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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Larian seem to really be winging things with this project, and wrap their brains around D&D. They’re surprised how many fire spells druids get?
I'm really excited for the Druid's unique ability to light their sword on fire!...
Let's be real, if the druid isn't using wild shape it'll probably be standing on higher ground with a crossbow. xD

Druid would probably do more damage and hit more too. smile

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Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong
Four months since the start of EA. 4...months.

How many community suggestions or feedback has been incorporated?

One, sort of. Which was *slightly* reducing ground effects even though it is still massively more than the community wants.

No response to Height/Backstab. No change in the terrible party movement controls. No change to the overpowered Bonus Actions. No change to *anything* the community actually wants.

Screw this. I'm getting a refund if I can, uninstalling regardless. I compiled pages and pages of community responses into easily digestible summaries with clear actions that could be taken to address the concerns. Not a single mention of any of them, or any other community feedback.

DOS 3 will be a fun game, but it will be the World War Z of video games. Taking nothing but the names from its source. People will play it, enjoy it, and move on. It will not have a community lasting 20+ years that still produces new content to the extent a whole new studio tries to make a sequel decades from now. It will be just another fun video game, not a sequel to one of the greatest RPGs ever made. See you all 3-4 months after release when it goes on goes on Steam sale.

No way only 4 months?

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
That's fun reading about "vocal minority" and dbate about what's "many players" or not...
Doesn't anyone remember those surveys ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing

+- 1100 players answered, both from the official forum (501) and the reddit community (570).
Isn't that representative ?

Why should those asking for the game to think about those results should be called "vocal minority" ?
Because that's exactly what we're talking here on this forum. (Probably not on reddit anymore... it's been a long time since having a mind and a critical eye is no longer allowed on the BG3 sub)

Everyone could probably agree on many things if everyone was trying to understand things and other point of view.

You like dipping ? I could like dipping but not the way they implement it. Why would everyone reject something more immersive that becomes a meaningfull CHOICE ?
You like having bonuses through high ground ? I also like it but having tons of useless spells and features in a game is BAD.
You like backstab ? Why wouldn't you like flanking ? It would increase the synergies between melee characters A LOT.

There are tons of exemples we could talked about but it's a FACT that Larian implement things that break other things they implement...
It's a fact that they have broken (they will break) the balance and the usefullness of classes.
It's a fact that the difficulty of this game is a joke.

There are explanations... But of course it require a little bit more thinking than "cool, the druid is coming".

I forgot completely about them. But then again, I didn't receive them.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Larian seem to really be winging things with this project, and wrap their brains around D&D. They’re surprised how many fire spells druids get?
I'm really excited for the Druid's unique ability to light their sword on fire!...
Let's be real, if the druid isn't using wild shape it'll probably be standing on higher ground with a crossbow. xD

let's be real, they probably end up doing it anyway. they will just use the wildshape to fly there wink

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Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
That's fun reading about "vocal minority" and dbate about what's "many players" or not...
Doesn't anyone remember those surveys ?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing

+- 1100 players answered, both from the official forum (501) and the reddit community (570).
Isn't that representative ?

Why should those asking for the game to think about those results should be called "vocal minority" ?
Because that's exactly what we're talking here on this forum. (Probably not on reddit anymore... it's been a long time since having a mind and a critical eye is no longer allowed on the BG3 sub)

Everyone could probably agree on many things if everyone was trying to understand things and other point of view.

You like dipping ? I could like dipping but not the way they implement it. Why would everyone reject something more immersive that becomes a meaningfull CHOICE ?
You like having bonuses through high ground ? I also like it but having tons of useless spells and features in a game is BAD.
You like backstab ? Why wouldn't you like flanking ? It would increase the synergies between melee characters A LOT.

There are tons of exemples we could talked about but it's a FACT that Larian implement things that break other things they implement...
It's a fact that they have broken (they will break) the balance and the usefullness of classes.
It's a fact that the difficulty of this game is a joke.

There are explanations... But of course it require a little bit more thinking than "cool, the druid is coming".

