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Pandemonica #757997 20/02/21 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
So instead of coming up with a well reasoned argument to counter any grievances, you’re just going to make a personal jab at someone?

And this was right after someone else making a thread yesterday specifically singling out detractors for being ‘too aggressive’. You know, nobody has actually said anything to refute any points in my huge feedback thread yet either.

With all due respect as a former moderator myself (of a MMO no less!), this and the other one really should have been nuked from orbit long ago. There is no inherent value in leaving this open.

Though if you really want a serious reply, I am still on but for entirely different reasons. The development process of games legitimately interest me, and I want to see what changes, if any for better or for worse, happen. And if not, let’s see if I’m 3 for 3 in correctly predicting how badly the mid/endgame balance will become.

If there are people (those silent MILLION) who think the game is so great, I'd love to see the arguments for it.

Wow, you guys are petty. So I guess it is ok to start a thread about trying to start a review bomb right Scribe? How about another 2 page post to stroke your own ego Saito Hikari? I mean seriously. All you guys do is try to show how superior you are in your "knowledge" of 5e and game development why don't you team up and go and make a game lol? Anyways, I am done with this thread and people who do nothing in their posts but insult the OP, while trying to say he is so insulting for posting a thread of a similar title of a thread crying about how much he is out of the game and still posts actively on a game he hates.

Strike a nerve? Point where I said to review bomb. I'll wait.

Just like I will wait for the threads from the million silent players Larian is designing for. Where can I find the feedback from them?

Topper #758004 21/02/21 12:10 AM
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Satisfied/happy people, tend to enjoy what they're satisfied with rather than bring out their computers to express their opinions online about it. It's very human. Which is why you pretty much dominantly find negative-loaded topics online, because if you were having a blast, you'd probably be busy having a blast. Naturally it's not as black and white as that, as I'd like to think motivations play a heavy part too, you can love something and be critical of it, often because you love it and want to love it even more.

With that said, you navigate online communities as a developer, looking for the productive ideas and comments, and try to not let the negativity get to you. Most often you understand this phenomenon and that isn't really as difficult of a task as it might sound like. But in order to be heard, my 50 cents would be to convey your thoughts without fixating on someone else or to combat their opinion (hey, it's just opinions in the end of the day), or being ranty about it. If you can do that, even if it's highly critical and "against" the product, you can be sure it has the best chance possible to be read in detail by the eyes that matter, and those eyes will thrive in it.

Just be civil, guys. What that other person thinks doesn't matter, it's not a competition of who's more right. If you ever find yourself in that position, you've already lost the battle where it actually matters, and you're on the fast-track into pointless-territory.

Pandemonica #758006 21/02/21 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Wow, you guys are petty. So I guess it is ok to start a thread about trying to start a review bomb right Scribe? How about another 2 page post to stroke your own ego Saito Hikari? I mean seriously. All you guys do is try to show how superior you are in your "knowledge" of 5e and game development why don't you team up and go and make a game lol? Anyways, I am done with this thread and people who do nothing in their posts but insult the OP, while trying to say he is so insulting for posting a thread of a similar title of a thread crying about how much he is out of the game and still posts actively on a game he hates.

Dude, the OP made a parody thread so it's ironic that you are calling others petty. I have no idea why Scribe or Saito created their threads. Scribe was probably upset at the direction development was going and Saito was just offering her observations and making suggestions, which I didn't find in any way stroking her own ego. I don't think anyone is acting superior. Everyone is trying to pool their knowledge of 5e and trying to persuade Larian to make BG3 more faithful to 5e since that's what the game is supposedly based on.

But I agree that it's probably best if you step away from this thread and this forum even if the threads are making you upset. No one should be this upset reading the forums.

Topper #758012 21/02/21 12:31 AM
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The people, who think they can make demands on Larian, because "OMG I PAID 60$$$", do 100% deserve do be parodied.

Darun #758014 21/02/21 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Darun
The people, who think they can make demands on Larian, because "OMG I PAID 60$$$", do 100% deserve do be parodied.

Who deserves it more, those who want a better game, or those who declare this is the best game ever, as defined by a million silent players?

Topper #758018 21/02/21 12:41 AM
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Op sick duck😂

Tuco #758019 21/02/21 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Topper
Then go play something else FFS. What a bunch of entitled crybabies laugh
I'm not sure where we are supposed to draw a direct logical correlation between what we are "going to play" (or why we should, for all that matters) and this thread being petty and childish as hell.

