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Hmm. Not a programmer but an engine does many things other than manage movement. There are many things that I like about the unreal engine. Unreal has the photo realistic graphics and it supports my sli setup but I've seen smaller devs tackle issues like recreating graphics interfaces and transforming a RtwP engine into a turn based engine so big changes do seem possible.

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Well, true. DOS2 actually did not support cinematics like what we know BG3 can do now. Which I now realize undermines my argument here, because it does mean the devs can indeed make significant changes to the engine if they put their minds to it.

Man, this thread was a much better idea in my head while I was bored at work yesterday.

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The use of a developed "game engine" like Unity or Unreal or Divinity is basically an advanced Roblox or Lego set. If you want custom pieces, you have to make them yourself, otherwise you are stuck using the basics. Now, you can make some really amazing shit with basic lego and roblox, so this isn't an issue.

But if you go making a ton of custom lego pieces and amass so many of them that when the new lego set comes out you can't play because none of the pieces fit ... whose fault is that?

Larian built themselves a cool lego fort, and now are faced with having to tear it down and build something new, but are refusing to do so in the name of "Homebrew".

That's why I call Larian lazy.

Putting in an exorbitant amount of effort to force a round peg through a square hole is not "productive" or "helpful" or "difficult".

It's the most insidious form of stubbornness and procrastination.

And, looking at things like the DOS2 armor apology, this kind of stubbornness is a TRAIT of Larian Studios. Bad business.

Last edited by tsundokugames; 25/02/21 07:39 PM.
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OP's next thread "Larian is LAZY!!!" wink

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
OP's next thread "Larian is LAZY!!!" wink

Nah, that isn't Saito, I think he/she meant well. Threads like this are notorious for bringing the negative people that just want to push anything Larian under the bus because they, God forbid, do not listen to EVERY thing that they recommend, and then say "Yes master, hit me more please".

Last edited by Pandemonica; 25/02/21 09:37 PM.
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Well, I AM a programmer, but not a game one. Still, it seems that the most broken things about the combat combat system can be changed/fixed easily - if modders can do it, so should Larian: https://github.com/ZerdBG3/DnD-Rebalancing/blob/main/Features.md (note e.g. "Removes Backstabbing from the game")

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Nah, that isn't Saito, I think he/she meant well.

Not commenting on everything you've said but I think it's been settled. Op said the thread wasn't a good idea -- which is kinda impressive, rare for people change their minds -- and that's that for me. Looking forward to other good threads from Saito Hikari

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
OP's next thread "Larian is LAZY!!!" wink

Nah, that isn't Saito, I think he/she meant well. Threads like this are notorious for bringing the negative people that just want to push anything Larian under the bus because they, God forbid, do not listen to EVERY thing that they recommend, and then say "Yes master, hit me more please".

no, i know smile Just a little poke.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Not commenting on everything you've said but I think it's been settled. Op said the thread wasn't a good idea -- which is kinda impressive, rare for people change their minds -- and that's that for me. Looking forward to other good threads from Saito Hikari

Ehhh... Probably not. I did mention that if Larian made a clear message indicating that many of the more questionable mechanics are here to stay, I would step away from the forum and wait for release in acceptance that this is how their vision is meant to be. Putting in actual video tutorials for high ground advantage and backstab advantage is about as clear as it gets.

Plus I've pretty much run out of things to say, and you all got better shit to do than to listen to me being a broken microphone spewing 20 more pages of walls of text. :P

I do want to say this, though. If by any chance any of the class modders see this, would it be possible to mod in the Greenmage from Solasta? It's a super fun homebrew wizard archetype whose specific niche doesn't really exist in any of the official 5E classes at all. I mean, why not?

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Not commenting on everything you've said but I think it's been settled. Op said the thread wasn't a good idea -- which is kinda impressive, rare for people change their minds -- and that's that for me. Looking forward to other good threads from Saito Hikari

Ehhh... Probably not. I did mention that if Larian made a clear message indicating that many of the more questionable mechanics are here to stay, I would step away from the forum and wait for release in acceptance that this is how their vision is meant to be. Putting in actual video tutorials for high ground advantage and backstab advantage is about as clear as it gets.

Plus I've pretty much run out of things to say, and you all got better shit to do than to listen to me being a broken microphone spewing 20 more pages of walls of text. :P

I do want to say this, though. If by any chance any of the class modders see this, would it be possible to mod in the Greenmage from Solasta? It's a super fun homebrew wizard archetype whose specific niche doesn't really exist in any of the official 5E classes at all. I mean, why not?

Is it documented somewhere? Sad to see you leave, but I dont blame ya.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Is it documented somewhere? Sad to see you leave, but I dont blame ya.

