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Originally Posted by vometia
... the matter of race is something we have previously had problems with because it's something that can quickly degenerate so I'm afraid it's off limits.
Thank you for that clarification; it wasn't apparent from your previous post that you meant all mention of it across the board, even implementations of it already present in-game. However, I can understand how you would not want something to spill over into real world issues.

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It is difficult not to discuss race, though, because the fact is that race does impact the choices and dialogue of the game. So I'm not sure how we're going to address certain game elements related to race if we can't even talk about it at all.

My comments were in regards to race versus romance options and mechanics. How can we discuss race with regards to romance? I know it's a touchy subject, but it is a big part of the game. 😬

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I think the situation here might be indicative of what we can expect from the game.

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I don't know about that. I just think Vometia has a lot of crazy posts she has to sift through with a lot of cranky people. I do not envy the job she has. We're all crazy nut fans who are sometimes a bit too passionate and we start attacking one another. She's just trying to keep the peace.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make most is that the romance felt all wrong with all characters. We need more relationship than current state. There needs to be dynamics. Some scenes should be the whole party discussing issues and making plans. Gale's Raphael Courting dialogue could be a group dialogue, for example.

But then we need more intimate dialogues when it comes to who you are trying to romance. There are whole areas of the camp that arent being used. Have the main and their chosen romance slip away and have private dialogues "Down by the River." 😁 Shadowhearts confession, or Lae'zel confessing her concerns about the tadpole not doing what it should be doing, Wylls Spike story or Astarion talking about his past...all these should have a more intimate setting as opposed to standing in the middle of camp talking about it in front of everyone.

And THESE moments should be what really drives the romance, not whether I succeeded or failed in saving Arabella. If I disregarded Arabella and she died, yeah, this might make it harder to woo Gale or Wyll, but even these things should ne able to be discussed during these alone times.

Example, you don't save Arabella on purpose. That night, you ask Gale to chat alone. During the chat, Gale asks why you didn't try to save her. You then get options to explain your actions. Choose well and it actually impresses him. Choose poorly and you hurt your chances for romance with him further. Things like that would be more meaningful and make more sense.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
I think the situation here might be indicative of what we can expect from the game.
Im affraid you are right. :-/

@GM4Him
I dunno ... it might end like that, since its easyest way to satisfy ... well, most at least if not everyone, wich is entirely impossible.
But i would like to see our companions to have some preferences, just bcs its natural ... it makes the characters more whole / deep / beliveable ... however you want to call it.
I dare to say that nobody in the world is soo loose in his taste to have sex with litteraly anyone. :-/
Except our companions ... and i see that as a misstake (and seeing last few paiges on this topic ... im not alone wink ).

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 22/04/21 12:56 PM.

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Randomly, seeing as this is on its 6th page, would this qualify as a mega thread topic?

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Last few days i see mostly this suggestion on this forum, between new messages ... i have wild idea ...
How about keep on topic, and let moderators to decide wich they concider mega-threads? O_o


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I think for a male straight player character there are very little romance options currently in the game, which is somewhat disappointing. I only consider female humans and elfs & drow, including half elves to be attractive and therefore viable options for romance anyway. Not interested in Tieflings, do you really want a woman with horns sticking out of her head and a tail out of her ass? I don't. Lae is ugly, so are the Gith in general in my opinion. Then there is the drow woman Minthara, but only if you choose the evil path. Since I didn't and prefered to slay the goblins and save the druids, that only leaves Shadowheart for me, but she isn't my type, because I'm a sucker for blondes with some curves at the right spots. I really hope, Larian will add more options than that.
There is of course also the dream girl the player can define during character creation, but she seems to be just a cruel Illithid mindfuck trick, which is really bad. I hoped that we'll be able to meet this defined character during character creation as real npc later in the game, not just as a mind flayer illusion. Anyway I hope for a lot more romance options in the future than what the early access version is offering.

Last edited by Ragnarök; 30/04/21 01:48 PM.
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For a long time I looked at the arts on the game's intro. The question arose: Is Gale really undead? His hand is like the hand of a lich... And only from him there is an aura of death.


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Originally Posted by Shyshyn4ik
For a long time I looked at the arts on the game's intro. The question arose: Is Gale really undead? His hand is like the hand of a lich... And only from him there is an aura of death.

He may not be undead, but he's pretty close to it, I think. His condition may be the reason for this artistic interpretation.