Also, I'm sure that being a complete sycophant is exactly what will help this game reaching new heights.
No more petty and childish than the thread directly under it with the title "I'm out'. Did you post comments in that thread too? Point is if people can post negative threads stating they're out or urging people to review bomb the game with negative posts then positive posts should be and are just as welcome. Just because you and a group of others have a problem with the game doesn't mean that everybody does and that they're wrong for liking the game.

One other thing too. I don't believe it's name calling when the truth is being told. Some of you are acting like spoiled brats and crybabies because the game for some reason or other doesn't meet your standards. Nobody is saying you have to like the game but don't come down on the people who do. The OP is right too. If you don't like the game and the direction that it's going then move on and find something else. Some of you act as though Larian has an obligation to change the game to meet your criteria of what you want the game to be. That's not how it works.

Topper #758022 21/02/21 12:50 AM
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Nice straw man.

Grinch #758023 21/02/21 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Grinch
No more petty and childish than the thread directly under it with the title "I'm out'. Did you post comments in that thread too? Point is if people can post negative threads stating they're out or urging people to review bomb the game with negative posts then positive posts should be and are just as welcome. Just because you and a group of others have a problem with the game doesn't mean that everybody does and that they're wrong for liking the game.

One other thing too. I don't believe it's name calling when the truth is being told. Some of you are acting like spoiled brats and crybabies because the game for some reason or other doesn't meet your standards. Nobody is saying you have to like the game but don't come down on the people who do. The OP is right too. If you don't like the game and the direction that it's going then move on and find something else. Some of you act as though Larian has an obligation to change the game to meet your criteria of what you want the game to be. That's not how it works.

Okay, that first sentence I think is fair. I also did think the OP was going a bit overboard. I don't know if the OP wanted review bombing but the implication was there.

That being said, I disagree with name calling. Because now you are not arguing the issue. You are personally attacking your opponent. What do they always say? Once you resort to name calling, you've lost the argument. Please do not try to rationalize personally attacking someone.

The Composer #758025 21/02/21 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by The Composer
Satisfied/happy people, tend to enjoy what they're satisfied with rather than bring out their computers to express their opinions online about it. It's very human. Which is why you pretty much dominantly find negative-loaded topics online, because if you were having a blast, you'd probably be busy having a blast. Naturally it's not as black and white as that, as I'd like to think motivations play a heavy part too, you can love something and be critical of it, often because you love it and want to love it even more.

With that said, you navigate online communities as a developer, looking for the productive ideas and comments, and try to not let the negativity get to you. Most often you understand this phenomenon and that isn't really as difficult of a task as it might sound like. But in order to be heard, my 50 cents would be to convey your thoughts without fixating on someone else or to combat their opinion (hey, it's just opinions in the end of the day), or being ranty about it. If you can do that, even if it's highly critical and "against" the product, you can be sure it has the best chance possible to be read in detail by the eyes that matter, and those eyes will thrive in it.

Just be civil, guys. What that other person thinks doesn't matter, it's not a competition of who's more right. If you ever find yourself in that position, you've already lost the battle where it actually matters, and you're on the fast-track into pointless-territory.


Yeah, this is very true

I think my best experiences on a forum are when it has a gameplay aspect to it too. Not like the basic social media upvote/downvote type stuff, but amusing polls or guides or subsections with gamesaves or screens, or the' show us your character' type threads that is curated with an eye towards making it fun. Maybe the discord is more fun. Forums perhaps could use some love also with categories that lean in gameful directions? There's a field in the profile to enter a class and alignment, maybe something with that, or perhaps carving it up a bit more in the sections with negative plane protection in mind, or with a specific spot for sour grape gripes to cordone it off. I don't know though. Forums are always a bit like riding the dragon this way. I'd like to post more random thoughts on scimitars vs sabres, or whatever is going with Mods at nexus, or linking up to wikis like https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapons but right now don't really know where to go. And the way things are set up, it's kinda like who knows where the next delayed fireball is going to burst hehe. Anyhow, nice to hear the view. Hope your weekend goes well hehe

