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It's well worth a read. Very 'Scandinavian' in tone, if you know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by Dexai
Let the Right One In

My experience with vampire books us pretty much limited to that but it's pretty monstrous
Never read the book, but I liked the movie. smile


The book is great. As far as movies goes, both the scandinavian and the US version are pretty good. The US version manages to be a bit more dark actually (which surprised me, since normally it is the otehr way around).

To get back to topic: I'm trying the Astarion romance atm and somehow managed to get a high approval with him for the first time ever - and I'm playing a really good character, so I must have done some dialogues right, because I get a lot of dissapproval from simply helping people.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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Originally Posted by fylimar
To get back to topic: I'm trying the Astarion romance atm and somehow managed to get a high approval with him for the first time ever - and I'm playing a really good character, so I must have done some dialogues right, because I get a lot of dissapproval from simply helping people.

Astarion is stupid easy to bed.

I played with four custom characters which means he never was in my party. I made all “good” choices and pretty much ignored any approval ratings. After defeating Minthara, everyone else rejected my character. Not Asterion.

With the right combination of dialogue choices, I got the romance scene.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 21/02/21 06:04 PM.
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I will put the book on my list of things to read! smile

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Originally Posted by BeeBee
I like Astarion for thirsty reasons, even though I sometimes feel like I'm invading LGQTB spaces when I romance him. That might be a me problem though.

However, I also like him because the man is a walking representation of the selfish will to live that any decent player must have. Not only is he enjoying his tadpoled predicament as much as a BG fan is, after decades of draught, but physically he is the embodiment of the best and the worst that the tadpole has to offer: awesome powers coupled with bloodthirsty violence, childish glee (like a baby tadpole) at psionically controlling others (like a grown-up illithid, but also just like the player who is in control of all the characters). The scars on his back, Cazador's "poem", are in concentric circles that look both like the marks that a giant tadpole would leave, with their little concentric mouths, and like a target (because we all have targets on our backs). And he's sad at the idea of losing the tadpole, because that would mean he will lose the ability to stand in the sun, just like getting rid of the parasite would mark the beginning of the end of the main quest, in-game.

He's a terribly handsome representation of the player's ID and that's why he's so popular.

I don't think he has anything with LGQTB... He's just a proud asshole and a villain, that's all. Also xenophobe and so charming. Astarion not only wants to survive, he also revels in violence and power, he likes it.

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fylimar
To get back to topic: I'm trying the Astarion romance atm and somehow managed to get a high approval with him for the first time ever - and I'm playing a really good character, so I must have done some dialogues right, because I get a lot of dissapproval from simply helping people.

Astarion is stupid easy to bed.

I played with four custom characters which means he never was in my party. I made all “good” choices and pretty much ignored any approval ratings. After defeating Minthara, everyone else rejected my character. Not Asterion.

With the right combination of dialogue choices, I got the romance scene.

I still hope it's a bug. Right now, you can get his romance scene literally at lowest approval.


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Originally Posted by Icelyn
I will put the book on my list of things to read! smile


It's great, but really, really dark.

spectralhunter: I thought, there would be more scenes with Astarion, if the approval is higher, like with Gales Weave scene for example. That is, why I tried to get the approval a bit up.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by BeeBee
I like Astarion for thirsty reasons, even though I sometimes feel like I'm invading LGQTB spaces when I romance him. That might be a me problem though.

However, I also like him because the man is a walking representation of the selfish will to live that any decent player must have. Not only is he enjoying his tadpoled predicament as much as a BG fan is, after decades of draught, but physically he is the embodiment of the best and the worst that the tadpole has to offer: awesome powers coupled with bloodthirsty violence, childish glee (like a baby tadpole) at psionically controlling others (like a grown-up illithid, but also just like the player who is in control of all the characters). The scars on his back, Cazador's "poem", are in concentric circles that look both like the marks that a giant tadpole would leave, with their little concentric mouths, and like a target (because we all have targets on our backs). And he's sad at the idea of losing the tadpole, because that would mean he will lose the ability to stand in the sun, just like getting rid of the parasite would mark the beginning of the end of the main quest, in-game.

He's a terribly handsome representation of the player's ID and that's why he's so popular.

I don't think he has anything with LGQTB... He's just a proud asshole and a villain, that's all. Also xenophobe and so charming. Astarion not only wants to survive, he also revels in violence and power, he likes it.

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by fylimar
To get back to topic: I'm trying the Astarion romance atm and somehow managed to get a high approval with him for the first time ever - and I'm playing a really good character, so I must have done some dialogues right, because I get a lot of dissapproval from simply helping people.

Astarion is stupid easy to bed.

I played with four custom characters which means he never was in my party. I made all “good” choices and pretty much ignored any approval ratings. After defeating Minthara, everyone else rejected my character. Not Asterion.

