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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Fun fact, I check one game news site today where there was news about patch 4. And comments was "how cool! wow!" and everything like that.
Breaking news: people with superficial understanding, limited knowledge and no direct experience of what's going on an Early Access/closed beta are easily impressed by vague reporting about the novelties.

What did you expect, a bunch of random observer that didn't spend a single minute in EA having strong opinions about gameplay mechanics, UI or controls?

Seems like game journalists are just as good at ignoring these forums as Larian is.


Game journalists are no better/different to any other kind of journalist. They want to make the story rather than report fact. Not always the case but often enough to have an impact. Case in point for me was the Steelseries ArctisPro Wireless gaming headset. Hyped to the nines but very average performance. Problem is most gamers (sadly) are probably not hardcore/longterm serious players with years and a lot of money/time invested. A lot of gamers will jump on the next best thing then move on. We are different, we invest. I think BG3 will be stunning and a high point in RPG history but it can never please everyone.

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I have an issue with social medias, forums comprised: they gave a distort perception of reality.

Some numbers: in the Larian forums there are 57200 users, with inscriptions that range from 2003 to 2021, and wich comprises active and inactive users. Of this 38100 have made at least 1 post. Of this 38100 only 5811 have made at least 10 posts. Sadly I can not access the single room numbers so I don't have the specific vision of what happen in the BAldur's Gate 3.

Nevertheless in that 5811 users that post we have to account people asking for help and suggestions, people replying to threads, people posting in the other Larian games' rooms, that is the actual numerosity of people giving suggestions and feedback is a small fraction of all the actual players around the world.

I'm sure Larian reads and consider what is written in this forum "Feedback and suggestion" room. Still they wight what comes out from this pages with all the data they have from crashes and bugs reports, other platforms and so on.

I'm not surprised Larian seems to not align with some of the suggestions posted here. Suggestions and feedbacks that are deeply debated, there is not even a single feedback that has a majority consesus here, I wonder how much thos suggestions are really supported from all the players whose diversity and composition surelly is not represented by this forum.

A clear example of this is the paragon between the explotation of the possibilities given by the creation character options and the diversity of characters that comes out from the "Post a picture of you character" and the first analisys published by Larian that showed how the toons created by players was almost homogenous with human toons and human like elves being the most used.

Based on that I wonder how many people that is not in the forum really have issues with the perceived not accompliance with DnD core rules or lore? How many players are really annoyed by scroll and barrel mancy? How many buyers do find annoying the heigh/backstab perceived advantages? How many people has really reported the awful movement system? And so on.

Larian developpers have a lot more of data than the suggestion and feedback that comes from a part of this forum users.

I'll axe, or cheer, the game when it will be fully developed and out, until that I'll remember this is a really precocious early access and continue to debate about issues and suggestions but I'll, too, have in mind that even if Larian reads, and they've shown they do, this forum they weight whatever comes from here with all the data they have.

[Also at my age I know how to adapt and enjoy something even if is not made exactly as I want it].


Furthermore: refund? This is not a pre-order trial of a game, is a paid early access, I bought it with the consapevolence that the item could displease my expectations.

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Only been 4 months of EA look at the scope of the undertaking - look how much is going into this project - Larian are certainly hitching their wagon to this and it’s a great so far and improving all the time.
- as Sven noted EA ain’t for everyone-

Ps - umm they are working on the UI there was a number of improvents and it’s evolving as they develop the game.

Last edited by Tarorn; 18/02/21 10:23 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
I have an issue with social medias, forums comprised: they gave a distort perception of reality.

Some numbers: in the Larian forums there are 57200 users, with inscriptions that range from 2003 to 2021, and wich comprises active and inactive users. Of this 38100 have made at least 1 post. Of this 38100 only 5811 have made at least 10 posts. Sadly I can not access the single room numbers so I don't have the specific vision of what happen in the BAldur's Gate 3.

Nevertheless in that 5811 users that post we have to account people asking for help and suggestions, people replying to threads, people posting in the other Larian games' rooms, that is the actual numerosity of people giving suggestions and feedback is a small fraction of all the actual players around the world.

