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Dexai #760355 27/02/21 04:19 AM
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Cheers. Sorted now.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Now notice the UI when shooting an arrow from low ground
Smallest of Low Ground
Now look at the attack roll in the combat log grin Disadvantage was not applied.
The Combat Log

If you don't have percentage to-hits that are even multiples of 5, you have Advantage or Disadvantage. Those images clearly show that you are at disadvantage from low ground (56% isn't an even multiple of 5) and the combat log is what is messed up (it isn't showing the disadvantage).

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So someone at Reddit posted this interesting comment in regards to my inquiry.

I think it might be the way the preview works.

The preview probably compares the position of your character to the position of your cursor. The actual attack likely uses the position of your character and the anchor point of your target.


This likely isn't the full story, but it might be part of it, judging from how I was getting advantage/normal roll previews based on nothing but moving my cursor around the enemy model. It made me think back to that one specific bug that Larian kept emphasizing in the patch notes. Three times to be exact. That whole thing about the one NPC peeing higher than should be anatomically possible from a visual perspective.

What if a different but similar version of that is at play here? As in, perhaps the previews are accurate, the real issue might be that the game could be reading our positions incorrectly upon launching an attack (as in, calculating our characters to be slightly higher in elevation than we actually are)? It would explain myself being able to get advantage rolls when the preview says I shouldn't, and it would also explain disadvantage previews resulting in a normal attack roll at the same time. A widening of the break points should mean that it would be harder to get a low ground disadvantage penalty AND a high ground advantage bonus at the same time. But I have not observed advantage previews turning into normal rolls throughout any of my tests, only the exact opposite.

Of course, that also brings up the question, why does this possible bug favor only us? To which I would answer that it's not really just us. The calculations probably only adjust the attacker upwards, not the defender, and we don't get that much visual data about how the enemy AI calculates high ground/low ground.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 27/02/21 05:02 AM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
So someone at Reddit posted this interesting comment in regards to my inquiry.

I think it might be the way the preview works.

The preview probably compares the position of your character to the position of your cursor. The actual attack likely uses the position of your character and the anchor point of your target.


This likely isn't the full story, but it might be part of it, judging from how I was getting advantage/normal roll previews based on nothing but moving my cursor around the enemy model. It made me think back to that one specific bug that Larian kept emphasizing in the patch notes. Three times to be exact. That whole thing about the one NPC peeing higher than should be anatomically possible from a visual perspective.

What if a different but similar version of that is at play here? As in, perhaps the previews are accurate, the real issue might be that the game could be reading our positions incorrectly upon launching an attack (as in, calculating our characters to be slightly higher in elevation than we actually are)? It would explain myself being able to get advantage rolls when the preview says I shouldn't, and it would also explain disadvantage previews resulting in a normal attack roll at the same time. A widening of the break points should mean that it would be harder to get a low ground disadvantage penalty AND a high ground advantage bonus at the same time. But I have not observed advantage previews turning into normal rolls throughout any of my tests, only the exact opposite.

Of course, that also brings up the question, why does this possible bug favor only us? To which I would answer that it's not really just us. The calculations probably only adjust the attacker upwards, not the defender, and we don't get that much visual data about how the enemy AI calculates high ground/low ground.
I'd say the UI is definitely bugged. I've got some high ground tests to supplement that. I'm still leaning towards the logic to granting advantage/disadvantage has been changed. It may technically be bugged right now too, but combat has been a lot more fun not having advantage and disadvantage be everywhere xD
I think the logic for the UI was also changed from patch 3. I'm not yet ready to go back to patch 3 to full test it out as combat was a slog, lol.

The crypt seemed like a smart choice to test out high ground, since the fight started the player with high ground advantage in Patch 3.
Here we can clearly see high ground advantage is not being given to Gale.
Gale in the Crypt
Now we can see the result matches the UI, something in the logic/code has changed.
The following combat log

I chose to confirm this with Astarion, since he has dark vision.
Astarion's prediction in the UI
The result in the combat log
We see an expected outcome from the change.

Now check out what happens when Tav targets an enemy a greater distance away.
UI says it will be a normal attack
The game rolled the dice with advantage
It seems like there is a minimum distance check now for high ground advantage, and the UI is struggling to keep up with the change.