I forgot completely about them. But then again, I didn't receive them.

No one "receive" them.
It's unofficial polls that were shared here and on reddit a few weeks after the beginning of the EA.

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Right? 1 year!!! They've got a strong foundation but this game seems like it needs more than 1 year. Like I'm thinking this is 2 years at-least from release...but maybe they're really organized and have the entire world already planned on paper and the art assets are almost finished and their game engine is extremely efficient for implementing quests, NPC's, and world building. If they got all three of those things going for them then they might hit that deadline, and I guess if we consider the EA telemetry all the play-testing they'll need it could be possible. Although Ideally they put some elbow grease into online and by some miracle make it good cause right now it very much works but it's not a fun experience.

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Originally Posted by Raincolt
Right? 1 year!!! They've got a strong foundation but this game seems like it needs more than 1 year. Like I'm thinking this is 2 years at-least from release...but maybe they're really organized and have the entire world already planned on paper and the art assets are almost finished and their game engine is extremely efficient for implementing quests, NPC's, and world building. If they got all three of those things going for them then they might hit that deadline, and I guess if we consider the EA telemetry all the play-testing they'll need it could be possible. Although Ideally they put some elbow grease into online and by some miracle make it good cause right now it very much works but it's not a fun experience.

I was actually pretty disappointed in DOS2 when, after all the build up throughout the game, we finally got to the great city of Arx and it was really just a few roads and maybe a couple dozen buildings. There’s no way at all Baldur’s Gate itself is going to be anything but a major let-down, especially if they intend on keeping up this level of cinematic interaction for every single NPC. OK maybe if this game is released in 2025. I’d love to be proven wrong!

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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Originally Posted by Raincolt
Right? 1 year!!! They've got a strong foundation but this game seems like it needs more than 1 year. Like I'm thinking this is 2 years at-least from release...but maybe they're really organized and have the entire world already planned on paper and the art assets are almost finished and their game engine is extremely efficient for implementing quests, NPC's, and world building. If they got all three of those things going for them then they might hit that deadline, and I guess if we consider the EA telemetry all the play-testing they'll need it could be possible. Although Ideally they put some elbow grease into online and by some miracle make it good cause right now it very much works but it's not a fun experience.

I was actually pretty disappointed in DOS2 when, after all the build up throughout the game, we finally got to the great city of Arx and it was really just a few roads and maybe a couple dozen buildings. There’s no way at all Baldur’s Gate itself is going to be anything but a major let-down, especially if they intend on keeping up this level of cinematic interaction for every single NPC. OK maybe if this game is released in 2025. I’d love to be proven wrong!
I can say I like those cutscenes added. Did not like so much seeing the message under contruction (cutscene not yet done).

Well I am not saying this game is perfect far from it though I like BG3.

However I still feel they also make progress in some areas. Now using torch is much easier and not some freaking mess. I was so annoyed with the old torch way to use so I cast Cleric Light spell instead. Now they make so that using torch is much easier which is good.

Throwing healing bottle on dying companion no longer gives damage. While not realistic I do feel this as user friendly improvement. You can not give items to a companion that is dying so they could use it themselves so good improvement.

Optional: Loaded dice.... well it is free option to use or not. I think this should be automatically disabled if higher difficulty level then Normal.

These seem like small things, but a bit improvement. Well was the show perfectly smooth? No I feel there is room of improvement, but at least they make some progress. They have also made progress with path finding.

Druid class released which is great.


As for release date? 2021 or 2022. If year 2021 then very end of it and could be year 2022.
Sven did say they have more then doubled the people working in Larian Studios due to BG3. On top of that they have professionals that have worked with movies like Starwars and/or Lord of the Rings movies in the project.

The progress in development has been a bit slow yes but they have now people coding in different time zones (though Belgium and UK is fairly near same time zone) it is in constant development (minus some special times example perhaps not on Weekends or on Eastern etc.).