With the right combination of dialogue choices, I got the romance scene.

I still hope it's a bug. Right now, you can get his romance scene literally at lowest approval.

I just assumed he was a horn dog. smile

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I just assumed he was a horn dog. smile


And that would be correct laugh

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The romances are most interesting to me when it feels like whatever character I've rolled really plays off the energy of the character.

Shadowheart: I like her being with a character than can really play with her snark with teasing, and downplay how heavy she makes situations out to be. I believe you get a bit of disapproval for this, but there's also the addition of really charming her off her feet and probably flexing all aspects of having high CHA (including deception, which she is impressed by). Narratively, I think making her comfortable emotionally will make her romance feel so sweet. I don't buy her callous attitude and think a romancing PC shouldn't either. The Shar worship is definitely a hurdle for her to have any sort of connection with the PC. Otherwise I can see her being either tearfully or coldly willing to kiss the PC and kill them in the same encounter.

Astarion: Really surprised his romance is the most romantic. Probably because his gimmick doesn't really get in the way of it like others. I like pairing him with a character who's just as chaotic as him, entertained by the fiendish things he suggests, and tries to make the most out of any opportunity. Have yet to play this character though since I tend to play characters who are overly serious and would never romance Astarion in their life. I love having him around though because it humors me to think of how annoyed my characters are by him.

Gale: I just don't see this guy being anything but neutral good. I don't distrust him in the slightest and with the characters I'm interested in, his arrogance is barely even noticeable. I've got a character in mind who would definitely be good alignment, very sympathetic and doing as much as they can to help those around them. I can very much see the whole Mystra angle really causing this PC to pull away and take a more confrontative approach to him that is both self-serving (because they are still falling for him) but also sympathetic (seeing the path of trying to impress fickle gods as a path of self-destruction). Probably would spec this character as healer/support for added affect.

Wyll: His path seems like the one that the PC can influence the most, and we already see that with the scene with Spike. I can see a lawful good character being the healthiest route: doing good and being the bigger man/woman no matter what and staying strong through the consequences. But I found playing a neutral character with an evil bent more rewarding in actual play. It offered a rare opportunity for that character to open up about being tempted by power but also to put pressure on Wyll to reconcile his feelings with his actions. I also feel a good PC romancing Wyll will encounter some sort of trouble pulling him away from Mizora, while an evil character can try to beat her at her own game (which is messed up). Evilness aside, I also liked the vibe of working through issues of morality in tandem with Wyll, being pushed closer and closer to depravity until both realize that its a repeating cycle they have to break.

Lae'zel: I really play up the angle of an alliance born of convenience that evolves through time. A duo of slightly competing, abrasive leaders, where you are reconnaissance and she takes point. Doesn't matter that you expect her to kill you at the end of all this and she expects you to die and have to replace you at the next turn - she knows a potential cure and you know how to maneuver this place. This PC is resolute and in particular a survivor with a good bit of WIS with proficiency in Insight, Perception, and/or Survival. This works wonders in showing determination to not turn into mindflayers, but also to play up the angle of trying to read her intentions properly and assist when her foresight proves poor (eg the Tadpole Fever, Gith Patrol scene). Over time, the alliance of convenience becomes a sort of trust of competence as you both try to work out the tadpole situation and where to go next.
This last bit is my own speculation and possible over-analysis, but I feel like the trust element is actually the big thing about the "romance". Especially since a character like this tends to turn on you at some point, gaining that approval might be among the only things to prevent it. While she makes no promises, I do think you can take her at her word, and that the moments when she looks to be withholding information are moments where she just will never speak into the aether that she's uncertain. There are a lot of things she just will never say because of her pride, and so the PC just kind of has to infer. This allows her to be strong, but also "human". Again, I leave myself open to be surprised or disappointed wherever her storyline and "romance" ends up, but I am thoroughly intrigued by her and she quite obviously my favorite. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Astarion's actions are actually revealed if you play as him. I also like how everyone always praises Gale, I assure you, he is a wonderful manipulator, I am sure that Gale is a dark horse, and perhaps even worse than Astarion.

Yeah especially once you get to the point to hear his backstory.

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Originally Posted by BeeBee
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I just assumed he was a horn dog. smile


And that would be correct laugh

The fact is that with low approval, if you "flirt" he refuses you. It not fails only if Astarion is initiator, this is why I think it's bug. It looks very strange.


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He's just dying to get a chance of that sweet sweet life wine


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Originally Posted by Rack
I'd agree with pretty much all of this. I think a party of misfits can work without a straight man though that archetype definitely makes it work better. Maybe it's forthcoming.

One thing that personally annoys me is the evil characters are so far into chaotic stupid territory I can't see them being played by more than a tiny minority of players. If you only have 9 characters why have 3+ that are almost entirely impossible to work with?