Here is Tav attacking a closer enemy from the same spot/elevation.
The UI
The Combat Log

Again, the attack rolls are consistent with positioning and the success rate has been what we would expect from Advantage/Normal/Disadvantage. The UI is a bit of a mess explaining what roll you will get.

Originally Posted by RBarbare
Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Now notice the UI when shooting an arrow from low ground
Smallest of Low Ground
Now look at the attack roll in the combat log grin Disadvantage was not applied.
The Combat Log

If you don't have percentage to-hits that are even multiples of 5, you have Advantage or Disadvantage. Those images clearly show that you are at disadvantage from low ground (56% isn't an even multiple of 5) and the combat log is what is messed up (it isn't showing the disadvantage).
What is really interesting is that with repeated tests, the outcome is what a player would expect if it was a normal attack roll. The combat log seems to be showing what was actually rolled by the game. It's definitely different from Patch 3 and combat has been more fun because of it.

Overall it seems like there are more checks in the game over whether advantage or disadvantage should be applied.

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Hmm, I'd take your word for it then, as you've clearly been testing the limits of this system far longer than anyone else in these forums have, ha.

I'm curious to see if anything comes of this in the next patch.

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Edit: I've chosen to do a thorough review of distributions for rolls shown in the UI as Low Ground, but get rolled at normal. And rolls shown as normal that the combat log rolls as high ground.

Here is the data for "UI lowground & Combat Log Normal":
I used the bugbear assassin and scorching ray to test.
UI for Scorching Ray, Gale's position relative to bugbear
Scorching Ray 1
Scorching Ray 2
Scorching Ray 3

I did use different sections of the bugbear, stomach, head, shoulders, etc. The UI and Combat Log were consistent in what they showed.
Here is the data after 156 scorching rays on the bugbear
Average: 7.8
Standard Deviation: 2.5
All frequencies were within two standard deviations.

The important takeaway is the shape of the histogram, it doesn't match what we would expect for disadvantage, it is a lot closer to what we would expect with normal attacks.

The surprises are how low 6, 7, 15, and 18 are but it would also make sense to weight the dice against four outcomes, to increase the change of 10 and 11. (Their frequencies were still within a normal distribution.)
***
Here is the review of attack rolls where "UI doesn't not show High Ground or any advantage, but the combat log has awarded advantage on the attack roll".
The frequency is in line with what we would expect to see with attacks rolled with advantage.
(This was done at the save file back at the Dank Crypt, N=42)

Last edited by DragonSnooz; 01/03/21 05:55 AM.
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Originally Posted by ArcanaJayne
5. Healing Pandirna in the storage building now no longer does anything. Is that on purpose?
Worked for me, so i presume it was bug.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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All sorts of four legged animals climbing ladders looks like a silly cartoon.

It's silly stuff like this that makes the game feel like a funny platform game rather than a credible RPG with a believable world.

I'm not saying an RPG needs to be all serious and realistic, but Larian have a bit too much of this silly nonsense in their DNA or they can't control it. The eating pigs heads in combat for a massive heal kind of stuff. Huge bears climbing ladders.


There are ways to be funny in the context of a realistic or even dark setting without breaking setting with silly cartoony stuff. Speaking of ladders..


Last edited by 1varangian; 27/02/21 09:38 AM.
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Yeah it does look a bit dumb, but remember druids don’t lose their intelligence when they wild shape. They could navigate a ladder in beast form, albeit in most cases it would be slower than when a humanoid. Of course, some ladders are not going to take the weight of a polar bear!

On another note, since I haven’t had time to get into patch 4 yet... are we still able to change our prepared spells at any time that suits us? Or is it locked to long rests now like it should be?

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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
are we still able to change our prepared spells at any time that suits us? Or is it locked to long rests now like it should be?
We are.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
#760578 27/02/21 04:10 PM
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First off, hello all, been a while. Glad to be back after a long break from EA, but I came back to play the new patch so here is what I've experienced so far.

Like to list off for one, Thank you, Larian! for listening to the group of us that said drow should have Keen Senses like all the other elf people. Equality for all elves! grin

I feel listened to, but I know I was not the only one asking for this to be added. Again thank you for listening!

Now for the druid, I actually am enjoying it some. It is still kind of buggy, but I like where you went with it. If you keep this up I am really going to enjoy all the classes once they are implemented to the game.