I will say that none of the current group is really romance worthy to me. Shadowheart is kinda a jerk most of the time. Lae'zel IS one, and she was the one I thought would be most interesting before playing the game. I still think there's more to her than people think. I think Lae'zel is far more than she seems and is putting on a tough girl act just because she's proud. Wait and see. I bet she's actually someone with a whole lot more depth. And Idk. I never thought the gith were that ugly. It's like Klingons. They're near humans with some cosmetic differences.

But anyway, Gale is nice and all, but he's...TOO nice. I think he's actually a bit more of an Emperor Palpatine behind that cocky grin. Did you see that one image with the skeletons and the lightning? Yeah. I took that as a hint that he's a bit crazy and I imagined him screaming, "UNLIMITED POWER!!!" in that image. His romance story kinda gave me the same vibe.

Astarion...yeah. I actually like his personality as he is a fun character to chat with. As a romance, though, Im not into the whole Twilight thing.

Wyl is cocky and too into his own fame and glory, and he's pretty much a devil-lover who Im pretty sure is bound to her forever. Nice guy and all in general, but...

And Minthera is nuts. She's straight up crazy. I imagine a romance with her is like a romance with Harley Quinn. Never know when the Joker might come in with a sledge hammer and smash your skull in, if she doesn't do it first.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Astarion...yeah. I actually like his personality as he is a fun character to chat with. As a romance, though, Im not into the whole Twilight thing.

It seems to me that Astarion was created according to the principle: "What do fangirl 16+ love?"
They "love the Twilight Saga", so let's take a vampire! Of the other RPGs, the favorite hero is Fenris. A runaway slave who hates his former master! Great, let's take it! Something is missing... And, for sure, fangirl love Dorian from the Dragon Age Inquisition, his manner of communication, but he is only for guys. Let's fix it! And so we got the most ideal lover for the female Mary Sue.

Strange feeling of the character...

Last edited by Shyshyn4ik; 09/05/21 11:55 AM.

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Originally Posted by Shyshyn4ik
It seems to me that Astarion was created according to the principle: "What do fangirl 16+ love?"

Hahahaha... I had to laugh at this, because even though I'm in my late 30s and married, Astarion makes me feel like I'm a 16-year-old goth again. :P

Never read Twilight though, nor do I care to. Back then, "Interview with the Vampire" was amazing, and Vampire: the Masquerade RPG. Anyway.

Last edited by Alexandrite; 09/05/21 12:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Never read Twilight though, nor do I care to. Back then, "Interview with the Vampire" was amazing, and Vampire: the Masquerade RPG. Anyway.

Nuu... to Lestat, Astarion is still far away)))))))))))))))))))


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Originally Posted by Shyshyn4ik
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Astarion...yeah. I actually like his personality as he is a fun character to chat with. As a romance, though, Im not into the whole Twilight thing.

It seems to me that Astarion was created according to the principle: "What do fangirl 16+ love?"
They "love the Twilight Saga", so let's take a vampire! Of the other RPGs, the favorite hero is Fenris. A runaway slave who hates his former master! Great, let's take it! Something is missing... And, for sure, fangirl love Dorian from the Dragon Age Inquisition, his manner of communication, but he is only for guys. Let's fix it! And so we got the most ideal lover for the female Mary Sue.

Strange feeling of the character...

Not even close... You forget the most important thing, Astarion is evil. None of these characters are evil. He has something in common with Lestat, they are both drama queens and so selfish. But Astarion is still better, at least for now. Lestat regretted his actions, worried, burned in the sun and sobbed bloody tears. Astarion? He enjoys it, that's why I love him.

And that's what makes him different from other typical characters of this type.

By the way, to get Astarion's approval, you need to play as evil. I don't think Mary Sue is usually defined as "evil characters".

It is also worth considering that there is nothing original in the world, we can always find something "similar", but it will never be the same.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Not even close... You forget the most important thing, Astarion is evil. None of these characters are evil. He has something in common with Lestat, they are both drama queens and so selfish. But Astarion is still better, at least for now. Lestat regretted his actions, worried, burned in the sun and sobbed bloody tears. Astarion? He enjoys it, that's why I love him.

And that's what makes him different from other typical characters of this type.

By the way, to get Astarion's approval, you need to play as evil. I don't think Mary Sue is usually defined as "evil characters".

It is also worth considering that there is nothing original in the world, we can always find something "similar", but it will never be the same.