Topper #758026 21/02/21 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Topper
Ah you know,just a bit of positive thinking. Larian are doing a decent job of bringing us a game based on a huge IP. Nothing wrong with supporting them. There is only an argument where someone whats to find one. Discussion is another thing entirely.
That is true. Nothing wrong with your title or what you posted. The problem is the negativity from other people. It's okay to start a thread claiming they're out because they don't like the game. But nobody is supposed to start a positive thread supporting the game. Why? Because a certain small group of people says so. To me it's clear what 'I'm in' says. It tells me that you like the game and liked what you saw from playing. The thread 'I'm out' tells me something too. It tells me that somebody didn't like the game for whatever reason. Why should one discussion be okay and the other not? It's because a group on these forums think they speak for everybody and everybody has to agree with their opinion of the game. They don't like the game so nobody else is supposed to like it or post positive things about it. That's the impression I get as a relative newcomer to these forums. They're right and everybody else is wrong.

Topper #758027 21/02/21 12:59 AM
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I made a parody thread a few months back and it was shut down immediately and my thread was merged as a comment into the thread I was parodying, but this has gone on for three pages. Sure seems like people with positive comments about the game get way more passes than people who are rightfully critical of it. I guess that's to be expected though. Having a forum full of outrage affects a company's bottom line and we certainly can't have that.


I don't want to fall to bits 'cos of excess existential thought.

Tzelanit #758030 21/02/21 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I made a parody thread a few months back and it was shut down immediately and my thread was merged as a comment into the thread I was parodying, but this has gone on for three pages. Sure seems like people with positive comments about the game get way more passes than people who are rightfully critical of it. I guess that's to be expected though. Having a forum full of outrage affects a company's bottom line and we certainly can't have that.
I don't really see it as a parody thread. The OP likes the game and the title of his thread says so. Why should his thread be disallowed when it's clearly positive while a negative thread titled "I'm out' is allowed to remain. I'm in clearly lets everybody know where the OP stands in regards to the game. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. He should be just as entitle to post a positive thread as the people are who are posting negative threads. One is no worse than the other.

spectralhunter #758032 21/02/21 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Grinch
No more petty and childish than the thread directly under it with the title "I'm out'. Did you post comments in that thread too? Point is if people can post negative threads stating they're out or urging people to review bomb the game with negative posts then positive posts should be and are just as welcome. Just because you and a group of others have a problem with the game doesn't mean that everybody does and that they're wrong for liking the game.

One other thing too. I don't believe it's name calling when the truth is being told. Some of you are acting like spoiled brats and crybabies because the game for some reason or other doesn't meet your standards. Nobody is saying you have to like the game but don't come down on the people who do. The OP is right too. If you don't like the game and the direction that it's going then move on and find something else. Some of you act as though Larian has an obligation to change the game to meet your criteria of what you want the game to be. That's not how it works.

Okay, that first sentence I think is fair. I also did think the OP was going a bit overboard. I don't know if the OP wanted review bombing but the implication was there.

That being said, I disagree with name calling. Because now you are not arguing the issue. You are personally attacking your opponent. What do they always say? Once you resort to name calling, you've lost the argument. Please do not try to rationalize personally attacking someone.
Just an FYI. I wasn't referring to the OP in regards to review bombing. I was referring to Scribe's thread where he was urging people to write Steam reviews. It's no secret that Scribe isn't happy with the direction of the game. He pretty much implied that he wanted to start a negative review bombing campaign on Steam. That's what I was referring to. As for name calling sometimes you call to call them the way you see them. If somebody is acting like a spoiled brat or crybaby there's no harm in saying so.

Grinch #758034 21/02/21 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Grinch
No more petty and childish than the thread directly under it with the title "I'm out'. Did you post comments in that thread too?
Yes, I did.
Thanks for asking.

And by the way, no, it's in NO WAY the same thing.
I'm not even in particular agreement with the specific dramatic angle Isaac decided to take on that thread, but there is a genuine disparity in pertinence between a thread that can be summarized with "I'm not happy with the current development"
and one that basically boils down to "Ohohoh, FUCK THAT LOSER! I'll totally show him!".

Quote
Some of you are acting like spoiled brats and crybabies
Yeah, as I said I'm sure being complete sycophants trying to outcompete each other in an ever-escalating bootlicking contest will serve the game a lot better.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. You too can join the good fight HERE
Grinch #758035 21/02/21 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Grinch
Just an FYI. I wasn't referring to the OP in regards to review bombing. I was referring to Scribe's thread where he was urging people to write Steam reviews. It's no secret that Scribe isn't happy with the direction of the game. He pretty much implied that he wanted to start a negative review bombing campaign on Steam. That's what I was referring to. As for name calling sometimes you call to call them the way you see them. If somebody is acting like a spoiled brat or crybaby there's no harm in saying so.

