have the guts to admit it, I can respect that.

Conversely, I have had many white friends whose speech was far more what I would consider "Ghetto" than what is generally spoken by a good 75% of my black friends.

Back to the subject at hand though... While certain vernaculars and accents would be fitting and more immersive for different races/groups/areas of origin/etc. I cannot help but think back to a certain NPC in a certain previous D&D setting RPG who... Coooo! Always had a very particularly irritating way of speaking... Cooo! and I think it would be best to try and avoid that... even if it does mean a bit less variation in the dialects used within the game... Coooooo!

I would like to have my player character be much more vocal, but perhaps an option in character creation (under where the voice itself is selected) to make them anywhere from the current almost mute to a moderate setting or an exceptionally verbose setting would be nice. I wonder if that would be too much to ask for?