Also having an option to romance Shadowheart when she comes across as a special needs child is pretty creepy.

How in the...How did you come to the conclusion that Shadowheart comes across as a special needs child?

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Rack
I'd agree with pretty much all of this. I think a party of misfits can work without a straight man though that archetype definitely makes it work better. Maybe it's forthcoming.

One thing that personally annoys me is the evil characters are so far into chaotic stupid territory I can't see them being played by more than a tiny minority of players. If you only have 9 characters why have 3+ that are almost entirely impossible to work with?

Also having an option to romance Shadowheart when she comes across as a special needs child is pretty creepy.

How in the...How did you come to the conclusion that Shadowheart comes across as a special needs child?

Because that's how she acts at all times? She's a 13 year old goth kid who's really a xx year old half elf and she's just discovered lying and lies like a four year old. She hasn't developed theory of mind yet so she can't think a step ahead to how the other party would respond to the lie or realise how obvious it is. She'll sit there with Shar all over her face saying she didn't take the Shar.

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You know I've come around on using flags for the romances. As it is now you get to the celebration event and everyone wants to bang you, it's really weird. Especially with Lae'Zal who basically says "You'd be up in this only if you agreed with me more". It makes no sense at all and just comes off as protagsexual. Now if we do something like trigger Lae'Zal's romance after the scene with the other Gith it makes a little more sense.

This is also good because we can presumably have friend routes with the characters too. I really don't know if that's in there or not, everyone seems to think of you romantically if you show them a little interest. I'll probably have better formed points when I replay it after the next patch.

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Talking about companions' characterization, and having been playing Dragon Age games these last couple of months, i gotta say the banters in BG3 are way weaker than i first thought.

Granted, i haven't played the latter in a while, but if i remember correctly most of them were one/two lines each of awkward flirting. Meanwhile in Origins a talking rock (Shale) could have a string of meaningful discussions with someone who might as well have been a rock (Sten). Dragon Age 2 has the best banters in the series so i'm not even gonna go there, but even freaking Sera and Solas, in Inquisition, have more meaningful conversations than, say, Gale and Shadowheart.

It'll be a very big shame if banters end up not being used to show the different sides of the companion. I mean, i just said i wouldn't go there but screw it, someone like Varric, in Dragon Age 2, is so awesome precisely because his banters help to show us the 'mother hen' he actually is beneath all the bluster.

Again, if i remember correctly, what they're doing with SH and Lae'zel is kind of cool and a step in the right directions, what with them slowly acclimating to eachother by the time we reach the Underdark, but it's kind of a waste that, for the majority of them, all they're giving us are little doses of more of the same.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Talking about companions' characterization, and having been playing Dragon Age games these last couple of months, i gotta say the banters in BG3 are way weaker than i first thought.

Granted, i haven't played the latter in a while, but if i remember correctly most of them were one/two lines each of awkward flirting. Meanwhile in Origins a talking rock (Shale) could have a string of meaningful discussions with someone who might as well have been a rock (Sten). Dragon Age 2 has the best banters in the series so i'm not even gonna go there, but even freaking Sera and Solas, in Inquisition, have more meaningful conversations than, say, Gale and Shadowheart.

It'll be a very big shame if banters end up not being used to show the different sides of the companion. I mean, i just said i wouldn't go there but screw it, someone like Varric, in Dragon Age 2, is so awesome precisely because his banters help to show us the 'mother hen' he actually is beneath all the bluster.

Again, if i remember correctly, what they're doing with SH and Lae'zel is kind of cool and a step in the right directions, what with them slowly acclimating to eachother by the time we reach the Underdark, but it's kind of a waste that, for the majority of them, all they're giving us are little doses of more of the same.

Take Wyll and Astarion, their interaction is amazing. Or Lae and Shadow. It's like taking Anders and Fenris, unforgettable.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Take Wyll and Astarion, their interaction is amazing. Or Lae and Shadow. It's like taking Anders and Fenris, unforgettable.

Astarion has such a crush on Wyll; it's really cute.

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Originally Posted by Worm
It makes no sense at all and just comes off as protagsexual.

Haha wink


Originally Posted by Rack
One thing that personally annoys me is the evil characters are so far into chaotic stupid territory

Many games show evil characters as acting basically 'stupid' because it's simply easier and more convenient. It's hard to write a good evil character. You have to come up with good reasons why he acts exploitative or egoistical. You have to take viewpoints which you maybe don't like yourself and don't agree with. You have to challenge your own world view. Many people don't like that.

Take for example Alpha Centauri: Chairman Yang is a brutal dictator - and his faction is one of the best at war and higher difficulties. Or Sister Miriam: She is completely fundamentalist and absolutely devastating with espionage. While the nice and kind UN and Gaians struggle to maintain an army.

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