I didn’t mean the OP in this thread. I also meant Scribe. So yeah we are in agreement there.

There is harm. You devalue your position by doing so.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 21/02/21 01:22 AM.
Topper #758037 21/02/21 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Wow, you guys are petty. So I guess it is ok to start a thread about trying to start a review bomb right Scribe? How about another 2 page post to stroke your own ego Saito Hikari? I mean seriously. All you guys do is try to show how superior you are in your "knowledge" of 5e and game development why don't you team up and go and make a game lol? Anyways, I am done with this thread and people who do nothing in their posts but insult the OP, while trying to say he is so insulting for posting a thread of a similar title of a thread crying about how much he is out of the game and still posts actively on a game he hates.

I only go after people who deserve it, and OP crossed that line with the creation of this thread. The thread this is parodying was created out of frustration with the development direction of this game, though the implied practice of review bombing is stupid as hell, and the end result of that thread anyway is maybe half a dozen people 'review bombing' in favor or against the game. Let's face it, this forum is actually rather quiet by most standards.

You are defending a thread that only exists to take a personal jab at the former, the end goal basically being nothing but that, without realizing the total hypocrisy about doing something that's several degrees more petty than the thing you perceived others to be doing to begin with. My standards are at least consistent on this front - I went after someone else yesterday insulting a game dev to the effect of 'please tell me what games you worked on so I can avoid them', for merely suggesting changes that I too highly disagreed with.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=757621#Post757621

Context is everything.

That said, your post did tell me something useful. You've basically admitted that you did read my thread and could not come up with any kind of argument against it, and you instead went and decided that it was a good idea to make it so that the point I was making about the OP would also apply to you too, when nothing about the post was even directed at you to begin with. I don't mean to insult you, but you should pick your fights better.

An ego though? That's a new one. The wording might come off as such, but it should also tell most people another thing on a practical level. It only means I simply have way too much time on my hands, more than any normal person should have any right to have, and at least my efforts are ultimately trying to steer the forum towards a more constructive way of thinking. Which is far more than anyone can say of this thread. Why am I not a game dev? There are many reasons for that, none worth entertaining on a practical level, like how asking 'how come Sven couldn't beat the hag on the live stream of his own game' doesn't actually result in any useful answers that should be entertained either.

I only argue as much as I do because I believe there should be a clear line separating DOS and BG, and muddying the waters this much is a bad thing, especially when I feel that it's for all the wrong reasons. Kind of like how I would argue that the infamous Blackpits fight in DOS:2 would actually be one of the most well designed fights in existence, if it weren't for the fact that countering cursed fire/Necrofire is way harder than it should have been, and the allied NPC insists on doing cartwheels through them for whatever reason. I've been a Larian/D:OS fan longer than I have been a DnD fan (by about a year), but at least I took the time to understand how the DnD system works because I believe Larian CAN do better, and I have better sense than to become *that* person trying to gleefully mansplain to fans of the source material about how their dinosaur of a system can't be properly adapted to video game format because [entirely personal preference reasons here]. The thing that burns me the most is that it is almost a great game on a combat level, and that's the only reason I continue to argue instead of abandoning the project.

I am sure I will still enjoy BG3 for many other reasons beyond my grievances with the combat design, and it's why I am firmly against getting off the train. To the devs' credit, I love Shadowheart's writing because she's one of the few female evil characters who has actual standards and doesn't revel in how evil she can be. That is exceedingly rare to find in fiction.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 21/02/21 04:37 AM.
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Saito Hikari: There's nothing wrong with expressing negative viewpoints and opinions. I think the problem comes when the impression is given that a certain group's viewpoints and opinions are right and everybody else is wrong. They give the impression that this game is a total disaster and that they alone are the only people who can save it if only Larian would listen to them. Not everybody sees the game as a disaster or a failure. Some people such as the OP actually like it and thinks it's good.

I personally like the game and like the direction development is going. I also understand that this game is in a pre Alpha or Alpha stage right now and has a long way to go before final release. It's too early to call the game a disaster or pass judgement in my opinion. Many things are subject to change between now and the final release. This group I talk about for some reason has already decided the game is going to be a failure and in my opinion it's too soon to say that. They also think that just because they provide feedback and give suggestions that Larian has an obligation to respond and do exactly what they say. That's not how EA works.

