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Some races are too easily accepted in civilised areas.

For example gith and drow. The first reaction in groove should grabbing weapons followed up with persuade checks / proving yourself, not being hugged, welcomed in, and even approached by an elf high druidess to drive fugitives out.

I play a drow, and despite being eilistraeen cleric every single elf, human, etc npc keeps tapping her shoulder warmly in friendish manner. Awknard, totally breaking any immersion. And the worst even, if i tug along Laezel! Gith and drow walk into groove and everyone just gives you happy smiles and applauds you for poking about.

There should be hostilities in dialogues on first encounters, persuade checks all over the place to get anywhere. To make difference between seldarine and lloth/evil pantheon worshipping drow? Give to the seldarine drow bonuses on persuade checks afterall game makes them visually different (least for an elf).

Also the Laezel openning for her quest makes totally no sense.

So that guy has friend stabbed by a Gith and tells noone in the groove? and if he does, everyone just smiles as "gith" strolls about. Laezel goes out of her way to threathen the guy in the middle of the groove rofl and noone lifts a brow. You make the guy to kneel and everyone pretends to look elsewhere? The guy is not even standing anywhere aside of the groove, he is right in the middle of place serving as market place.

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Mmm yeah I do agree there.

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WotC has been trying to remove racial tensions in the setting (personally for the worse) so what you are seeing is normal.

That being said, Larian isn’t making much attempt to make encounters grounded or real as your examples show. You’ll just have to suspend your disbelief more and more.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
WotC has been trying to remove racial tensions in the setting (personally for the worse) so what you are seeing is normal.

That being said, Larian isn’t making much attempt to make encounters grounded or real as your examples show. You’ll just have to suspend your disbelief more and more.


Whats the purpose of playing a drow or gith then when the entire game should fully neglect all it brings along? We could then just play a human hue brown or elf hued black.

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Originally Posted by Jirik
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
WotC has been trying to remove racial tensions in the setting (personally for the worse) so what you are seeing is normal.

That being said, Larian isn’t making much attempt to make encounters grounded or real as your examples show. You’ll just have to suspend your disbelief more and more.


Whats the purpose of playing a drow or gith then when the entire game should fully neglect all it brings along? We could then just play a human hue brown or elf hued black.

Not arguing with you, in fact I’m on your side. Just stating the trend.

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WotC is actually phasing out the word "race" as well. I guess they don't want anyone get reminded of any painful reality in their fantasy games.

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Originally Posted by Ankou
WotC is actually phasing out the word "race" as well. I guess they don't want anyone get reminded of any painful reality in their fantasy games.

Tbh, I don't really uh feel their replacement word, "Lineages". Lineages makes it sound like everyone is of a royal line or something, while Race evokes ideas of different kinds of people to me.
I don't really mind them trying to replace it to avoid controversy or whatever cause functionally it is the same, but I'd prefer a different word to Lineage.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Originally Posted by Ankou
WotC is actually phasing out the word "race" as well. I guess they don't want anyone get reminded of any painful reality in their fantasy games.

Tbh, I don't really uh feel their replacement word, "Lineages". Lineages makes it sound like everyone is of a royal line or something, while Race evokes ideas of different kinds of people to me.
I don't really mind them trying to replace it to avoid controversy or whatever cause functionally it is the same, but I'd prefer a different word to Lineage.
Oh, are they going all in on that? I assumed they were just using the term "Lineage" for Dhampir, Hag Heir, and Reborn because you can be any Race and still be one of those. A gnome Dhampir's race is still gnome.

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Originally Posted by Ankou
WotC is actually phasing out the word "race" as well. I guess they don't want anyone get reminded of any painful reality in their fantasy games.
I definitely find myself identifying with the more misunderstood and stigmatized races like the Drow (more so personally because theirs mirrors the individualistic, selfish and conniving Western culture than anything race-related) and Tieflings (being victimized by their stereotypes and sometimes eventually succumbing to the evil nature that others assume of them). I personally don't mind the term "race" because the dynamic is similar to the real world. I'm mixed with Black, White, and Native American blood.


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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Originally Posted by Ankou
WotC is actually phasing out the word "race" as well. I guess they don't want anyone get reminded of any painful reality in their fantasy games.

Tbh, I don't really uh feel their replacement word, "Lineages". Lineages makes it sound like everyone is of a royal line or something, while Race evokes ideas of different kinds of people to me.
I don't really mind them trying to replace it to avoid controversy or whatever cause functionally it is the same, but I'd prefer a different word to Lineage.
Oh, are they going all in on that? I assumed they were just using the term "Lineage" for Dhampir, Hag Heir, and Reborn because you can be any Race and still be one of those. A gnome Dhampir's race is still gnome.