Вообще не похож. С Лестатом из фильма, а речь шла именно о фильме "Интервью с Вампиром" 1994 г., общего, кроме того что оба вампиры, ничего нет. Я смею предположить, что вы говорите на русском, и если да, то я оставлю текст в оригинале, так будут понятнее мои мысли.
Для того чтобы получить одобрение Астариона, вам не надо играть за зло. Совсем.
Я первый раз играла, за мужчину следопыта полуэльфа. Я спасла тифлингов, пообещала Нетти випить яд, убила Каргу, спасла девочку от друидки, убила гоблинов, помогла друиду Хальсинду, пообещала спасти герцега, делала одни добрые дела.
Астариону я дала выпить кровь и отдала книгу. И как же я удивилась, когда на гулянке тифлингов, с Астарионом у меня мало того что было максимальное одобрение, так ещё он сразу позвал под ёлки. Восклицательный знак горел только над ним. Вариант - пошли? Пойдем! Сработал сразу, не надо было даже вопросов задавать. Я думаю, хорошо. Предлагают - бери)) Хотя, я рассчитывала на Гейла, но из-за того, что с ним у меня одобрение набралось максимально быстро диалоги оказались заблокированы.

Doesn't look like it at all. With Lestat from the film, and it was precisely about the film "Interview with the Vampire" in 1994, there is nothing in common, except that both vampires are. I dare to assume that you speak Russian, and if so, I will leave the text in the original, so my thoughts will be clearer.
You don't have to play as evil to get Astarion's approval. Absolutely.
This is my first time playing as a half-elf male tracker. I saved the tieflings, promised Nettie to drink poison, killed Karga, saved the girl from the druid, killed the goblins, helped the druid Halsin, promised to save the duke, did some good deeds.
I gave Astarion blood to drink and gave the book. And how surprised I was when, at the tiefling party, with Astarion, not only did I have the maximum approval, he also immediately called under the trees. The exclamation mark burned just above him. Option - let's go? Let's go to! It worked right away, there was no need to even ask questions. I think good. They offer - take it)) Although, I was counting on Gale, but due to the fact that I gained approval with him as quickly as possible, the dialogues were blocked.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Not even close... You forget the most important thing, Astarion is evil. None of these characters are evil. He has something in common with Lestat, they are both drama queens and so selfish. But Astarion is still better, at least for now. Lestat regretted his actions, worried, burned in the sun and sobbed bloody tears. Astarion? He enjoys it, that's why I love him.

Now that I've brought up "Interview with the Vampire" (oops!) I should probably add that we can't compare Lestat and Astarion - YET. Lestat's story is complete from the books, and Astarion's is not. We have only had a small taste of it. smile
(Also Lestat's author had a big religious epiphany in the middle of writing her books, which probably skewed the character a lot. I don't remember, I stopped reading the series when then religious stuff got too annoying for me.)

Right now, I get the feeling Astarion is most interested in survival, and right now our team is his best opportunity to stay alive and enjoy life/freedom as much as he can, in his own way. If you do play Evil, he will quickly become your most Evil character in the team. But if you play Good, he will still approve as long he sees some of those chaotic, survivalist, fun-loving tendencies in you and how you speak with him.

BUT - his story is far from complete! What is really written on his back? Who will he become after we deal with Cazador? Will he be able to resist his old master? Will he become a full vampire and turn evil in this personal quest - or if we kill Cazador, and will Astarion be able to find closure in this after 200 years of abuse, and figure out where his life goes from there? Will he still be with us until the end of the game, and who will he become?
I really can't wait for more of his story!!!

Also, he does have some humanising moments, they're few and far between (and one is not actually in the game yet) but they do exist...

One is when you speak to the mirror guarding the room with the Necromancy of Thay tome. When the mirror asks "what would you like to see?" one of Astarion's dialogue options is "I'd like to see my real home, the one I haven't seen in hundreds of years". That is really sweet. The way he basks in the morning sun after your night with him is also great to see. Also, there is an unfinished, unreleased scene that you can watch on youtube, where he looks at a mirror and laments what he has lost. He doesn't even remember what colour eyes he had in life. When you offer to "be his mirror" it quickly turns into flirting and teasing about "shallow praise" for his appearance, but it's moments like this that make me think there is some humanity left in him, well-hidden after years of abuse. I do hope we will see more of this side of him.