My last point is that everybody is entitled to their own opinion. No one opinion is more right or wrong than any other. That's what I've been trying to point out in the posts I've written since joining this forums earlier this week. Calling out people who tried to start review bombing campaigns and defending people such as the OP when they express a like for the game and get attacked for it. From what I've seen reading these forums and in the short time I've been posting it's always the same usual suspects with all the negativity. Most of them showed up here in this thread which was a positive thread and a counterpoint to negative threads such as "I'm out". Contrary to what's been said people who like a game don't play that game 24/7. Some of them actually do end up posting on forums and expressing a positive or favorable attitude towards the game that they are playing.

Grinch #758076 21/02/21 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Grinch
I personally like the game and like the direction development is going. I also understand that this game is in a pre Alpha or Alpha stage right now and has a long way to go before final release. It's too early to call the game a disaster or pass judgement in my opinion. Many things are subject to change between now and the final release. This group I talk about for some reason has already decided the game is going to be a failure and in my opinion it's too soon to say that. They also think that just because they provide feedback and give suggestions that Larian has an obligation to respond and do exactly what they say. That's not how EA works.

My last point is that everybody is entitled to their own opinion. No one opinion is more right or wrong than any other. That's what I've been trying to point out in the posts I've written since joining this forums earlier this week. Calling out people who tried to start review bombing campaigns and defending people such as the OP when they express a like for the game and get attacked for it. From what I've seen reading these forums and in the short time I've been posting it's always the same usual suspects with all the negativity. Most of them showed up here in this thread which was a positive thread and a counterpoint to negative threads such as "I'm out". Contrary to what's been said people who like a game don't play that game 24/7. Some of them actually do end up posting on forums and expressing a positive or favorable attitude towards the game that they are playing.

Here's where I have an issue with some of your comments. Your opinions are fine. If you like the game as is, that's all good. But there are many here who are not satisfied. And they aren't just complaining. They are explaining where there are serious imbalances in the game and even offering possible solutions. If you don't think the game needs such solutions, then please offer a counter point. But you don't. So far, you only speak in generalities and complain about the complainers.

If the complainers are not justified in their complaints, then highlight the specific reasons. Then we can have a discussion and toss out ideas and brainstorm. That's what EA is for.

Whether or not Larian decides to listen is up to them. I agree. But why even have an EA if your ultimate goal was to ignore suggestions and ideas?

So please Grinch. Since you like the game so much, why do you like it? What parts of the system works for you? I'm sure Larian would also like to hear what players like. Is it perfect? How can it be improved? What about some of the suggestions that are not good? So far all you are offering is, don't be mean to Larian. Am I wrong? If so, please call me out on it and we can discuss.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 21/02/21 05:32 AM.
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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Darun
The people, who think they can make demands on Larian, because "OMG I PAID 60$$$", do 100% deserve do be parodied.

Who deserves it more, those who want a better game, or those who declare this is the best game ever, as defined by a million silent players?

There is a big difference between "wanting a better game" and "wanting a better game FOR ME", generally you have been falling in the latter category. Then when people counter your argument, or say they do not feel the same, you come back with your snarky "silent majority" or insinuate the other posters are fanboys. Your outlook on the game is in the minority of the forum, which the forum is a minority of the games player base. So you figure it out.

Players and posters are not "fanboys" because they simply are not throwing a fit about not getting every little thing they want in regards to 5e translation in a game. There is a thing called artistic interpretation, which is the game developers right to take advantage of. Just like it is our right to not play the game if we do not like it. You want to go all negative, and try and rip it down, hey that is your right. Go for it. But don't then stand on a soapbox and state "Its for the players to have a better game", that is your perspective ONLY, which I am sure some share, but they do not represent all the players, nor all the forum posters, who ALL have the same objective, to support bug reports, give some feedback that MAY help. When EVERYTHING you post is negative, you are not trying to help man, you are just angry and trying to tear it down.

Personally I have no issue with the OP posting a thread to counter the negative thread of "I'm out" with "I'm in" so that people that actually enjoy aspects of the game can comment, but immediately certain people became threatened and came in to start a forest fire and burn the thread. That is so weak.

Last edited by Pandemonica; 21/02/21 05:48 AM.
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