Oh maybe? I thought Lineage was becoming a sort of replacement? If it referred to a specific archetype and was not just human+X/new thing like past races and instead anything + Lineage, that'd be pretty cool. This is all offtopic but might be a cool thing for there to be an eratta if there isn't one already for things like an Elven Half Orc or a Dwarfish Shifter?

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Lineage absolutely will replace 'race' in the next edition, and any release going forward. You can bet on it.

As to the reactions to Drow, Gith, and (imo) Tiefling, thats just lazy writing/coding. Those absolutely should elicit a different response in dialogue.

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This has been a thing in most DnD video games I've ever played; because they want to provide a large sample of races for players to pick, but they also don't want players to be stopped from... you know... actually playing the game.

In NWN2 I think I remember all of two lines dedicated towards being suspicious of your drow or deep gnome, or grey orc, or yuan-ti, and then the rest just played out the same as it always did. The only difference was with the yuan-ti, and the storm of zehir expansion, you could get "discovered" to be yuan-ti by roaming patrols on the overworld map, which would then attack you. But I just treated this as free experience, it didn't really have any effect on the story of the game.

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What do you expect from Hasbro.

I'm expecting 6.0 to introduce Pony Friends.

Everything D&D since TSR works toward turning D&D into a Dora the Explorer episode.

Watch out for the hot lava everyone, and Swiper no Swiping !!

Yeah, my daughter went through that phase.

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Originally Posted by Anfindel
What do you expect from Hasbro.

I'm expecting 6.0 to introduce Pony Friends.

Everything D&D since TSR works toward turning D&D into a Dora the Explorer episode.

Watch out for the hot lava everyone, and Swiper no Swiping !!

Yeah, my daughter went through that phase.

Uh, things are different from past editions, arguably easier Module-wise, but I don't think its that extreme?
Players can die if their DM is creative or is genuinely trying to give a challenge.
Lorewise, most things are intact, or just a progression from past editions. Surface Drow have been a thing for a long time, Drizzt Do'Urden being the most notable example, though they still experience some distrust though not outright violence anymore.
And I might be reading into "Swiper no Swiping" the wrong way, but dnd has always allowed and even rewarded evil actions, you can do messed up stuff and be the villain. Murder, steal, summon demons, cohort with devils, enslave, side with villains, and so on.
And if you just mean that challenges are trivial, that is all up to the DM, as by using the tools at their disposal, they likely could create a challenge that can be won but also can kill players. It is a hard balance to achieve, but it is very possible.

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It is worth noting that when you get to the Grove the game has to side with them against an army of goblins that would've slaughtered the people outside the gates and then reported back, giving away the grove's position and endangering everyone inside.

That is pretty solid grounds for why the people of the Grove don't see you as a threat as a drow or gith. You've already demonstrated that you aren't there as a raider or conqueror. You've saved all their lives.

It would surely be nice if more individual NPCs reacted to my gith, but at the same time there are more NPCs who do that in this game than in most other RPGs I've played so it isn't like it is entirely absent either.

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I agree with the OP... Playing as a Lloth sworn Drow should mean getting an overtly hostile reaction from EVERY civilized race that you encounter. Playing as a Tief should mean almost noone trusts you. Playing as a Halfling should mean everyone thinks you're going to pickpocket them at any moment. Playing as a Gith should mean you're treated with severe suspicion and hostility everywhere you go and that you're openly attacked if you go near anyone that's ever encountered your kind before (as the experience was most certain to have been an unpleasant one). If they ever put Aasimar in this game, I would expect a LOT of resentment from the tiefs.

Furthermore, choosing certain classes should illicit strong reactions. The Cleric (or Paladin, eventually) of an Evil God should not be well received in most places. If you're a Cleric/Paladin of Selune in particular then Shadowheart should, at best, clam up tight and keep her mouth shut (not even hint at, let alone give up the secret of who she worships) and should, at most realistic, slit your throat (or try to) the very first time that you go to a long rest with her in the party. I also don't imagine that a Cleric/Paladin of Mystra would take too kindly to hearing former archmage Gale talk about how he used to clap them magical cheeks.

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Originally Posted by Jirik
Some races are too easily accepted in civilised areas.

For example gith and drow. The first reaction in groove should grabbing weapons followed up with persuade checks / proving yourself, not being hugged, welcomed in, and even approached by an elf high druidess to drive fugitives out.

I play a drow, and despite being eilistraeen cleric every single elf, human, etc npc keeps tapping her shoulder warmly in friendish manner. Awknard, totally breaking any immersion. And the worst even, if i tug along Laezel! Gith and drow walk into groove and everyone just gives you happy smiles and applauds you for poking about.