I'm sure Larian reads and consider what is written in this forum "Feedback and suggestion" room. Still they wight what comes out from this pages with all the data they have from crashes and bugs reports, other platforms and so on.

I'm not surprised Larian seems to not align with some of the suggestions posted here. Suggestions and feedbacks that are deeply debated, there is not even a single feedback that has a majority consesus here, I wonder how much thos suggestions are really supported from all the players whose diversity and composition surelly is not represented by this forum.

A clear example of this is the paragon between the explotation of the possibilities given by the creation character options and the diversity of characters that comes out from the "Post a picture of you character" and the first analisys published by Larian that showed how the toons created by players was almost homogenous with human toons and human like elves being the most used.

Based on that I wonder how many people that is not in the forum really have issues with the perceived not accompliance with DnD core rules or lore? How many players are really annoyed by scroll and barrel mancy? How many buyers do find annoying the heigh/backstab perceived advantages? How many people has really reported the awful movement system? And so on.

Larian developpers have a lot more of data than the suggestion and feedback that comes from a part of this forum users.

I'll axe, or cheer, the game when it will be fully developed and out, until that I'll remember this is a really precocious early access and continue to debate about issues and suggestions but I'll, too, have in mind that even if Larian reads, and they've shown they do, this forum they weight whatever comes from here with all the data they have.

[Also at my age I know how to adapt and enjoy something even if is not made exactly as I want it].


Furthermore: refund? This is not a pre-order trial of a game, is a paid early access, I bought it with the consapevolence that the item could displease my expectations.


I so want to like this post. I was contemplating, how to respond to the heated debates, that are going on right now in this forum, but you said it perfectly.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
Larian developpers have a lot more of data than the suggestion and feedback that comes from a part of this forum users.

See, this is what I don't get. If the opinions on this forum are just a drop in the ocean compared to all the data they're collecting through EA... and this forum is just a vocal minority, almost by definition... what's the point of this forum?

Why even have a Suggestions & Feedback section if it's just a vocal minority anyway? If everything that matters in the end are statistics, why bother? Why are we even here?
If you can disregard any criticism raised here because "vocal minority", this forum is pointless and should be shut down.

I'm not advocating for that, I'm just saying that's the only logical conclusion of your argument.

Last edited by Naerytar; 18/02/21 10:39 AM.
Nyloth #757011 18/02/21 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Honestly weird reading all this talk about the silent millions. Larian can't get 10k likes on twitter for the EA trailer, and the cinematic trailer on youtube got barely 1m views after almost 2 years. Seems like people like the shiny new thing - not even all that much - and not Larian.

Which is understandable, this is their first mainstream project, but alse makes it pretty hysterical that the one change they wouldn't have done otherwise, until now, (in the EA, not crowdfund gig) is making one of their characters smile more. Guess next one will be buff elf romance. If it isn't already there for a druid, that is.

That's about marketing. I'll be happy if they spend money on the game, not on marketing (like CD Projekt Red lol). This is how social networks and algorithms work. So all those likes don't really matter.

It would be very revealing if they had a lot of dislikes and few likes (hello blizzard), it would show a negative reaction from the community.

I sure hope they're spending all their money on the game. Hopefully it's enough to do properly all the things they wanna do.

But, anyway, my argument is that the main draw is Baldur's Gate, and there are no millions. And that, as of right now, the one big community-influenced 'fix' they implemented, that wasn't somethign so blatant they could have seen by themselves, was making SH smile more.

Like, i'm not even a big gameplay guy, my main thing is the story/lore/characters(/how messy those still are to explore), and i can't say i'm impressed.

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Ha, I asked for a refund a couple of weeks ago, but unfortunately I left it too late. That's £50 down the pan.

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I am really curious if any of you manage to get paid by refund. If so then please report it. I do not understand WHY they would refund in this case? I really do not do that.