Last edited by Alexandrite; 09/05/21 09:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by Shyshyn4ik
Doesn't look like it at all. With Lestat from the film, and it was precisely about the film "Interview with the Vampire" in 1994, there is nothing in common, except that both vampires are. I dare to assume that you speak Russian, and if so, I will leave the text in the original, so my thoughts will be clearer.
You don't have to play as evil to get Astarion's approval. Absolutely.
This is my first time playing as a half-elf male tracker. I saved the tieflings, promised Nettie to drink poison, killed Karga, saved the girl from the druid, killed the goblins, helped the druid Halsin, promised to save the duke, did some good deeds.
I gave Astarion blood to drink and gave the book. And how surprised I was when, at the tiefling party, with Astarion, not only did I have the maximum approval, he also immediately called under the trees. The exclamation mark burned just above him. Option - let's go? Let's go to! It worked right away, there was no need to even ask questions. I think good. They offer - take it)) Although, I was counting on Gale, but due to the fact that I gained approval with him as quickly as possible, the dialogues were blocked.

I'm talking about books, just so you know, Lestat's story doesn't start with Interview with Vampire, because it's not first book. So Lestat is by nature a selfish whiner who does terrible things and then blames himself for it and grieves. Astarion is selfish, but he doesn't seem to whine.

I have 200 hours in game, Astarion approves like 80% evil choices and another 20% neutral, and he always disapproves or doesn't react on good actions. He is a chaotically evil character, don't expect him to encourage your kindness, sooner or later it will cause conflict.

Did you let Gur live? Because Astarion will definitely want to kill him, and it's an evil act. He hates when you help someone. He hates when you're honest with others. He's only happy to save girl if you kill Kagha, because he's actually happy to kill Kagha, and he probably doesn't care about girl. "Killing is too much, I would cut off her hand," he says about this little girl.

Try to travel only with Astarion and get his opinion on each situation.

And if you talking about the fact that his "romance" scene can be obtained without approval? This is a different point. I'm sure this will be changed, or doesn't matter for his real romance, cuz this scene is more like "just sex". Lae and Astarion are characters who may betray you in the future. Lae for her queen, Astarion for his own gain. So these nights don't mean anything to them, it's "just for fun".


Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Not even close... You forget the most important thing, Astarion is evil. None of these characters are evil. He has something in common with Lestat, they are both drama queens and so selfish. But Astarion is still better, at least for now. Lestat regretted his actions, worried, burned in the sun and sobbed bloody tears. Astarion? He enjoys it, that's why I love him.

Now that I've brought up "Interview with the Vampire" (oops!) I should probably add that we can't compare Lestat and Astarion - YET. Lestat's story is complete from the books, and Astarion's is not. We have only had a small taste of it. smile
(Also Lestat's author had a big religious epiphany in the middle of writing her books, which probably skewed the character a lot. I don't remember, I stopped reading the series when then religious stuff got too annoying for me.)

Right now, I get the feeling Astarion is most interested in survival, and right now our team is his best opportunity to stay alive and enjoy life/freedom as much as he can, in his own way. If you do play Evil, he will quickly become your most Evil character in the team. But if you play Good, he will still approve as long he sees some of those chaotic, survivalist, fun-loving tendencies in you and how you speak with him.

BUT - his story is far from complete! What is really written on his back? Who will he become after we deal with Cazador? Will he be able to resist his old master? Will he become a full vampire and turn evil in this personal quest - or if we kill Cazador, and will Astarion be able to find closure in this after 200 years of abuse, and figure out where his life goes from there? Will he still be with us until the end of the game, and who will he become?
I really can't wait for more of his story!!!

Also, he does have some humanising moments, they're few and far between (and one is not actually in the game yet) but they do exist...

One is when you speak to the mirror guarding the room with the Necromancy of Thay tome. When the mirror asks "what would you like to see?" one of Astarion's dialogue options is "I'd like to see my real home, the one I haven't seen in hundreds of years". That is really sweet. The way he basks in the morning sun after your night with him is also great to see. Also, there is an unfinished, unreleased scene that you can watch on youtube, where he looks at a mirror and laments what he has lost. He doesn't even remember what colour eyes he had in life. When you offer to "be his mirror" it quickly turns into flirting and teasing about "shallow praise" for his appearance, but it's moments like this that make me think there is some humanity left in him, well-hidden after years of abuse. I do hope we will see more of this side of him.

Of course, we can only judge by the first act, so I said "for now", I do not know what will happen at the end. I do not know what makes you think that Astarion approves of good deeds. He doesn't approve saving Tieflings, he approves their betrayal, if you saving them he's just doesn't react. He tells you directly at the party "I'm sick of it".

About mirror scenes it's "selfishness" to me. Astarion in mirror scene approves when you praise him. As for "home" scene, he definitely wants to reclaim his lost memories, as well as his freedom. He only cares about himself. It's not something that gives you a hint that this character has any kind intentions.

