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#757416 19/02/21 12:30 PM
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Production issues aside from Panel From Hell II, based on Swen's comments about adding offices and staff, I truly believe Larian is underequipped and understaffed to implement everything this game requires effectively.

Patches are taking longer because they aren't able to de-bug and program quickly enough even with their already tripled headcount from 2017. It still isn't enough and it shows in all the delays with every update and the lack of a clear timeline.

With everything else that needs to be added to the game, there is just no way Larian is going to meet a 2021 release date. They might still be missing classes and subclasses for EA at that time.

They are severely overwhelmed with this project and didn't anticipate all of the demand required to execute this successfully. I am worried they will start cutting corners sooner or later to satisfy Stadia and other commitments.

I believe Larian would need to hire over 100 more people in order to get things back on track. There are a lot of issues that we are just not aware of and most of it comes from the fact they just don't have the manpower.

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Do you really think Larian is under-staffed with 300+ full-time employees, utilizing different time zones to in-effect work round the clock?

I would rather point at questionable design decisions as a more pressing issue. Ie. Larian saw fit to try to implement Druid wild shape beasts climbing ladders as a quality of life feature. This is a pretty resource intensive implementation that requires multiple new animations to be made just for this singular purpose. And they still haven't managed to come up with something that isn't harmful to immersion, and likely never will because huge bulls climbing ladders is just so silly it lacks any sort of internal logic even in a magical world full of wonder. Larian could have opted for a simple return to humanoid form while climbing and turning back when finished without taxing wild shape count. Realism intact, quality of life implemented, resources saved for other issues. In particular issues that seem to concern the community. Why this design decision was made is hard to phantom beyond Larian simply being too enamored with their own brand of silliness to see that their style of fun sometimes is harmful to the game.

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What do you know about game development? How can you tell that they're understaffed? Because, no offence, you sound like some who has no idea what he's talking about.
And there's no such thing like '2021 release'. There are no deadlines.

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Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

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2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.


ok thats awesome..... i learned something. Ignoring rules or failing to implement them correctly is now called "trying to reach new levels".
I will have that written in our companys social boards. Thats awesome..... also dont forget to tell the next Police officer "i am trying to reach new Levels" after you ignored some rules.

But now in all honesty..... Larian makes a extremly good game on a graphical viewpoint. Same goes for Sound effects and Voiceovers. Its plains awesome and yes THAT takes ALOT of effort and Money and Time! Anyone who says otherwise has surely no idea how much work is behind those things. And yes if you compare Presentation or Sounds there is truly no comparison to Owlcats game. Not even closely.

For gameplay and options you got in the game its the contrary however. BG3 doesnt even get close in terms of features. I cant see a single gameplay feature that isnt done by Olwcat but TONS of addional things implemented. (and yes they are ALSO in Alpha/Beta state). Ok damn it..... you are right there is NO Barrelmancy in Owlcats game. So ypu are partialy right then Barrelmancy makes the difference here.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.

I would agree the games can't be compared in terms of budget and scope but I'm generally curious what the new level is that you consider Larian are trying to reach?

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Originally Posted by Nyloth
2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.

I would agree the games can't be compared in terms of budget and scope but I'm generally curious what the new level is that you consider Larian are trying to reach?

I think by level he means the "height". I for my point cant remeber any CRPG where you can Jump that high or wide. Only super mario or Sonic beats that but these are no CRPG.

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Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Nyloth
2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.


ok thats awesome..... i learned something. Ignoring rules or failing to implement them correctly is now called "trying to reach new levels".
I will have that written in our companys social boards. Thats awesome..... also dont forget to tell the next Police officer "i am trying to reach new Levels" after you ignored some rules.

But now in all honesty..... Larian makes a extremly good game on a graphical viewpoint. Same goes for Sound effects and Voiceovers. Its plains awesome and yes THAT takes ALOT of effort and Money and Time! Anyone who says otherwise has surely no idea how much work is behind those things. And yes if you compare Presentation or Sounds there is truly no comparison to Owlcats game. Not even closely.

For gameplay and options you got in the game its the contrary however. BG3 doesnt even get close in terms of features. I cant see a single gameplay feature that isnt done by Olwcat but TONS of addional things implemented. (and yes they are ALSO in Alpha/Beta state). Ok damn it..... you are right there is NO Barrelmancy in Owlcats game. So ypu are partialy right then Barrelmancy makes the difference here.

If you read some interview, you would know that they initially said they would "mix" and" change " the rules. They never hid it.