Sven did say they have more then doubled the people working in Larian Studios due to BG3. On top of that they have professionals that have worked with movies like Starwars and/or Lord of the Rings movies in the project.

The progress in development has been a bit slow yes but they have now people coding in different time zones (though Belgium and UK is fairly near same time zone) it is in constant development (minus some special times example perhaps not on Weekends or on Eastern etc.).

They are putting a huge effort into this game. It can take time, but this game is in ALPHA.

and I would like to add this:

Well I am not saying this game is perfect far from it though I like BG3.

However I still feel they also make progress in some areas. Now using torch is much easier and not some freaking mess. I was so annoyed with the old torch way to use so I cast Cleric Light spell instead. Now they make so that using torch is much easier which is good.

Throwing healing bottle on dying companion no longer gives damage. While not realistic I do feel this as user friendly improvement. You can not give items to a companion that is dying so they could use it themselves so good improvement.

Optional: Loaded dice.... well it is free option to use or not. I think this should be automatically disabled if higher difficulty level then Normal.

These seem like small things, but a bit improvement. Well was the show perfectly smooth? No I feel there is room of improvement, but at least they make some progress. They have also made progress with path finding.

Druid class released which is great.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 18/02/21 12:27 PM.
Naerytar #757016 18/02/21 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Naerytar
Originally Posted by Bufotenina
Larian developpers have a lot more of data than the suggestion and feedback that comes from a part of this forum users.

See, this is what I don't get. If the opinions on this forum are just a drop in the ocean compared to all the data they're collecting through EA... and this forum is just a vocal minority, almost by definition... what's the point of this forum?

Why even have a Suggestions & Feedback section if it's just a vocal minority anyway? If everything that matters in the end are statistics, why bother? Why are we even here?
If you can disregard any criticism raised here because "vocal minority", this forum is pointless and should be shut down.

I'm not advocating for that, I'm just saying that's the only logical conclusion of your argument.

Forums are most likely for communication.

Between users and between Larian and users, but this does not mean that Larian should fulfill any desire of forum users. And I want to say right now Larian not good with communication, but it's more about time and other things. I'm pretty sure forum isn't used to gather the most important information for changes. It's just inconvenient. They have not only a forum, but also a form for sending errors. They have a community in steam, which is also writing something. Users write them something on Twitter. The forum is just one of the platforms, that's all. My opinion.

Most likely, they collect information from everywhere, not just from forum, and make some kind of their own result.


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Hilarian #757018 18/02/21 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Hilarian
I do like how people use words like "we" or "community" though. Even the forum or discord itself are barely hundreds from active users while the game has over a million players. Now, the issue is that you could add your own opinions about what needed to be changed about the game but that doesn't mean that the developers think it's something that should be changed or could be changed based on time and resources. First and foremost, you are just a consumer, not a stockholder. What you want added is just one of the voices, even in the forum, with hundreds of other suggestions. If you quit because the game doesn't incorporate what you think is important then it is more on you. There is a difference between demand and request, and unless you're a stockholder, I don't see the company obligated to do anything.

There's something I'd like to point out though. In the case of DOS2 (which I found to be horrible in my humble opinion in tons of different ways, story wise mostly, but it was definitely not to my taste gameplay wise also with all surfaces and movement mechanics, and classes lacking strong flavour, but I'm very glad some had a blast and I respect Larian for that), the game is highly praised all around the net and I, for one, would be the vocal minority if I choosed to come here and complain about what I didn't like in the game.
But, what I find very off putting, is the amount of people who actually finished the game. Given the percentages of achievements in steam and GoG about the unlocked endings, there's roughly a 10% of players who ended up finishing the game. To me, this says a lot about how people approached and played the game.

Most of them must have a RPG itch and went for the game because it had stellar reviews and it looked good (just as BG3). Yet, they didn't finish it. Two main reasons I see behind it : the lack of time, and the lack of will. Which says a lot about the flaws of the game.