Astarion is already evil, and he was evil before turning into a vampire, he used his power for evil when he was a judge. Of course, he can have redemption arch... But it will be strange for me. When you don't play according to character's principles, they leave you, like Wyll, when you don't save Tieflings, or like Shadow, who refuses romance for the same reason.

So why Astarion special? If you play against him, sooner or later he has to leave, because he is "sick of it". well I want it...

I remember when Swen played demo version of the game for first time and he chose Astarion as original character, and he said "I do what Astarion would do as a character", and he betrayed Tieflings.

Last edited by Nyloth; 10/05/21 05:42 AM.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
I have 200 hours in game, Astarion approves like 80% evil choices and another 20% neutral, and he always disapproves or doesn't react on good actions. He is a chaotically evil character, don't expect him to encourage your kindness, sooner or later it will cause conflict.

Oh but that is one of the reasons I can't wait to see where the story goes. smile

I might be a glutton for punishment/heartbreak, because I'm currently re-playing Dragon Age Inquisition (I never originally finished the game when it came out!) and romancing Solas. I KNOW my heart is going to get broken. I want to know HOW. It makes for a good story. smile


Originally Posted by Nyloth
and he probably doesn't care about girl. "Killing is too much, I would cut off her hand," he says about this little girl.

I did not get this line. :O
Still, cruelty was a fact of life in the Middle Ages, probably not out of place in this fantasy setting. Not out of character for him either. Our actual real life human history has seen far worse. Is it disturbing, YES. Does it fit the character, given his background - probably also yes.


Originally Posted by Nyloth
And if you talking about the fact that his "romance" scene can be obtained without approval? This is a different point. I'm sure this will be changed, or doesn't matter for his real romance, cuz this scene is more like "just sex". Lae and Astarion are characters who may betray you in the future. Lae for her queen, Astarion for his own gain. So these nights don't mean anything to them, it's "just for fun".

Eh - vampires have always been sexual beings in books and movies, and there's nothing wrong with sex for fun, it makes sense for his character.
Wishful thinking on my end - I am hoping this is only the beginning of the romance. After all, we have a lot more game story ahead of us. One night stand can't be the end of it - can it? Especially because his responses to the player character are the only ones that change afterwards. "Hello, lover."

Of course, if he betrays us later, it will only make the heartbreak worse. (Refer to "glutton for punishment" and romancing Solas in DA:I above. I KNOW what I'm in for, story-wise. I still want to experience it anyway. laugh If the ending isn't happily-ever-after, that's fine, it still means it's a good story! You don't expect happily-ever-after with vampires anyway!)


Originally Posted by Nyloth
Of course, we can only judge by the first act, so I said "for now", I do not know what will happen at the end. I do not know what makes you think that Astarion approves of good deeds. He doesn't approve saving Tieflings, he approves their betrayal, if you saving them he's just doesn't react.

He doesn't approve, but he also doesn't mind what we do (so far) as long as he continues to survive and find pleasure in life.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
About mirror scenes it's "selfishness" to me. Astarion in mirror scene approves when you praise him.

See, I read that scene differently... I feel as though in that scene, the player character has walked in on a moment where he has let his guard down and shown an emotion. "Another thing I've lost." He quickly regains composure and goes on to being his snarky, flirty self. I read it as a defense mechanism, a well-rehearsed wall going up. Anyway, we don't yet know where this scene fits in, or whether it will be in the game, but I hope it will.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
Astarion is already evil, and he was evil before turning into a vampire, he used his power for evil when he was a judge. Of course, he can have redemption arch... But it will be strange for me.

This is exactly why I DO hope there will be a redemption story arc for him. smile Does who he was in life, still define him? Will he be able to move past the abuse he has suffered - or will the spawn become more like the master? Will our player character's choices have an influence?

Anyway, I find it interesting that we both love Astarion for different reasons! The end result is the same - he has a legion of adoring fans, and I'm sure he would be pleased. haha

Last edited by Alexandrite; 10/05/21 08:43 AM.
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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
...he has a legion of adoring fans

By Azura! oops


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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
He doesn't approve, but he also doesn't mind what we do (so far) as long as he continues to survive and find pleasure in life.
His pleasure in life comes often at the expense of others, though. If you play the good path and won't let Astarion drink from Tav (which seems to be a large approval boost) & don't allow him to drink from other intelligent beings, you can end up with low approval. I never got him to leave the party, though maybe it is because the writers are setting him up for betrayal? On the other hand letting Astarion drink blood, while making him happy, feels like a "trap" choice for a good aligned character. It allows him to engage in his monstrous nature for the first time, something he couldn't before, ironically due to Cazador's orders. So it is a step away from redemption.

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