The entire Larian team of developers has grown to almost 400 people and that is freaking huge. Though I do not know how many of them specifically work with BG3 I do know that the big majority of them do that.

This is not some Indie game. With respect to small firms though (not hating Indie game development) this has talented developers example in Belgium, UK, America etc.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 19/02/21 07:52 AM.
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I have played Pen and Paper Dungeons Dragons though not 5th edition I have read more or less Players Handbook of 5th. Well is this perfect adaption of that? No it could be more close to DD rules. However sometimes I understand. Druid implementation example I agree that no you should not be able to shape change to a freaking Tyrannosaurus Rex. Instead they added at least for Circle of the Moon Druid shape change as extra free bonus action though number of times you can shape change/day is still limited. The Druid implementation is ok in my book and I would add that pretty cool to be able to shape change.

Polar Bear available to Circle of The Moon only (and remember you can cast spells before shape change) this is your number 1 melee form in combat if animal. Bird to be able to fly. Badger that is semi good at fighting (not as good as Polar bear) that can burrow under ground example go under the wall. Small cat good at stealth. You can also talk with animals in animal form automatically.

Big Spider? A bit unrealistically all other spiders will consider you as an ally or neutral and not attack (in real world spiders eat each other). You can climb very well and use spider net. Exactly how good are these forms we need to play test themselves. Example spider is still a bit unknown to me I doubt they can use as much spider net a real spider can do in bug wars.

If you doubt Polar Bear is number 1 in melee combat of these forms then please see this video (warning scary!):
Wild Polar Bear Tries To Break In - BBC Earth

Last edited by Terminator2020; 19/02/21 08:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by Terminator2020
[quote=LukasPrism][quote=Raincolt]Now using torch is much easier and not some freaking mess. I was so annoyed with the old torch way to use so I cast Cleric Light spell instead. Now they make so that using torch is much easier which is good.

Real question for my own information...

I don't really understand why I could use torch except on the ground (light or dipping). Caves, """dungeons""" and the underdark aren't really dark so I also don't use any source of light while exploring.

Do you really take a torch in your hands and switch between torch/weapons ? Why and when ?

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On my second playthrough BG2 (original version) this time with all the great community MODS everyone talks about. Just amazing.
Having more fun than BG3.
At that pace I hope EA goes into 2022.
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
[quote=LukasPrism][quote=Raincolt]Now using torch is much easier and not some freaking mess. I was so annoyed with the old torch way to use so I cast Cleric Light spell instead. Now they make so that using torch is much easier which is good.

Real question for my own information...

I don't really understand why I could use torch except on the ground (light or dipping). Caves, """dungeons""" and the underdark aren't really dark so I also don't use any source of light while exploring.

Do you really take a torch in your hands and switch between torch/weapons ? Why and when ?
Well not the the general Underdark so much. The crypt area had you know the beginning where you find Shadowheart banging the door. If you have not done Crypt area you have really missed like level 2 good stuff to do. In addition that ligth spell is a bit annoying on screen to much light see this picture of Crypt area:
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


There are some dark areas there in the Crypt. You can lit here and there candles and brazers to get light sources which is good idea.

I did not use any torch tried and then gave up and then decided easier to cast Cleric Light spell. As for holding torch in middle of combat...

You can switch between ranged and melee weapons also in middle of combat. As for what is best in tactical setting I would say light spell. That said a torch as exploring is nice to have. I have not fought with torch since have not used any torch yet.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, now that you've mentioned, I realized that Larian is building BG3 on a modified DOS engine, and they don't use Unity like most RPGs.
Damn, might it be that their engine cannot adapt 5e rules? As simple as they are?

I do not know hehe The question is: If it's simple why have they not done so already?

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Originally Posted by McDoney
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, now that you've mentioned, I realized that Larian is building BG3 on a modified DOS engine, and they don't use Unity like most RPGs.
Damn, might it be that their engine cannot adapt 5e rules? As simple as they are?

I do not know hehe The question is: If it's simple why have they not done so already?

Because "simple" does not equate with "easy".