There should be hostilities in dialogues on first encounters, persuade checks all over the place to get anywhere. To make difference between seldarine and lloth/evil pantheon worshipping drow? Give to the seldarine drow bonuses on persuade checks afterall game makes them visually different (least for an elf).

Also the Laezel openning for her quest makes totally no sense.

So that guy has friend stabbed by a Gith and tells noone in the groove? and if he does, everyone just smiles as "gith" strolls about. Laezel goes out of her way to threathen the guy in the middle of the groove rofl and noone lifts a brow. You make the guy to kneel and everyone pretends to look elsewhere? The guy is not even standing anywhere aside of the groove, he is right in the middle of place serving as market place.


People who played Baldur's Gate 1/2 will be confused by that. They expect Drow being evil, supremacist Elves and are confused when no one fears or hates them.

That's the problem: If you remove any conflict and any differences from a game, you don't have a story anymore. People have no reason to play your game.

One of the coolest D&D sessions I had was when I allowed a player to play a Drow. She had to constantly hide her identity - but when we came to he Underdark she could pass of her fellow party members as her personal slaves and property wink

Political ideology kills every good story.

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Originally Posted by Arne
Originally Posted by Jirik
Some races are too easily accepted in civilised areas.

For example gith and drow. The first reaction in groove should grabbing weapons followed up with persuade checks / proving yourself, not being hugged, welcomed in, and even approached by an elf high druidess to drive fugitives out.

I play a drow, and despite being eilistraeen cleric every single elf, human, etc npc keeps tapping her shoulder warmly in friendish manner. Awknard, totally breaking any immersion. And the worst even, if i tug along Laezel! Gith and drow walk into groove and everyone just gives you happy smiles and applauds you for poking about.

There should be hostilities in dialogues on first encounters, persuade checks all over the place to get anywhere. To make difference between seldarine and lloth/evil pantheon worshipping drow? Give to the seldarine drow bonuses on persuade checks afterall game makes them visually different (least for an elf).

Also the Laezel openning for her quest makes totally no sense.

So that guy has friend stabbed by a Gith and tells noone in the groove? and if he does, everyone just smiles as "gith" strolls about. Laezel goes out of her way to threathen the guy in the middle of the groove rofl and noone lifts a brow. You make the guy to kneel and everyone pretends to look elsewhere? The guy is not even standing anywhere aside of the groove, he is right in the middle of place serving as market place.


People who played Baldur's Gate 1/2 will be confused by that. They expect Drow being evil, supremacist Elves and are confused when no one fears or hates them.

That's the problem: If you remove any conflict and any differences from a game, you don't have a story anymore. People have no reason to play your game.

One of the coolest D&D sessions I had was when I allowed a player to play a Drow. She had to constantly hide her identity - but when we came to he Underdark she could pass of her fellow party members as her personal slaves and property wink

Political ideology kills every good story.

This really makes me want to play BG2 again.

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Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
It is worth noting that when you get to the Grove the game has to side with them against an army of goblins that would've slaughtered the people outside the gates and then reported back, giving away the grove's position and endangering everyone inside.

That is pretty solid grounds for why the people of the Grove don't see you as a threat as a drow or gith. You've already demonstrated that you aren't there as a raider or conqueror. You've saved all their lives.

It would surely be nice if more individual NPCs reacted to my gith, but at the same time there are more NPCs who do that in this game than in most other RPGs I've played so it isn't like it is entirely absent either.

This is how I feel about it specifically for the Grove area...everyone knows you just saved their arses and they're kewl with it/you.

However when my drow toon walked up to Waukeen's Rest apparently right after it was attacked by a group of drow and the guards don't all drop what they are doing to come confront me thinking/wondering if I wasn't part of the same group come back for more that admittedly made no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by OcO
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
It is worth noting that when you get to the Grove the game has to side with them against an army of goblins that would've slaughtered the people outside the gates and then reported back, giving away the grove's position and endangering everyone inside.

That is pretty solid grounds for why the people of the Grove don't see you as a threat as a drow or gith. You've already demonstrated that you aren't there as a raider or conqueror. You've saved all their lives.

It would surely be nice if more individual NPCs reacted to my gith, but at the same time there are more NPCs who do that in this game than in most other RPGs I've played so it isn't like it is entirely absent either.

This is how I feel about it specifically for the Grove area...everyone knows you just saved their arses and they're kewl with it/you.

However when my drow toon walked up to Waukeen's Rest apparently right after it was attacked by a group of drow and the guards don't all drop what they are doing to come confront me thinking/wondering if I wasn't part of the same group come back for more that admittedly made no sense to me.

I think the excuse there is you rushed in and helped the ambassador lady? Though perhaps in that case there should be more than just remarks and closer to a genuine skill check because they would have a very very good reason to not assume you are a surface drow.

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