Bottom line, the "vocal minority" on these forums may be very harsh on the game, but they'll be most likely the players who are willing to spend hours and hours to play it to the end.
From a commercial standpoint I guess those aren't priority (I mean, you're selling games, players finishing them isn't the main goal here afterall), but from a community and studio to players relationship point of view, this is quite alarming. Because those people willing to put hundreds on hours on your products, paying to play it in EA and to provide you with countless structured feedback, are the same who will stick with your product long after the hype is over and the swarm of players have gone somewhere else. Those dedicated people are necessary too, and they may be a vocal minority, but they often are able to put in proper perspective what other less dedicated players feel while playing. Their opinion shouldn't be discarded just because they're a "minority". Especially if it comes in a structured way and if it provides detailed feedback.

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Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
Screw this. I'm getting a refund if I can, uninstalling regardless. I compiled pages and pages of community responses into easily digestible summaries with clear actions that could be taken to address the concerns. Not a single mention of any of them, or any other community feedback.

Local nerd mad because game studio doesn't change game the way he wants to.
Dude, do you really think you are important? You are one voice in a million, and not a very smart one...

biomag #757021 18/02/21 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by biomag
Objectively BG3 might be a fun game. I'm certain many people will like it. For me though its definitely not even close to what they advertised and it follows DOS2 designs that I loathed. I can't believe how I bad I fell for their 5e-announcement forgetting how much I disliked DOS2... in any case they showed time and time again that they don't care about 5e.

They simply don't. They don't bother to keep the balancing and come up with utterly BS excuses with 'video games CAN be different therefore it CAN'T work as in the TT'. Not only didn't they do anything to fix previously created balancing issues regarding action economy, now they added another broken Druid ontop and used their hype video to show how the game is suposed to be played by exploiting rest, knowing combats and chessing every mechanic they added.


So yeah, I'm certain people will like the game. As much as I disliked DOS2, there are a ton of people who liked it. Does this make BG3 a good BG successor or like claimed a good 5e implementation? Nope. Not the slightest bit. And the annoying part for me is that those were the reasons I was willing to pay full price for an EA, while now I see that those, contrary to their own statements, are not priorities at all for their development.

I agree with what you said. I also disliked DOS2 (worst RPG I've played in a long time but for different reasons). I still think BG3 can be a fun to play game due to the power of mods.
The mod DnD Rebalancing alone attempts to fix most ruleset shortcomings and there's plenty more to come to make the game more fun for every taste.
I can half way understand why making BG3 a DOS3 and not a D&D game is focus for Larian. They had (unwarranted) major success with DOS2 and people know that game. Probably more than D&D fans who come for BG3. They also have experience with those mechanics, so it's easier to implement.

More work for the modders. But not a lost case. Yet.

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Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I am really curious if any of you manage to get paid by refund. If so then please report it. I do not understand WHY they would refund in this case? I really do not do that.
I share some significant parts of their criticisms, but clearly these people have some issues with entitlement and flair for the overly dramatic. At best this is playing to the gallery hoping that their voice will be heard above others. The line in the sand has been drawn...they really mean it this time! Repent your wicked ways Larian! They don't have a leg to stand on neither legally or morally expecting to be reimbursed of course. smile

This is coming from someone who has called Larian out for what I consider somewhat deceptive early marketing promising BG3 would be faithful to D&D as far as they could deliver a fun game. Seems to me Larian's approach to design is starting with their own brand of fun gameplay and attempting to fit in D&D as needed, rather than the other way around.

Last edited by Seraphael; 18/02/21 01:19 PM.
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That's fun reading about "vocal minority" and dbate about what's "many players" or not...
Doesn't anyone remember those surveys ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing

+- 1100 players answered, both from the official forum (501) and the reddit community (570).
Isn't that representative ?

Why should those asking for the game to think about those results should be called "vocal minority" ?
Because that's exactly what we're talking here on this forum. (Probably not on reddit anymore... it's been a long time since having a mind and a critical eye is no longer allowed on the BG3 sub)

Everyone could probably agree on many things if everyone was trying to understand things and other point of view.

