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Patch 4 notes:

"Witch Bolt now electrifies any surfaces the target is standing in."

Really? We're adding MORE effects?

Explosive barrels and surface effects aren't "clever" when you use them in every single encounter, it's lazy design. It was fine in DOS1/2 because the mechanics were designed and balanced around it, but by their ham-fisted application in BG3, it just makes me think that Larian hasn't any other ideas and is a one-trick pony.

Look, each to their own, but its becoming very clear to me that Larian has already decided they just want to make a D&D mod for DOS2 rather than an actual D&D or Baldur's Gate game. Obviosuly the "Baldur's Gate III" title was purely a marketing move, because so far I've seen very little to justify this game claiming the BG1/2 heritage. I probably would have been less disappointed if this game had just ditched the "Baldur's Gate" name and sold itself as a D&D-related product.

Last edited by Fat Barry; 25/02/21 09:19 PM.
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Well.... at least Witch Bolt is a proper spell and not a cantrip.

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Does anyone tried ? I'd be surprised if "ANY" surfaces was electrified.

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I'll test it tonight, but for the rest of these issues, it's fixable with mods.

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To be fair, of all the spells in 5e that could use a buff, Witch Bolt is pretty high on the list. I'm not saying that I agree with how they buffed it, but at least this isn't a case of buffing an already strong spell... *cough* Flaming sphere *cough*

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Originally Posted by Evandir
To be fair, of all the spells in 5e that could use a buff, Witch Bolt is pretty high on the list. I'm not saying that I agree with how they buffed it, but at least this isn't a case of buffing an already strong spell... *cough* Flaming sphere *cough*
Agreed with most of this. I want to playtest Witch Bolt before I develop an opinion on the change.

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They did remove cantrip surface effects. Maybe the point was that cantrips shouldn't have surface effects while consumable spells should. In which case the change in Witch Bolt is just a consistency move. However, Witch Bolt is essentially a cantrip during one combat, since you can recast without a spell slot if the target dies.

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Some spells should generate surface effects if it is appropriate to do so in the 5E rules. One of the newer spells Frost Fingers, from Rime of the Frostmaiden, specifies at the end of the description:

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The cold freezes nonmagical liquids in the area that aren’t being worn or carried.

In this case I’d be happy for it to cause a surface effect.

Last edited by LukasPrism; 26/02/21 12:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Does anyone tried ? I'd be surprised if "ANY" surfaces was electrified.

It doesnt seem to be any, in my testing. Probably only water?

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Originally Posted by Evandir
To be fair, of all the spells in 5e that could use a buff, Witch Bolt is pretty high on the list. I'm not saying that I agree with how they buffed it, but at least this isn't a case of buffing an already strong spell... *cough* Flaming sphere *cough*

Flaming sphere creates surfaces. Not joking.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Evandir
To be fair, of all the spells in 5e that could use a buff, Witch Bolt is pretty high on the list. I'm not saying that I agree with how they buffed it, but at least this isn't a case of buffing an already strong spell... *cough* Flaming sphere *cough*

Flaming sphere creates surfaces. Not joking.

The spell definition.

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A 5-foot-diameter sphere of fire appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within range and lasts for the duration. Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 2d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

As a bonus action, you can move the sphere up to 30 feet. If you ram the sphere into a creature, that creature must make the saving throw against the sphere’s damage, and the sphere stops moving this turn.

When you move the sphere, you can direct it over barriers up to 5 feet tall and jump it across pits up to 10 feet wide. The sphere ignites flammable objects not being worn or carried, and it sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

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So, I guess this one should set things on fire.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
The sphere ignites flammable objects not being worn or carried
You can argue if ground made of stone or soil is flammable. Maybe with patches of dry grass or bushes.

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I don't really mind surface effects though I think they should be toned back a little bit.

Notably too many combats have an exploitative environmental factor which makes it an easy decision to ignite or electrify a surface. Arguably there should be a few less and to take advantage of surfaces two characters would need to do spells, one casting grease and then the other casting a fireball on it for example. It would reward dnd creativity and spell usage without forcing it to be the primary form of engagement with the game.

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To be honest i wish they'd go all the way and just make it a cantrip. I don't know if witch bolt is any better in DnD, but in the game i don't see why it should ever be used over fire bolt/ray of frost, or instead of magic missile.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Evandir
To be fair, of all the spells in 5e that could use a buff, Witch Bolt is pretty high on the list. I'm not saying that I agree with how they buffed it, but at least this isn't a case of buffing an already strong spell... *cough* Flaming sphere *cough*

Flaming sphere creates surfaces. Not joking.

The spell definition.

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A 5-foot-diameter sphere of fire appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within range and lasts for the duration. Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 2d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

As a bonus action, you can move the sphere up to 30 feet. If you ram the sphere into a creature, that creature must make the saving throw against the sphere’s damage, and the sphere stops moving this turn.

When you move the sphere, you can direct it over barriers up to 5 feet tall and jump it across pits up to 10 feet wide. The sphere ignites flammable objects not being worn or carried, and it sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

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So, I guess this one should set things on fire.

True all. It's a great spell. But the description does not say leaves behind a flammable surface like a DOS2 fire snail -- which is what it is doing.

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I actually found the old surface-cantrips to be more fun than the current ones that are very basic (e.g. deal X damage). There was some gameplay around surfaces like combining it with CC that I enjoyed. So I hope more complex spells including surface-spells become part of the game - maybe specially shapes surfaces.

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Originally Posted by Meril
I actually found the old surface-cantrips to be more fun than the current ones that are very basic (e.g. deal X damage).
That's what cantrips are supposed to be, though. Level 0 spells that don't cost a spell slot and can be spammed by wizards so they don't have to have to run up to the enemy and hit them in the face with their puny mage baby arms when they have run out of spell slots.

Originally Posted by Meril
There was some gameplay around surfaces like combining it with CC that I enjoyed. So I hope more complex spells including surface-spells become part of the game - maybe specially shapes surfaces.
There are surely some spells that can be added. Wall of Fire for example comes to mind.

Last edited by marajango; 26/02/21 07:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Meril
I actually found the old surface-cantrips to be more fun than the current ones that are very basic (e.g. deal X damage).
That's what cantrips are supposed to be, though. Level 0 spells that don't cost a spell slot and can be spammed by wizards so they don't have to have to run up to the enemy and hit them in the face with their puny mage baby arms when they have run out of spell slots.

Originally Posted by Meril
There was some gameplay around surfaces like combining it with CC that I enjoyed. So I hope more complex spells including surface-spells become part of the game - maybe specially shapes surfaces.
There are surely some spells that can be added. Wall of Fire for example comes to mind.

I want more faithfulness to 5e but if Larian wants the gameplay to be more like DOS, they should bring back the surface effects for cantrips. I mean that. There’s no reason to take them away.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 26/02/21 07:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I want more faithfulness to 5e but if Larian wants the gameplay to be more like DOS, they should bring back the surface effects for cantrips. I mean that. There’s no reason to take them away.
Unlimited AOE DOT's in a resource based combat system is not a reason?

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Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I want more faithfulness to 5e but if Larian wants the gameplay to be more like DOS, they should bring back the surface effects for cantrips. I mean that. There’s no reason to take them away.
Unlimited AOE DOT's in a resource based combat system is not a reason?

Is it a resource based combat system? I’m hardly seeing it.

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