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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
I was actually pretty disappointed in DOS2 when, after all the build up throughout the game, we finally got to the great city of Arx and it was really just a few roads and maybe a couple dozen buildings. There’s no way at all Baldur’s Gate itself is going to be anything but a major let-down, especially if they intend on keeping up this level of cinematic interaction for every single NPC. OK maybe if this game is released in 2025. I’d love to be proven wrong!
It's the process of Early Access and the hyper-focus solely on the first act that was the issue more than anything. So much feedback and improvements of the beginning, made DOS2 suffer from anticlimax. And now we repeat the process for BG3. Hopefully Larian remembers their mistakes and compensates by redoubling their efforts on the following acts (rather than ignoring much of the community feedback as seem to be an idea shared by many). Having Baldur's Gate city feel anticlimactic would be almost unforgivable.

Last edited by Seraphael; 19/02/21 01:22 PM.
Topper #757661 19/02/21 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Topper
Not a fan of Bulls and bears that can climb ladders but its fantasy. Anything goes. Right? I still have hope. Some will love it, others will weep. For the latter, another dev will surface and fulfill their dreams.
20 years.

The planet will change it's polarization before that happens for BG2 old fans ^^

Last edited by virion; 19/02/21 10:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Topper
Not a fan of Bulls and bears that can climb ladders but its fantasy. Anything goes. Right? I still have hope. Some will love it, others will weep. For the latter, another dev will surface and fulfill their dreams.
20 years.

The planet will change it's polarization before that happens for BG2 old fans ^^


Hey, these people don't speak for all of us. It's usually the few people that complain the most that get the most attention. Look at like... Google reviews, or Yelp for a restaurant that YOU know is good. But there are some bad reviews. Meanwhile the place serves hundreds/thousands of patrons per week. You only see the people that had some gripe complain. All the people that loved it felt no need to say anything, because they enjoyed themselves. I think it's much of the same here.

BG2/ToB is in my top 3 of all time, I've been playing it on and off through 20 years. I for one am excited to see what Larian brings to the table at full release. We only have a very small piece of the very large puzzle right now. We're realistically still 2~ years away from release. I've seen improvements over each patch. The patch notes weren't even released and everyone is like *lol I'm out cause Larian isn't catering to exactly me*

I have zero problem checking on the forums once a week (or longer) and if there's news cool. If not, I say oh well and move on to what I was doing. This is a massive game in scope. We're not going to see weekly blog updates (even more so because it's not fan funded).

More than anything, it amuses me to see how rustled to see some people getting when the game is so far from release. A year from now it could be completely different. And 2 years from now...who knows what it'll be.

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Originally Posted by odesseiron81
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Topper
Not a fan of Bulls and bears that can climb ladders but its fantasy. Anything goes. Right? I still have hope. Some will love it, others will weep. For the latter, another dev will surface and fulfill their dreams.
20 years.

The planet will change it's polarization before that happens for BG2 old fans ^^


Hey, these people don't speak for all of us. It's usually the few people that complain the most that get the most attention. Look at like... Google reviews, or Yelp for a restaurant that YOU know is good. But there are some bad reviews. Meanwhile the place serves hundreds/thousands of patrons per week. You only see the people that had some gripe complain. All the people that loved it felt no need to say anything, because they enjoyed themselves. I think it's much of the same here.

BG2/ToB is in my top 3 of all time, I've been playing it on and off through 20 years. I for one am excited to see what Larian brings to the table at full release. We only have a very small piece of the very large puzzle right now. We're realistically still 2~ years away from release. I've seen improvements over each patch. The patch notes weren't even released and everyone is like *lol I'm out cause Larian isn't catering to exactly me*

I have zero problem checking on the forums once a week (or longer) and if there's news cool. If not, I say oh well and move on to what I was doing. This is a massive game in scope. We're not going to see weekly blog updates (even more so because it's not fan funded).

More than anything, it amuses me to see how rustled to see some people getting when the game is so far from release. A year from now it could be completely different. And 2 years from now...who knows what it'll be.