I like how more class dialogue and situational advantages for certain classes is now important to the game.

I like how you changed up some scenes, such as with the tiefling thieves ran by Mol and changed it up some story wise.

Really enjoy that the druid has advantages in the scene with talking down Kagha, which I already noted I just wanted to show how much I really do appreciate the effort of listening to the community about adding in more diversity for work arounds and creativity.

Also really enjoying that Speak with the Dead cutscene to add more depth to the game. Now its not quite as boring to talking to dead people. wink

I like the new spells added to the game, the quality of life changes really speed things up and don't bog down game play too much, and liking the over all effort you have put in so far into the game.

There are of course some things that got busted, which are to be expected in EA. Some cutscenes got either busted or lost, like the one with Shadowheart at the gate when you first talk with Zevlor. I'm still kind of at the start of it all, but really the things I found were mainly positive and very few negatives.

I got to say, I am looking forward to playing another wizard play through, but you made me want to play a druid, which I loved the idea of playing a druid and finally got the chance to really get a solid story with one and it not be totally cheesy. Thanks again for that!

I hope the rest of you, the community, enjoying the new changes as much as I am. The game really has come a long way from the start, and while more work I will concede, still needs to be done. If Larian keeps progressing in this direction I think we will all be enjoying the full game greatly!

Last edited by Ghost King; 27/02/21 04:13 PM.
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I can confirm that so far as I have played I haven't gotten all the camp scenes as of yet. Didn't get the Gale mirror image scene at the very least. However, after Astarion feeds on you, you do get the scene with the camp the next day as it was intended. So kind of better, but it still needs work.

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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Yeah it does look a bit dumb, but remember druids don’t lose their intelligence when they wild shape. They could navigate a ladder in beast form, albeit in most cases it would be slower than when a humanoid. Of course, some ladders are not going to take the weight of a polar bear!

On another note, since I haven’t had time to get into patch 4 yet... are we still able to change our prepared spells at any time that suits us? Or is it locked to long rests now like it should be?
Dogs in the real world are intelligent enough to climb ladders. But physiologically, just like most animals, they just can't.

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I haven't gotten to the tiefling party yet, but I've seen elsewhere that the romance scenes have been partially added back. I did notice that a couple of camp scenes didn't trigger when they were supposed to, one for Gale and one for Astarion, even though I've been resting often, so those issues obviously aren't fixed yet.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Yeah it does look a bit dumb, but remember druids don’t lose their intelligence when they wild shape. They could navigate a ladder in beast form, albeit in most cases it would be slower than when a humanoid. Of course, some ladders are not going to take the weight of a polar bear!

On another note, since I haven’t had time to get into patch 4 yet... are we still able to change our prepared spells at any time that suits us? Or is it locked to long rests now like it should be?
Dogs in the real world are intelligent enough to climb ladders. But physiologically, just like most animals, they just can't.

If they get it in their mind to do it, or a human teaches them, a dog can climb some kinds of ladders I think? I might have seen one do it when I was very young but I might be remembering wrong. Animals are capable of a lot, my cat was clever enough to open my door and turn on my computer so she could watch my fish screensaver.

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Can anyone tell me if they fixed the Shadowheart cutscene bug? Would really like to see that scene.

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The Devil's sight invocation is still not interacting properly with magical darkness. The "immunity from blindness" feature doesn't change the fact that darkness still acts as a barrier to ranged attacks for a Warlock with Devil's Sight, so you still cannot shoot through it with eldritch blast or any spell. This is not how the invocation is supposed to interact with the darkness spell or any magical darkness. It should essentially be as if there is nothing there for the warlock. A warlock with Devil's Sight should be able to stand in the center of their darkness and fire off eldritch blasts without having to jump out of the darkness every time they want to attack. I thank Larian Studios for attempting to rectify this problem with the most recent patch, but it needs another update.

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Thanks! I was hoping that might be it.


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The words he speaks are true, heed him Larian smile

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Just to confirm what I wrote above, I got to Astarion's romance scene and the first and last bits are there, but the middle is part is under construction again. Gale's also has a very brief "under construction" scene in the middle (I'm not sure what's supposed to go there, it's so quick and the scene otherwise seems more or less complete).

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