You should also consider fact that each player values game for different things. For some, mechanics are important, but for others, the plot, characters, variability, graphics and visual part are important.
For example, no matter how cool Solasta is, I will never play it, because it looks like a mobile game, it repels me visually.
Everyone has their own preferences in games. Your own tastes. For some, everything you talk about may come second. I don't really care about the fights, I'm interested in the stories.

The Owlcats situation is much better for me. But I still see same Pathfinder. Nothing new for me.

But if you look at DOS2 and BG3, you can actually see noticeable improvements, not only in the visualization, which is really amazing and which I appreciate, but also in the mechanics. So yes, for me, Larian is trying to reach a new level, but owlcat is doing the same thing. I'll probably play both games, but I already love BG3, and Pathfinder just seems like a good game. Normal one. Not special.


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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Originally Posted by Nyloth
2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.

I would agree the games can't be compared in terms of budget and scope but I'm generally curious what the new level is that you consider Larian are trying to reach?

The same thing that Bioware tried to do when they created Dragon Age Origins. Is not it so? Didn't they try to do something completely new for them? To be honest, I didn't really understand your question. Like, how do I know? I just see the difference between their previous project and the present one. The changes are obvious.

Last edited by Nyloth; 19/02/21 04:53 PM.

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@ Nyloth Ok thats somethingi can respect. If someone favors visuals over gameplay then its only fair to say BG3 is awesome. In fact its the most beautiful rpg since a long time. And yes it has evolved alot oder DOS2! (both visualy an Sounds) Wich is odd why they didnt just make a DOS3 then. But gameplay wise (judging by what we know for SURE so far) its no comparison realy. The focus of Owlcat was to implement more Gamplayfeatures and only slightly improve visuals (wich was what was requested by Fans and was shown by strechgoals in Kickstarter).

And yes pathfinder is a sequel in a series. And people want MORE of what the predecessor was. THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF A SEQUEL.
And here lies the Problem with BG3.... its NOT a sequel. Only by Name. But its DEFINITLY the most beautiful Rpg, i give you that!

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
The same thing that Bioware tried to do when they created Dragon Age Origins. Is not it so? Didn't they try to do something completely new for them? To be honest, I didn't really understand your question. Like, how do I know? I just see the difference between their previous project and the present one. The changes are obvious.
Dumbing down what they did with Baldur's Gate 2 while ramping up the production value. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Nyloth
2021? they never said release 100% in 2021, you live in your fantasies

Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Yes its obvious they are „understaffed“ with 300+ people. Since no one of that 300+ has even the time to read forums or talk to the fans I guess they need a few hundred more people. Or maybe pay lot of cash and get someone from owlcat. Since they have a ton more features in game and only a fraction of Larians employees and still communicate open and frequently. Maybe it’s not the numbers but the quality of employees that matter.

or the difference between the games? BG3 is a much more complex project than what owlcat is working on. owlcat doesn't do anything new. owlcat play by the traditional rules, while Larian tries to reach a new level. they need more money and staff for animations, cinematics, character voices, and many other things, so please. don't even compare.


ok thats awesome..... i learned something. Ignoring rules or failing to implement them correctly is now called "trying to reach new levels".
I will have that written in our companys social boards. Thats awesome..... also dont forget to tell the next Police officer "i am trying to reach new Levels" after you ignored some rules.

But now in all honesty..... Larian makes a extremly good game on a graphical viewpoint. Same goes for Sound effects and Voiceovers. Its plains awesome and yes THAT takes ALOT of effort and Money and Time! Anyone who says otherwise has surely no idea how much work is behind those things. And yes if you compare Presentation or Sounds there is truly no comparison to Owlcats game. Not even closely.

For gameplay and options you got in the game its the contrary however. BG3 doesnt even get close in terms of features. I cant see a single gameplay feature that isnt done by Olwcat but TONS of addional things implemented. (and yes they are ALSO in Alpha/Beta state). Ok damn it..... you are right there is NO Barrelmancy in Owlcats game. So ypu are partialy right then Barrelmancy makes the difference here.

If you read some interview, you would know that they initially said they would "mix" and" change " the rules. They never hid it.

You should also consider fact that each player values game for different things. For some, mechanics are important, but for others, the plot, characters, variability, graphics and visual part are important.
For example, no matter how cool Solasta is, I will never play it, because it looks like a mobile game, it repels me visually.
Everyone has their own preferences in games. Your own tastes. For some, everything you talk about may come second. I don't really care about the fights, I'm interested in the stories.