Boot up the game and see for yourself. Assuming your ISP isn't throttling you. Which it probably is, because this is a larger patch due to the backend changes in how the files are packaged, and ISPs are gonna ISPs. Previous patches took me about an hour to download, this one took me 2 and a half, for reference.

That said, I'm not completely leaving the forums. I'll just pop in randomly to talk about whatever new development catches my attention, as I quite like these forums. I'm just not gonna vomit wordy waterfalls as usual. Again, I've pretty much ran out of anything new and constructive to say in the face of knowing that a lot of the design choices are meant to stay.

There's life and other games to keep track of as well (Solasta's probably having an update in a few weeks, and it looks like Pathfinder WotR Beta is also getting a Phase 2 towards the end of April), so there's that too.

EDIT: I just ran across this thread.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=759820

That thread details subtle balance changes to mechanics we considered problematic that were NOT mentioned in the patch notes, of which I suspected something like that would occur. After all, the switch from field effects applying their effects multiple times per turn to once per turn were not documented in the Patch 3 notes either. Interesting thing to consider.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 26/02/21 06:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Not commenting on everything you've said but I think it's been settled. Op said the thread wasn't a good idea -- which is kinda impressive, rare for people change their minds -- and that's that for me. Looking forward to other good threads from Saito Hikari

Ehhh... Probably not. I did mention that if Larian made a clear message indicating that many of the more questionable mechanics are here to stay, I would step away from the forum and wait for release in acceptance that this is how their vision is meant to be. Putting in actual video tutorials for high ground advantage and backstab advantage is about as clear as it gets.

Plus I've pretty much run out of things to say, and you all got better shit to do than to listen to me being a broken microphone spewing 20 more pages of walls of text. :P

I do want to say this, though. If by any chance any of the class modders see this, would it be possible to mod in the Greenmage from Solasta? It's a super fun homebrew wizard archetype whose specific niche doesn't really exist in any of the official 5E classes at all. I mean, why not?

Well if you do go, know that I've enjoyed your in-depth critiques.

I still have a fools hope that Larian will change its mind but you are right, the signs aren't good. If anything Sven seemed annoyed that he couldn't deviate from the rules even further. And this patch doubles down own surfaces -- seems like Larian wants to make electrified ice the cheese surface that wins the day.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Well if you do go, know that I've enjoyed your in-depth critiques.

I still have a fools hope that Larian will change its mind but you are right, the signs aren't good. If anything Sven seemed annoyed that he couldn't deviate from the rules even further. And this patch doubles down own surfaces -- seems like Larian wants to make electrified ice the cheese surface that wins the day.

Wait, electrified ice is a thing in BG3? That never actually existed in D:OS2 (because adding a potential damage/stun effect to a surface that can trip you to begin with is busted even by that game's standards), and I don't think BG3 would actually go much further than that in this department...

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Had the same thought.


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ugh, the pacing of combat is so staccato and slow.

camera snap. camera snap. camera snap. camera snap. camera snap. 2 seconds of player control. camera snap, camera snap, camera snap. 40 seconds of non-player action. camera snap. camera snap.

one of the things I hate MOST about DOS3 combat is how the camera hops around EVERY SINGLE FUCKING action like a Ritalin kid on M&Ms.

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A significant number of complaints people have are about design choices, not implementation in coding. Most people get that there will be unpolished things at this stage. The idea that the game revolves around the high ground, Anakin, has nothing to do with that.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Had the same thought.


Oh.

I thought the ice would actually get electrified, which is what I thought you were describing.

Still, a quick skim through the first part is actually way more excessive than anything I had ever seen from my Hydrosophist/Aeroteurge party setup in D:OS2. Getting stunned in D:OS2 required one of two other conditions first:

1) Being under the effect of the 'Shocked' status, and then getting hit by an attack that inflicted the Wet status or another Shocked status effect, which upgraded the Shocked status into Stunned
2) Being under the effect of the 'Wet' status, and then getting hit by an attack/walking into a field effect that inflicted the Shocked status, which took you straight into being Stunned

If you walked into an electrified water field without any magic armor, you'd either get Shocked, or Stunned if you were already Shocked or Wet. However, this act also causes all electricity in the water to disappear, as it is assumed that the affected character absorbs it all, so it required a bit more effort to stun multiple enemies at once.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 26/02/21 07:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Had the same thought.


Oh man this is so heartbreaking to watch. Swen would probably love it and be kicking himself that he didn’t think of it for his stream.

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No, it's a bit simpler, in BG3 you can electrify the water, freeze it and the electricity flows through the ice. Don't yet know if you can electrify steam clouds like you could in DOS2.

Given that druids now have destroy water I'm seeing the DOS like sequence fall into place -- you freeze, they make it water again, you make it steam, they have no counter, you electrify. Destroy water ends the surface management.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Had the same thought.

And people in this forum still say that this game does not resemble DOS and is "more D&D than BG".

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