I like your rationale and optimism; I wish I could feel the same with regard to the latter. Full release is some way off but we have possibly 1/4 or 1/3 of the full game to playtest and if we can deduce anything from the recent Panel from Hell stream it is that they *seem* to be doubling down on their own interpretation and implementation. Certain mechanics which have drawn a fair amount of feedback or criticism are yet to be acknowledged so we don't have any idea whether they plan to amend the party control mechanics, for example.

BG1 & 2 are also in my top 5 (rather than 3) games and I so desperately want this to be on a par with the previous games but I can't escape the feeling Larian have a different way of doing things and one which doesn't resonate with me on a personal level. I can respect that many love BG3 but I do not feel it currently looks like it will do justice to the legacy it is built on, which again I accept is probably of little relevance to most of the players, many of whom have never played BG1 or 2.

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Originally Posted by odesseiron81
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Topper
Not a fan of Bulls and bears that can climb ladders but its fantasy. Anything goes. Right? I still have hope. Some will love it, others will weep. For the latter, another dev will surface and fulfill their dreams.
20 years.

The planet will change it's polarization before that happens for BG2 old fans ^^


Hey, these people don't speak for all of us. It's usually the few people that complain the most that get the most attention. Look at like... Google reviews, or Yelp for a restaurant that YOU know is good. But there are some bad reviews. Meanwhile the place serves hundreds/thousands of patrons per week. You only see the people that had some gripe complain. All the people that loved it felt no need to say anything, because they enjoyed themselves. I think it's much of the same here.

BG2/ToB is in my top 3 of all time, I've been playing it on and off through 20 years. I for one am excited to see what Larian brings to the table at full release. We only have a very small piece of the very large puzzle right now. We're realistically still 2~ years away from release. I've seen improvements over each patch. The patch notes weren't even released and everyone is like *lol I'm out cause Larian isn't catering to exactly me*

I have zero problem checking on the forums once a week (or longer) and if there's news cool. If not, I say oh well and move on to what I was doing. This is a massive game in scope. We're not going to see weekly blog updates (even more so because it's not fan funded).

More than anything, it amuses me to see how rustled to see some people getting when the game is so far from release. A year from now it could be completely different. And 2 years from now...who knows what it'll be.

That's kinda what I said mate.

The thing is, personally I would love BG3 to have as big of an impact on the gaming industry as BG2 had. It's super hard to do nowadays. If they manage to do it in 10 years I will be supervising my son's 3rd playthrough of BG3.
If they don't , they will come back to Divinity: Original Sin. And I will be back to BG2.


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Originally Posted by odesseiron81
[quote=virion][quote=Topper]

...

More than anything, it amuses me to see how rustled to see some people getting when the game is so far from release. A year from now it could be completely different. And 2 years from now...who knows what it'll be.


Sadly we have no way of knowing that. And the poor communication on plans moving forward had made some people antsy. For people who wanted more accurate 5E - which this is not currently - they are justifiably nervous and/or frustrated by how the game is evolving. I watched the panel and saw nothing to encourage me there. So, I have dialled back my expectations and I definitely won't jump on a Larian EA again. Compare this to Solasta - it's a simpler game, but the 5E mechanical apsects are spot-on, even with their home-brewed parts (which don't undermine classes or the entire action economy/design philosophy of 5E). They also listen and respond to their community regularly - even when that community may come across as entitled and outraged. The have a reasonable explanation for all their design choices, and they're willing to talk. That was what I hoped for, having joined this EA late and having come straight from that very satisfying experience - and reading how valued the community interaction was. I have played enough of the game to say that I enjoyed parts of it, but I am also not blind to the major rules/design/balance issues, which have been elaborated on at length (along with lower-cost solutions). Except for the cantrip rebalance (apparently turning a flag off?) and allowing an extra short rest, nothing has been done to address the mechanical issues. I hope in the end that the story is sufficiently engrossing to make up for these issues. I quite enjoyed what I saw on that front, even though it is OTT in some respects.

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