You like dipping ? I could like dipping but not the way they implement it. Why would everyone reject something more immersive that becomes a meaningfull CHOICE ?
You like having bonuses through high ground ? I also like it but having tons of useless spells and features in a game is BAD.
You like backstab ? Why wouldn't you like flanking ? It would increase the synergies between melee characters A LOT.

There are tons of exemples we could talked about but it's a FACT that Larian implement things that break other things they implement...
It's a fact that they have broken (they will break) the balance and the usefullness of classes.
It's a fact that the difficulty of this game is a joke.

There are explanations... But of course it require a little bit more thinking than "cool, the druid is coming".

Last edited by Maximuuus; 18/02/21 01:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maikaz
Local nerd mad because game studio doesn't change game the way he wants to.
Dude, do you really think you are important? You are one voice in a million, and not a very smart one...

I would suggest politely, yet firmly that you f*cked off. Thank you for your cooperation.


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Yes, we are the vocal minority... We are the ones talking. More than 25 words of a tweet or a throw-away thumbs up, at least.

We are the community - or one of the main communities at least; we are the ones talking.

The supposed many-numbered multitude that dwarfs our presence into insignificance may indeed be a thing... but they are, each of them, out there playing the game in silence and alone (or with a few friends), and it is not enough to stir any of them to actually talk up about it, for good or bad. They are not a community; they are individuals in isolation, who do not connect with others over the topic. We are the community, because we are the ones talking. We don't all agree on just about anything - and that's fine; we're all individuals with different perspectives, but there are strong recurrent threads, and within the community, there are strong majority consensuses on a number of topics. There are many debates that go back and forth that will probably never reach agreement, because there are subjective sides to the point... but that makes the things over which the majority of the community agrees all the more important, because even though we don't all agree on just about anything, the one thing that is the same about everyone here is that they were invested, or stirred, enough to speak up.

When Larian says they listen to the community, and when they say they hear the community - they are not talking about that silent greater majority, who are not invested enough to talk about the game for good or for ill. They don't know what those people say or think, or want, because they are not talking. Larian does not, cannot, hear them about issues, good or bad. When they say they are listening to the community, it's us that they are talking about - because the silent greater majority are not saying anything.

And so, when they say they are listening to the community... but then they ignore all of the points upon which this community agrees most strongly and with the most consensus, despite their disagreements on a dozen other topics... some in this community tend to feel lied to, decieved, or betrayed... and it is not without justified cause.

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Originally Posted by Maikaz
Local nerd mad because game studio doesn't change game the way he wants to.
Dude, do you really think you are important? You are one voice in a million, and not a very smart one...

Originally Posted by Nibel
I would suggest politely, yet firmly that you f*cked off. Thank you for your cooperation.

Enough. Be polite or don't post at all.


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Before the start of EA, I very often fought with the "DOS3 haters squad", but a couple more such patches and I will most likely be among them...

...no you are not listening Larian, not at all.

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I think they have been listening, but I'm afraid I've little more idea how much of that listening will turn into things being implemented. I also apologise for my own lack of participation lately; unfortunately illness has been hampering things (not the plague, fortunately) so I've mostly been "relaxing" in Night City. Now there's a game with an interesting collection of its own issues...


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
That's fun reading about "vocal minority" and dbate about what's "many players" or not...
Doesn't anyone remember those surveys ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing

There are explanations... But of course it require a little bit more thinking than "cool, the druid is coming".
Interesting statistics. I missed weighting the different issues according to perceived importance. Questioning whether people had actually completed the games asked about, and if not, then why. I would have liked telling Larian why I never completed DOS2 (nor indeed most games) despite liking the combat, the story and characters and having had some of my most fun experiences in any game, if I thought they were genuinely interested.

Bear in mind though, that people who participate in early access are likely not quite representative of the potential playerbase at large. Also, people who are critical of something are more likely to be vocal than someone who is neutral or in favor of something. They are literally "the vocal minority", but still a stronger consensus than I would have thought even among the hardened core - so the data is far from meaningless.

Last edited by Seraphael; 18/02/21 01:46 PM.
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