The Owlcats situation is much better for me. But I still see same Pathfinder. Nothing new for me.

But if you look at DOS2 and BG3, you can actually see noticeable improvements, not only in the visualization, which is really amazing and which I appreciate, but also in the mechanics. So yes, for me, Larian is trying to reach a new level, but owlcat is doing the same thing. I'll probably play both games, but I already love BG3, and Pathfinder just seems like a good game. Normal one. Not special.
On certain things: I agree. I find BG3's combat more or less passable, and I don't really care about it. I play games like this for the story, and BG3 EA has delivered for me, so that's why I like it so much.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
The same thing that Bioware tried to do when they created Dragon Age Origins. Is not it so? Didn't they try to do something completely new for them? To be honest, I didn't really understand your question. Like, how do I know? I just see the difference between their previous project and the present one. The changes are obvious.

Apologies if the question was a little vague, it wasn't intended that way. Firstly, I think drawing parallels between Larian's previous game DOS and the current one is sort of irrelevant because this is supposed to be BG3 with all the inherent differences that *should* imply by nature of the legacy it is supposed to be building on and by nature of the rules and lore of DnD. BG3 should not have been built on the skeleton of DOS apart from maybe the graphics engine. I haven't played DOS so can't comment on any improvement in mechanics in relation to BG3 but for my part the mechanics in BG3 are generally a mess in several instances.

Secondly, as far as I can see in terms of 'reaching a new level' you seem to suggest mostly cosmetic things? Improved cinematics, more voice acting, better graphics,...if those are the focus then all we are truly left with is plenty of style but an obvious lack of substance. I said it elsewhere in forums but this game feels like Larian have taken a classic car and turned it into a brash muscle car.

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Hey, I'm not even against production value.
I love it, when it's the icing on the cake.

I just don't want a game that is focused exclusively on nailing THAT aspect at expenses of anything else.

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Do you really think Larian is under-staffed with 300+ full-time employees, utilizing different time zones to in-effect work round the clock?

I would rather point at questionable design decisions as a more pressing issue. Ie. Larian saw fit to try to implement Druid wild shape beasts climbing ladders as a quality of life feature. This is a pretty resource intensive implementation that requires multiple new animations to be made just for this singular purpose. And they still haven't managed to come up with something that isn't harmful to immersion, and likely never will because huge bulls climbing ladders is just so silly it lacks any sort of internal logic even in a magical world full of wonder. Larian could have opted for a simple return to humanoid form while climbing and turning back when finished without taxing wild shape count. Realism intact, quality of life implemented, resources saved for other issues. In particular issues that seem to concern the community. Why this design decision was made is hard to phantom beyond Larian simply being too enamored with their own brand of silliness to see that their style of fun sometimes is harmful to the game.

Yes, I do think that. Why else are all the patches late and the "soon" turns into nearly a month-long delay? Because they are always behind. Even with the teams in different countries, it still isn't enough. HENCE they are adding another team and hiring MORE people.

It's clear they've been running thin from the launch of EA. That's why nothing is released at the first initial date.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Hey, I'm not even against production value.
I love it, when it's the icing on the cake.

I just don't want a game that is focused exclusively on nailing THAT aspect at expenses of anything else.

That was the point I was trying to make. Everyone loves big budget, more so when it looks the part and acts the part.

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Larian wants to go AAA with Baldur's Gate 3, they had an office flood causing setbacks, they've added employees to help with cut-scenes prior games didn't have. They were open that some issues caused them to re-allocate resources to resolve and now they have open positions.

Larian grew a lot with the popularity of Divinity: OS1,2 It's normal that they would want to staff more employees.

They had the choice of delay releasing the game, or hire more employees. Larian chose to hire, this could be a good sign.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Larian wants to go AAA with Baldur's Gate 3, they had an office flood causing setbacks, they've added employees to help with cut-scenes prior games didn't have. They were open that some issues caused them to re-allocate resources to resolve and now they have open positions.

Larian grew a lot with the popularity of Divinity: OS1,2 It's normal that they would want to staff more employees.

They had the choice of delay releasing the game, or hire more employees. Larian chose to hire, this could be a good sign.

Fair points. It could also be asked if they underestimated the scale of the job? It's a genuine question by the way, I don't know the facts so I'm asking in earnest.

I mean, cut scenes can be great and all but there is an overproliferation of unnecessary ones. We don't need a cut scene for every single minor interaction. I'd much rather they addressed some of the other issues.

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I hope the new hires are all invested in issues not related to cut scenes too smile

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